Author Topic: Stop the 407 ETR's Abuse of Power! (Read 11097 times)

TammyFlores · « **on:** May 14, 2010, 11:06:25 pm »

I just started a facebook group called "Stop the 407 ETR's Abuse of Power!" Please join and help me do something about their improper billing practices and the governments seeming helplessness. The government has been aware for a long time about the issues, but acts helpless to do something. It's time they legislate! Please help bring change to the 407's ways!

articsteve · « **Reply #1 on:** May 15, 2010, 02:52:18 am »

You're a little late. The Abuse of Power occurred when the Ontario CONS sold a roadway that cost 100 BILLION over a period of 30 years in property acquisition.

The actual road construction cost 3 BILLION. The taxpayer's got 7 BILLION. The annual profits are unknown, but must be in the BILLIONS.

Was that it then

NOPE.

Mr. Flaherty, the MORON that is now running the country's finances, signed, and only GOD himself knows why, a non competition clause for a period of 99 years.

The clause states that the Ontario government cannot build any type of lite rail or any form of transportation system on the property. For those of you not familiar with the 407 it is a very wide piece of land that runs thru the entire length of the GTA and would be perfect for future high speed rail systems.

Possibly the largest Government to Private Sector giveaway in North America. Fortunately I rarely need to use it.

tpl · « **Reply #2 on:** May 15, 2010, 05:39:49 am »

I use the 407 and all expressways should be like that. Tolled and well maintained.
Only two things wrong with the road itself: It is a bit expensive but as I don't use it to commute I don't care.
The speed limit should be higher as Bob Rae was going to allow but the OPP persuaded him otherwise.

As for the billing. Seems to work just fine nowadays.
I do think that the government should not be permitted to withhold the plate renewal for non-payment of tolls. Privately owned road so the owners should have to use the courts.

Artic I do agree about the terrible deal made with Ferrovia (?) when the road was sold. Because of all that fuss it is taking forever to finish the road. IMO at the western side it should loop around Hamilton and go all the way down to one of the border crossings and at the eastern end all the way to Ottawa or at least Kingston.

I don't work for Ferrovia and own no shares in the company.

sparky · « **Reply #3 on:** May 15, 2010, 07:55:09 am »

It's expensive, but it makes the worst part of North America's worst expressway disappear, so I pay the price when I have to get past Toronto on my way to somewhere else. Anything's better than the freakin' 401.

safristi · « **Reply #4 on:** May 15, 2010, 11:55:18 am »

..There is a 407

TammyFlores · « **Reply #5 on:** May 15, 2010, 12:53:55 pm »

Quote from: tpl on May 15, 2010, 05:39:49 am

I use the 407 and all expressways should be like that. Tolled and well maintained.
Only two things wrong with the road itself: It is a bit expensive but as I don't use it to commute I don't care.
The speed limit should be higher as Bob Rae was going to allow but the OPP persuaded him otherwise.

As for the billing. Seems to work just fine nowadays.
I do think that the government should not be permitted to withhold the plate renewal for non-payment of tolls. Privately owned road so the owners should have to use the courts.

Artic I do agree about the terrible deal made with Ferrovia (?) when the road was sold. Because of all that fuss it is taking forever to finish the road. IMO at the western side it should loop around Hamilton and go all the way down to one of the border crossings and at the eastern end all the way to Ottawa or at least Kingston.

I don't work for Ferrovia and own no shares in the company.

My problem is the lack of burden of proof. They can make a claim legitimate or not. They don't have to provide you with proof that you owe the money. Without going into details, the 407 can send you a bill, out of the blue, with an amount on it with no details or background where the numbers are coming from. Then when you request the details, they don't provide them, put you in plate denial and try to force you to pay for something you have no idea what it is about. If the government wants to do the dirty work for a private entity then I think a higher level of proof should exist.

