Topic: Test Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata Limited

[Shnak]

Fair enough, though I must say that other than items bouncing around if not properly tied down, I really don't think the other points you mentionned are all that important. I've never had a wagon per say, but our Golf didn't let any more road noise in than our Jetta did, and my current Sportage is very quiet on highways, very similar to our Jetta was. Decreased body rigidity, possibly, but do you really care about body rigidity when talking about compact and mid-size sedans?? Items getting too hot compared to a trunk? What are you carrying around, steaks? Give me a break. Besides, vehicles of all formats are really well served by having a dark enough tint in all its rear windows; filters out a lot of the sun's rays.

In the end, what it comes down to is personnal preference, like is always the case.

Not that important to you, where you live, how you drive, etc.

Road noise was noticeably louder in the Legacy wagon than the Legacy sedan.  And while decreased body rigidity doesn't matter for A-to-B transportation, if you want a sports sedan or sportwagon, yes it starts to matter.

But the real deal-breakers for me were the temperature stuff, which you scoff at.

In a Medford summer (which often hits 100 degrees Farenheit or above), my Legacy 2.5i wagon's air conditioner could not bring the car's temperature down to a comfortable level unless it was at full blast (four out of four fan speed), at which point I had trouble hearing the radio.  With the Jetta, 2 out of 4 often does the trick.  I know that there's multiple variables at play here (maybe the Jetta's AC is stronger regardless of body style), but the fact is, 50% more glass letting the sun in and 50% more volume to be cooled = a LOT harder for the AC unit.

After sitting in the sun for an hour, everything on the interior of the Legacy wagon was hot enough to burn you when you touched it.  It was remarkable how hot everything got.  As a consequence, I didn't feel comfortable leaving electronics in the back of the car.  I don't worry about leaving my laptop in the Jetta's trunk, though.  The same goes with food, chocolates, just about anything perishable.  Yes, I do indeed carry food in my car, and yes, I sometimes need to stop between when I get the food and when I reach my final destination.

I don't know how you can take the Legacy Wagon's shortcoming and say every single wagon out there has a poor A/C system, terrible road noise, etc. Those sound like problems specific to the Legacy Wagon, not problems with the wagon format.

And about leaving perishable foods in your car while you aren't in it, why?! Besides, even if you did want to do that, I'm sure good window tinting would resolve most of that problem for you.

There are a few valid complaints about wagons in my opinion; cargo moving around if not tied properly, cargo being visible when car is parked and body rigidity. The first two are easily remedied by tying down the cargo and having a cargo cover and the last one, well all that means is that wagons don't make for great sports car. Other stuff like road noise, harder for A/C system, cargo getting warm are all things that I attribute directory to the car maker wanting to cheapen out on basic stuff.

In the end, it all depends on what you want/need. I see the appeal of pretty much all formats of vehicles, including sedans and wagons.

[quadzilla]

Take a Golf, put four adults in it, then see how many grocery bags you can put behind the back seat without obscuring the rear window.  Now see how many grocery bags you can put in the trunk of a Jetta.

Sorry, that is a horrible argument. Obviously a space that is larger will hold more items than a smaller one. 

Compare a Jetta wagon (now Golf wagon) to the Jetta sedan. I'm sure its pretty close between the two.

[Mitlov]

Take a Golf, put four adults in it, then see how many grocery bags you can put behind the back seat without obscuring the rear window.  Now see how many grocery bags you can put in the trunk of a Jetta.

Sorry, that is a horrible argument. Obviously a space that is larger will hold more items than a smaller one. 

Compare a Jetta wagon (now Golf wagon) to the Jetta sedan. I'm sure its pretty close between the two.

You read it wrong, or I wasn't clear enough because I didn't realize they're now calling the Jetta wagon the "Golf wagon."  I'm comparing the Golf hatchback (five-door hatch) to the Jetta wagon.  That comment was from the hatchback-versus-sedan comparison, NOT the wagon-versus sedan debate that broke out later.

EDIT:  I see the confusion now.  It's still called the "Jetta Sportswagen" in the States, and the term "Golf" is reserved for the hatchbacks (3-door and 5-door).  That's what I was talking about when I said you can fit more cargo area behind the rear seat in a Jetta than in a Golf.

[Mitlov]

I don't know how you can take the Legacy Wagon's shortcoming and say every single wagon out there has a poor A/C system, terrible road noise, etc. Those sound like problems specific to the Legacy Wagon, not problems with the wagon format.

