Topic: Used minivan advice...?

[curls]

Its been a while since I last posted here, but my wife is now bugging me that she wants to sell the 2002 Protege5 and get a minivan.

She runs a home daycare and would need a van capable of transporting 7 kids plus herself. Probably 3 infant carriers, and some booster seats.  So only vans with 3rd row bench and 2nd row seating-for-three would be acceptable. I know that some models of Odyssey have the 2nd row middle-seat (which is removable), and that the Sienna can have 8 seats in some configurations.

We have upwards of $25K to spend but obviously, the cheaper the better.  I'd rather stay clear of domestics as too many people I know with Caravans (new and not-so-new) have had major problems, or a slew of minor problems to the degree that they've sold it at a loss to replace it and be happier with an import.

What makes/models should we look at, and what year(s) for each? I know Toyota changesd the Sienna from a 3.3L to a 3.5L (with better fuel efficiency and more power) in 2007. But I think a 2007 Sienna w/ seating for 8 might be out of our budget at this point.

Thanks in advance.

[airbalancer]

you do not need a minvan, you need a van

[curls]

Yeah, I thought about it again after posting this and realized, "there's no f'n way that's all going to fit".  So I clarified with my wife and she *supposedly* meant that it needs to carry 6 people (5 kids, 1 adult), as at least two of the kids (one of ours, and one daycare kid) will be in school 1/2 days starting this fall.  Apparently she only wants the van to be used for daycare kids when the two older ones are at school.  So, that makes more sense - fitting 4-5 kids in a van isn't unheard of.

[Ontariodriver]

Ford E series might be the way to go. They seem to be the best in the domestic market.

[articsteve]

Ford E series might be the way to go. They seem to be the best in the domestic market.

But it will kill you in gas costs.

What about a one owner 2004 Nissan Quest? 

[Ontariodriver]

Ford E series might be the way to go. They seem to be the best in the domestic market.

But it will kill you in gas costs.

What about a one owner 2004 Nissan Quest? 

Oh yer these really drink....I think he wants something reliable Nissan Quest are not.

Verdict

Highs: Decent used prices; good performance and cool looks
Lows: Unfortunate reliability history

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2008/01/31/used-vehicle-review-nissan-quest-2004-2007.htm

[articsteve]

Ford E series might be the way to go. They seem to be the best in the domestic market.

But it will kill you in gas costs.

What about a one owner 2004 Nissan Quest? 

Oh yer these really drink....I think he wants something reliable Nissan Quest are not.

Verdict

Highs: Decent used prices; good performance and cool looks
Lows: Unfortunate reliability history

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2008/01/31/used-vehicle-review-nissan-quest-2004-2007.htm

Reliability has been less than perfect, but from the looks of it, most of the problems are with body hardware and electrical accessories, and not the mechanicals. One apparently common issue is a water leak from the headliner near the top of the windshield. According to posts at QuestDriver.com, the problem is linked to blocked drain passages that are designed to route water on the roof down through the body structure and out of the vehicle. In the cases of at least a few owners, the water instead leaks into the vehicle through the sunglasses holder in the headliner.

This of course is based on Mr. Chase scanning internet forums and not from any actual experience.  Mr. Chase's recent critical review of the 4 Runner being a gas guzzler was exposed once it was pointed out that he was referring to the V8 4 Runner, not the V6 which represents 99% of the market. 

Visit any brand specific internet site and it is primarily all about problems.

The 2004 Quest has the Maxima powertrain, without question top tier in the industry.  If after 5 years a vehicle has no significant issues, and if those minor issues are fixed under warranty, then it's all about the money.  What your looking for is a powertrain that can deliver huge mileage without blowing up.   

 In terms of exterior and interior size, the Quest is the biggest minivan on the market. This has its good and bad points. Passenger room and cargo room are enormous for a “mini” van, and its long wheelbase and wide track provide a comfortable ride and stable handling. On the other hand, the Quest is more difficult to park and maneuver in traffic than smaller minivans. Still, one of the things I discovered while driving the Quest is that it is surprisingly easy to maneuver (more on that in a minute).

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2004/12/12/test-drive-2004-nissan-quest-se.htm
 

[tortoise]

The Quest immediately came to mind.  Decent reliability, good power and should be less expensive that the Sienna and Odessey.

They are kinda goofy looking though.

What about the Mazda MPV?  Again, decent reliability in a more manageable package.  Heck, you could probably get away with the Mazda5 if one of those kids can ride in the front seat.

[Ontariodriver]

The 2004 Quest has the Maxima powertrain, without question top tier in the industry.  If after 5 years a vehicle has

Oh yer I agree can't go to wrong with a Maxima. These vans are massive. Dirt cheap, so should suite them.

[curls]

We won't buy another Mazda.  The Protege5 is rotting (even if it has been Krown'd annually).  My sisters' P5 is rotting. My mother-in-law's Mazda3 is rotting and falling apart, and my sister-in-law's Mazda3 Sport is eating wheel bearings for lunch.  Their parts are expensive and their quality is crap.

My wife dislikes the Quest - too weird looking. She's driving it so its really her call on the styling.  I know she wants to test out the Odyssey and Sienna, and possibly the Sedona. No Caravans though.

What are everyones' thoughts on a 2009 Sienna (US vehicle) that was a daily rental for less than one year? Price is good, seller is a good friend of ours (they work for a dealership in Ottawa), comes with factory warranty, etc.

[Trainman]

curls: I too have not been around here too much lately but as we have a Sienna I thought I would throw in my 2 cents.