TammyFlores · « **Reply #6 on:** May 15, 2010, 12:58:12 pm »

Quote from: sparky on May 15, 2010, 07:55:09 am

It's expensive, but it makes the worst part of North America's worst expressway disappear, so I pay the price when I have to get past Toronto on my way to somewhere else. Anything's better than the freakin' 401.

Most don't mind paying a bit for convience. But let's say you traveled on it... they never billed you for one of your trips and then 5 years after the fact you get a bill with no details saying you owe x amount of dollars? Or you show up at the Ministry of Transportation and see a ridiculous amount that they say you owe in order to renew your sticker? You haven't got a clue what it's all about, but it's there. Is that acceptable?

airbalancer · « **Reply #7 on:** May 15, 2010, 01:00:09 pm »

Get NS plates , they dont pay LOL

TammyFlores · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2010, 01:03:40 pm »

Quote from: articsteve on May 15, 2010, 02:52:18 am

You're a little late. The Abuse of Power occurred when the Ontario CONS sold a roadway that cost 100 BILLION over a period of 30 years in property acquisition.

The actual road construction cost 3 BILLION. The taxpayer's got 7 BILLION. The annual profits are unknown, but must be in the BILLIONS.

Was that it then NOPE.

Mr. Flaherty, the MORON that is now running the country's finances, signed, and only GOD himself knows why, a non competition clause for a period of 99 years. The clause states that the Ontario government cannot build any type of lite rail or any form of transportation system on the property. For those of you not familiar with the 407 it is a very wide piece of land that runs thru the entire length of the GTA and would be perfect for future high speed rail systems.

Possibly the largest Government to Private Sector giveaway in North America. Fortunately I rarely need to use it.

Point is that it's here and there's a problem. The government has known the issues since 2004 and they try to play helpless. So what, we roll over and let them walk all over us? OR do you say to the government you caused this mess, clean it up? I know people will say it was this government or that government, but there is a goverment right now that has a responsibility to make sure it's not playing a role in a private corporation's abuse of the power they gave them.

TammyFlores · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2010, 01:05:01 pm »

Quote from: airbalancer on May 15, 2010, 01:00:09 pm

Get NS plates , they dont pay LOL

My MPP said change the ownership of the car. Although that would enable me to drive, that doesn't fix the problem.

Sir Osis of Liver · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2010, 01:07:41 pm »

I am continuously thankful that I've never had to live anywhere near the GTA.

overtakeyouintheleftlane · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2010, 10:18:34 pm »

Been using it since 2003, never had a billing problem. Love the highway. Use it all the time coming back from the USA.

99 Silver · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2010, 05:21:11 pm »

I used to use it a lot a few years back, but only occasionally now. I've never had any billing problems.

I like the fact that it is a toll road as it keeps the traffic count lower than it would be otherwise. I don't mind paying for it.

Allen · « **Reply #13 on:** May 16, 2010, 06:43:05 pm »

I have also used it since the begining and have never had a billing issue, don't mind paying for it in order to avoid the 401 during rush hour

TammyFlores · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2010, 11:02:09 am »

I am glad to see some people are having good experiences. I would hope that most have good experiences traveling on the 407. However, let's say you stopped traveling on it for a while and 5 years later you get a bill. No explanation or anything. Just one big bill. Do you think you have the right to know what's happening? By that time they've racked up interest and late fees. Would you have a problem with that?

Some don't mind choosing to pay a bit for convince. So you make the choice to pay a bit for convince and traveled on the 407. Let's take this senerio a step further and say you get a bill, out of the blue for hundreds or even thousands of dollars. There's no details, just an amount. Are you entitled to know what they are trying to bill you for? If you then realize they gave you someone else's bill/account... would you just pay it because they said so? OR would you want justification for what they are charging you for? This issue is not about choice, it's about an abuse of power.