Whether or not it was so bad as to be completely inadequate is specific to an individual model.  But it's just a simple matter of physics that it's going to be harder for any given AC system to cool a wagon than to cool a sedan version of the same car.  It is always harder for any given AC system to cool a space that has 50% more air and 50% more glass letting sunlight in.  And road noise going to be louder in the wagon than in the sedan, whether or not it's "terrible."   

And about leaving perishable foods in your car while you aren't in it, why?! Besides, even if you did want to do that, I'm sure good window tinting would resolve most of that problem for you.

You've never gone to two different grocery stores in one trip?

As for window tinting, even with a heavy tint on the back windows, a wagon's cargo area really can't compete with a trunk that has no glass at all.  The passenger cabin still gets hot in a sedan, but the trunk stays nice and cool.  Even with tinting, sunlight is coming in the wagon, including through the un-tinted front windows, and convection currents cause the entire interior to be the same temperature eventually.

In the end, it all depends on what you want/need. I see the appeal of pretty much all formats of vehicles, including sedans and wagons.

I see the appeal of wagons too.  Tons of cargo space.  Sounds to me that you're saying that sedans are inferior to wagons in every way except for not having to tie cargo down, and I think you're ignoring factors that may be important to other people.

[Shnak]

Mitlov, here's what you need:


It's white so it doesn't attract the sun and has no windows; Heck you could even put a fridge in it to keep your food cool! 

[Mitlov]

Ha ha

In all seriousness, why are you so opposed to the idea that while there are some real practical advantages of a hatchback or a wagon over a sedan (i.e., hauling big boxes or dogs), that there are also some real practical advantages of a sedan over a hatchback or wagon?  Sedans are very very popular in North America; do you really think it's just because (1) people are two cheap to buy cargo nets for wagons/hatches and (2) too vain to buy a wagon/hatch?  I think there's more to it than that.

[Canada Stig]

Ha ha

 Sedans are very very popular in North America; do you really think it's just because (1) people are two cheap to buy cargo nets for wagons/hatches and (2) too vain to buy a wagon/hatch?  I think there's more to it than that.

Not (a) but definately (b), although Canadians seem far more willing than their American cousins to go with Hatchbacks.  Let's face it, the only way Americans even considered wagons/hatches was to jack them up and call them Explorers.

Witness the Ford Focus - in its second generation in Europe, it has done very well on the Mazda3 platform, but for some reason Ford was unwilling to bring the car here.  Simple - it could not be turned into a decent looking sedan and they knew Americans would only buy a sedan.  The 2-door coupe Focus instead of the proper Hatch (and Hot Hatch Focus RS) for the US - and by extension Canadian - market.

North Americans are now used to having their cargo ride with them and appreciate the versatility of SUV type cargo management, so are more likely now to consider a hatch/wagon vs a sedan. 

 I agree Sedans have their advantages, namely separation of cargo and human, but I gave up on the 3 box design in the early 90s (a 91 Accord was my last one) and never looked back - hatches, compact SUVs and (arrgh) a minivan have dominated my automotive landscape for the better part of 2 decades, and when buying my next new car I simply wouldn't consider what i consider to be an impractical design (the sedan).  But that's why there are lots of choices out there, and lots of people buy them - sales numbers don't lie - which is why automakers sell them!

[CatsEye68]

Gotta say, I really don't understand mid-priced 4 door saloons. 

Easy. Four doors in a saloon make it easier to get the paying customers in, and to throw out the drunks.

[articsteve]

The only negative with a hatch or "wagon" is the inability to secure your  valuables (drugs/cash/guns/computers) that absolutely cannot go missing if you frequent hotel, airport, whatever, parking.   

[htwo]

I love the car. Hyundai has a winner here for sure.

The only dislike was that at 6'2", the backseat felt very cramped, especially in the lack-of-headroom department. I'll hang onto my SUV for a bit longer yet. i found the powertrain very nice, but as one poster mentioned there was some roughness. I think that's to be expected on a completely redesigned model in it's first production year.

[Mitlov]

Witness the Ford Focus - in its second generation in Europe, it has done very well on the Mazda3 platform, but for some reason Ford was unwilling to bring the car here.  Simple - it could not be turned into a decent looking sedan and they knew Americans would only buy a sedan.  The 2-door coupe Focus instead of the proper Hatch (and Hot Hatch Focus RS) for the US - and by extension Canadian - market.