Our 2004 Sienna is driven mostly by my wife and she is very happy with it.  With the exception of the radiator (that was replaced under warranty) and some squeaks from the sliding doors (fixed with generous amounts of silicon spray on the weather stripping) it has been a very good vehicle.

She has found it to be very easy to drive, has a great turning circle, very tight and can get decent fuel economy (we have averaged 34-35 MPG on the highway for many trips).  Value of our 2004 is about $15,000 or so, maybe a bit less.

If you are buying used, check out these:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2010/03/25/used-vehicle-review-toyota-sienna-2004-2010.htm

http://siennachat.com/forum/index.php

Note some issues with the 3.5l motor, notably the oil line.  Easy fix if you get it done before it spews oil allover the place and potentially damages the motor.  And the bells and whistles seem a bit more prone to failure, such as power sliding doors.  We have the base CE so do not have those issues. And make sure the timing belt has been done if its due.

The Odyssey would also be a good choice, just make sure any transmission issues have been dealt with on the earlier 5 speed ones.

.... Heck, you could probably get away with the Mazda5 if one of those kids can ride in the front seat.

Are you serious?  A kid (from a daycare no less) in the front seat of an airbag equipped vehicle?  That is one of the most inane and dangerous suggestions I have seen posted on CTC.  The evidence is highly conclusive that such a practice, in the event the airbag deploys, will result in serious injury or death to the child.  Don't do it!

[mrthompson]

Perhaps there is an option to turn off the passenger side air bag?  Or is there a sensor in the seat?

[Arthur Dent]

Perhaps there is an option to turn off the passenger side air bag?  Or is there a sensor in the seat?

Our Quest has a sensor.

[articsteve]

Note some issues with the 3.5l motor, notably the oil line.  Easy fix if you get it done before it spews oil allover the place and potentially damages the motor.

Toyota is fixing those on the house. 

[tortoise]

Are you serious?  A kid (from a daycare no less) in the front seat of an airbag equipped vehicle?  That is one of the most inane and dangerous suggestions I have seen posted on CTC.  The evidence is highly conclusive that such a practice, in the event the airbag deploys, will result in serious injury or death to the child.  Don't do it!

That's why I added the "if".  Rereading the original post it looks like they will be in carriers or booster seats - so defintiely too young.  He mentioned that "one of our" kids would be counted and I wasn't sure of his/her age.   

What if the airbag can be deactivated?  Is the concern still there? A lot of vehicles have a key operated switch to deactivate the airbag.

Also, at what age can kids ride in the front seat?

So if the Quest is out you're down to the three you mentioned.  Reviews for the Sedona (and presumably the Entourage) were good but they commented that it was rather heavy.  Presumably fuel economy won't be up to the standards of the two Japanese vans.

And I hear you on the rotting Mazda syndrome.  Mechanically our car is in good shape but rust is starting to take over.  Frustrating indeed.  Also I think the Protege's were better built cars than the 3's so I'm weary of newer Mazdas.

[curls]

The Quest shouldn't be "out" in my opinion. Maybe I need to show her one or two in person and stop having her rely on spying on them in parking lots, to make a decision.  I like the VQ powertrain.  The interior does look a lot stranger and less mainstream than both the Honda and Toyota offerings, though, but maybe it's worth the extra savings...?

Much fewer Quest's around than both Hondas or Toyota's here in Ottawa, both in terms of on the road, and, on the car classifieds.

[curls]

What is everyones' thoughts on a 2005 Odyssey EX w/ 93K km. Extended warranty to 160,000km (assuming 7 year, so 1.5 -2 yrs remaining) included, asking $19,000 (private, saves us the 5% GST if we buy before July 1st). 

2005 is the first model year of the 2005-2010 Odyssey, but from what I've read, shouldn't be any less reliable than the 2006/07/08's as it was tightly based on the 2004's, but with an updated transmission with much less problems than the 1999-2004 auto trannies.

There is another one, a 2006 EX-L, fully loaded minus the DVD system, includes some Honda factory upgrades, tow package, etc... for $22K (private sale).  Its got 66K km but is a USDM vehicle so there's no warranty in effect here in Canada. 

Another option is even newer - 2007 EX, with all options we'd want (no leather which is nice but not necessary), comes with winter and summer tires (both sets are 3+ years old), but has 116K km's, dealer maintained, safetied, brand new brakes. Asking $18,900 (private sale).

Which would you choose? Older first model year with 30K more km's, a few less options and cloth seats, but extended warranty, for $3K cheaper than a year newer, fewer km's, more options, but no warranty? Or the even newer one with the most KM's, out of warranty, but is the cheapest and come with winter tires (which we'd like anyhow and would probably buy this fall anyways if it didn't come with them)?

[tortoise]

Is it a Honda warranty?

[curls]

Not 100% sure -- will be finding out this week.  Apparently the one with the extended warranty has Blizzak's, but he didn't mention if that was in addition to a set of all-seasons. I would hope so, but... ?

[mmret]

I'd avoid the $22k one. No warranty AND more expensive? That $3k can go a long way to tires, maintenance, etc.

Aside from all the wheel/tire variability I'd just take whichever one (2005 vs. 2007) had more red dots in CR. I'd assume the 2007 but one never knows...were there any significant model year changes?).

Other thoughts...
What year was it that Honda had all the transmission troubles?
2 years is a long time, but 23k more mileage isn't all that big of a deal compared to variability in maintenance. Then again the older one has warranty.

Overall I think I'd lean towards the high mileage 07 to be honest, hopefully rely on Honda's reputation of making V6 Accord powertrains that don't blow up, at least after a few iterations of working out the bugs...