Here in Ontario, the 407 can put you in plate denial if you don't pay their bill. The government will honor their request to deny your sticker just because the 407 says so. They don't have to provide proof that the bill actually exists. Is that OK? The government is on record of knowing about the problems that the 407 has with it's billing, but yet isn't doing anything about it. This is a gross abuse of power and shouldn't be allowed in Canada. The government is not helpless here. I believe that they, as landlords, have a responsibility to do something if the public is being harmed by their tenant. They have to stop passing the buck and fix the mess they caused.

People will say it was this government or that government's fault. I say the point is that there's a problem and it is the government's responsibility to stop turning a blind eye to it and do something about it. At the very lease they can tell the 407 that they need to give it's customers full disclosure and deal with them instead of abusing the power the government gave them.

gta_driver · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2010, 11:05:06 am »

I use the 407 often.

I have had some minor issues with billing, but they've been resolved promptly and courteously with their call centre. Everytime, they've made a mistake on my billing they've apologized.

I find the road is better maintained, generally faster then the non toll highways, cleaner and is cleared much nicer then the other 400 series toronto highways of snow and ice in the winter. A few years ago. my daughter (then a baby) was fussing in the backseat and she had to pull over to the side to see what was going on. A 407ETR patrol truck appeared, asked what was wrong and then parked with emergency lights on protecting my wife's car till my wife was done with my daughter. More recently one of the 407ETR patrol trucks helped my dad change a flat faster than a tow truck could appear.

I also find the cars on the 407 ETR are better maintained and the driver's much more courteous. People leave the left
lane for passing instead of driving. Driver's will actually allow you to merge or change lanes unlike the 401 or QEW/Gardiner.

TammyFlores · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2010, 11:17:33 am »

Quote from: gta_driver on May 17, 2010, 11:05:06 am

I use the 407 often.

I have had some minor issues with billing, but they've been resolved promptly and courteously with their call centre. Everytime, they've made a mistake on my billing they've apologized.

I find the road is better maintained, generally faster then the non toll highways, cleaner and is cleared much nicer then the other 400 series toronto highways of snow and ice in the winter. A few years ago. my daughter (then a baby) was fussing in the backseat and she had to pull over to the side to see what was going on. A 407ETR patrol truck appeared, asked what was wrong and then parked with emergency lights on protecting my wife's car till my wife was done with my daughter. More recently one of the 407ETR patrol trucks helped my dad change a flat faster than a tow truck could appear.

I also find the cars on the 407 ETR are better maintained and the driver's much more courteous. People leave the left
lane for passing instead of driving. Driver's will actually allow you to merge or change lanes unlike the 401 or QEW/Gardiner.

I am glad to hear you have had a wonderful experience. I wish I could say the same. I have used the highway because it's convenient. However, the billing issues I have had with them are not minor. They are major. I was polite in the beginning, but they refused to disclose all the documentation behind an account they decided, 5 years after the fact, that I should have owned. They were billing someone else and then decided they should have been billing me, even though I already had an account with them, using that exact same plate. I have no problem paying for something that I have used. However, I am not paying for interest and late fees that accumulated because of their mistake. I have a problem with their lack of willingness to fully disclose all the documentation I requested. Further, to make matters worse, I just received a bill from them for an account that I haven't had since 2006 and they are refusing to disclose what it's for. They feel they don't have to. Now is this right? I don't think so and I'm not alone.

Vmango · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2010, 12:09:19 pm »

Used it this past weekend.

Speed limit should be higher. Nothing like paying (a lot) to use a road and see hidden speed traps.

Other than that it's fine

mrthompson · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2010, 12:14:11 pm »

I do not know the full story, but my uncle is driving unlicensed because of a dispute with the 407 ETR.

TammyFlores · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2010, 12:17:10 pm »

Quote from: mrthompson on May 17, 2010, 12:14:11 pm

I do not know the full story, but my uncle is driving unlicensed because of a dispute with the 407 ETR.

Join the Facebook page "Stop the 407 ETR's Abuse of Power! I found 3 other groups so far and am encouraging everyone to ban together because what they are doing is a gross abuse of the power the government gave them and needs to be stopped.