That theory is wrong on several levels.  First and foremost, the MkII Euro Focus was not brought over here because at the time, Ford thought that North American buyers would prefer something less expensive, and less communicative/more isolating than the Euro Focus.  It has NOTHING to do with sedan versus hatch.  You want to know why I'm so sure?  Because the MkII Euro Focus, like its platform-siblings the Mazda3 and Volvo S40, did actually exist as a sedan as well as a hatch, and it looked just fine:

But that's why there are lots of choices out there

Agreed.  More choice is a good thing.  Some people prefer (and objectively benefit from) a hatch; some prefer (and objectively benefit from) a sedan.  The argument that hatchbacks are inherently superior to sedans is silly, just as silly as the opposite argument would be.

[safristi]

The only negative with a hatch or "wagon" is the inability to secure your  valuables (drugs/cash/guns/computers) that absolutely cannot go missing if you frequent hotel, airport, whatever, parking.   

...........................

[Canada Stig]

Witness the Ford Focus - in its second generation in Europe, it has done very well on the Mazda3 platform, but for some reason Ford was unwilling to bring the car here.  Simple - it could not be turned into a decent looking sedan and they knew Americans would only buy a sedan.  The 2-door coupe Focus instead of the proper Hatch (and Hot Hatch Focus RS) for the US - and by extension Canadian - market.

That theory is wrong on several levels.  First and foremost, the MkII Euro Focus was not brought over here because at the time, Ford thought that North American buyers would prefer something less expensive, and less communicative/more isolating than the Euro Focus.  It has NOTHING to do with sedan versus hatch.  You want to know why I'm so sure?  Because the MkII Euro Focus, like its platform-siblings the Mazda3 and Volvo S40, did actually exist as a sedan as well as a hatch, and it looked just fine:

But that's why there are lots of choices out there

Agreed.  More choice is a good thing.  Some people prefer (and objectively benefit from) a hatch; some prefer (and objectively benefit from) a sedan.  The argument that hatchbacks are inherently superior to sedans is silly, just as silly as the opposite argument would be.

I said "a decent looking sedan" - which neither the volvo or mazda3 are, in my opinion (the mazda3 sport, on the other hand, looks incredible) - that Focus sedan looks like a Ford 500 left in the dryer too long.  Generally, those who buy compact sedans in Europe are pensioners anyway, so styling is not on the list of priorities.

Although, a saloon is much better for hiding that contraband mentioned earlier, explaining why the mob favours Lincolns and Cadillacs....

[Mitlov]

I said "a decent looking sedan" - which neither the volvo or mazda3 are, in my opinion (the mazda3 sport, on the other hand, looks incredible) - that Focus sedan looks like a Ford 500 left in the dryer too long.  Generally, those who buy compact sedans in Europe are pensioners anyway, so styling is not on the list of priorities.

You said that Ford didn't sell the MkII Euro Focus in North America because they couldn't style it to look decent as a sedan.  Say what you will about its two sedan platform-mates sold here (I think both are handsome), but it's still a completely false statement of Ford's reasoning for not selling the MkII Euro Focus here.

Also, while you pooh-pooh the aesthetic of the MkII Euro Focus sedan, do you really think it looks worse than THIS?





Ford made the North American 2008 Focus different than the Euro Focus for one reason: because they wanted a bargain-basement C-segment car for North America, not a near-premium-priced one like the Mazda3 and Golf.  For model year 2011, they change their strategy and compete with the Mazda and Volkswagen (and the end result should be awesome).

[dirtyjeffer]

I checked out a new 2011 Sonata Limited with Nav today.  WOW.  I was amazed at how nice the car was.  I didn't drive it because I am not looking to buy one right now, but I was curious to see how it looked in person.  The new Jetta TDI was tops on my list, but I think the new Sonata just bumped it to 2nd place.

[eblis]

Hi
I was wondering if the test model was a US model, because non of the Canadian models including the Turbo come with the Infinity sound system nor with 9 speakers  , the Canadian version come with 7 speakers 360 watts on all models.

[dirtyjeffer]

i think it is just a typo...the sound systems are the same for US and Canadian models.

[eblis]

actualy the US model have the option for Infinity with 9 speakers..

[safristi]

  a canuck talkin' ta themselves = Infinity and beyond......i only hears maself and the perfect gear changes on MY RIDES...

[dirtyjeffer]

actualy the US model have the option for Infinity with 9 speakers..

interesting...you are correct...it looks like it might be part of the Nav package...i wonder if you get the Nav package here, if you get the Infinity sound system...it would only make sense they were equipped the same...a Canadian Spec only model wouldn't make sense.