Topic: 2010 Jeep Patriot

[saint_satan]

Just looking at my profile – it’s been 5+ years since I’ve posted here – wow (although I do lurk).

So – here is my dilemma for consideration by the CD masses.  I’m looking to replace an aging and noble friend – my 2001 Jeep Cherokee.  The Jeep has crossed 230K and is starting to show its age.  It’s actually been extremely reliable and I could fix the oil leak(s) and the wonky A/C but I think it’s time to retire the old girl (actually, it’s going to my less fussy Dad in Ontario as a second car and will probably see another 5 years service).

I’m fortunate to have direct access to the wholesale used car market and usually buy a two or three year old “something” at an extreme discount and drive it for another 5 – 7 years.  This was my plan – I was looking at a slightly used Jeep Liberty and Ford Escape as possible replacements for the XJ.  I’ve had direct experience with both of these vehicles at work (fleet vehicles) and both are surprisingly reliable.  I was leaning towards the Liberty because of sentimental reasons and the fact our fleet vehicles see some extreme service and keep on tickin’.

So, for some reason, I’m looking on the Jeep website and I see the Patriot.  To be honest, I haven’t been in the market for some time so I have ignored many of the new models.  I see that the Patriot has some crazy factory incentives so I think – why not?  I’ll go for a test drive.  I have to admit, I quite like this thing at first glance!  Here are my first impressions:

Positives: 

Style (hey! looks like my XJ only modernized) and I like the updated interior.  Lots of space for the driver – back seat is cramped but who cares?  I won’t ever be back there…

Price – a fully loaded+++ North Addition with the Off Road Package for a little better than $23,000!!!

I actually have occasion to use my vehicle in semi-off road conditions (mostly poorly maintained muddy logging roads, winter trips to the cottage, fishing trip expeditions, etc.).  If any of the rhetoric about the Off-Road package is true, this truly separates this vehicle from the other compact CUVs.

Fuel economy – something I’m thinking more and more about.  When (not if) we go back to $1.40/litre it would be nice to have something that got better gas mileage (the Cherokee burns about 11l/100km in ideal highway conditions and >14l/100km in anything else – a 70 litre tank would get me between 500 – 600km).

Comfortable seats, decent (but firm) ride, actually a pretty fun car (CUV?SUV?) to drive.  Hey, coming from a 10 year old Cherokee - everything feels like a Lexus.

Consumer Reports actually says the Patriot has above average reliability.  That has to be a first that a Jeep ever got this kind of endorsement out of CR.  For the record, I think just about any vehicle that is well maintained will get 200 km, with few problems.

Negatives:


Power – not horrible but not great – why a CVT? (FYI - I want the offroad package so the 5 speed is out)

Noise – biggest compliant – this thing has a very buzzy engine.  The Cherokee is loud but the 4.0l I6 ROARS on acceleration.  The Patriot sound like a civic with a thrush muffler.  I think I’m more thrown off by the un-Jeepness of the buzz of the 4 banger than the volume itself.  Pretty quiet when not under acceleration, though.

About me:

I tow a medium sized fishing boat (+/- 1,000 lbs), spend many of my weekends in the bush and generally lead an outdoors lifestyle.  I also have to drive this thing to work Monday to Friday (20 minutes one way on 2 lane highways – say 80 – 90 km/h) Does the Patriot have enough value to make a frugal guy me buy a new car?  Does anybody have any experience with this unit or no anybody who has?  Any thoughts at all?  Should I stick to the extremely discounted used Liberty or Escape and save $10K?

Thanks!!!

Beelzebub

[Mitlov]

I would be afraid to tow a 1000-lb boat with a unibody crossover that platform-shares with a Dodge Caliber.  Besides that, though, the Patriot sounds like the perfect vehicle for you.

[Leviathan]

The boat will be fine on it as it can do 2,000lbs "when properly equipped". From what I gather on jeep.ca the off-road package provides the "properly equipped" bits.

Too bad about the off-road package and no 5 speed manual though.

[mrthompson]

Welcome back! 

I would be hesitant towing anything with the CVT.  Just my gut feeling. 

[saint_satan]

Thanks, Mr. T!

I do lurk but not able to post during the day because of a crazy network firewall that has only recently been fixed.  Your thoughts on CVT and towing are interesting.  I guess the good news is my boat (and other toys) are reasonably light (I think some of my relatives might even be heavier ).  I guess if it’s under warranty, they’d have to fix it, right?

I too was leery about the CVT at first, but once I found out through research it was a Nissan part and there has been some decent history with these things, I felt a little better.  It actually doesn’t drive too bad.  There’s a little hesitation at first but it seems to have a little more pep than our fleet Libertys – I guess because the Patriot is +1000 lbs. lighter.  I think because there’s no discernable down-shift in the CVT it feels slower than it actually is.

[stodge]

The CVT manufacturer is Jatco I believe, but the trannie in the current gen Dodge/Jeep isn't exactly the same model as in the Nissans. I don't know if Dodge/Jeep use a different CVT or if only the programming is different. But from what I read the CVT used by Nissan is much better.

A very quick search found this:

http://www.caliberforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3192.html

A post there says Jatco is owned by Nissan and Mitsubishi. Here's Jatco's site:

http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/PRODUCTS/cvt.html

[davidy]

I am still not sold on CVT's. I believe that Nissan recently extended the warranty on the CVT on the Rogue.

Dave

[stodge]

No problem with my Sentra's CVT after 2.5yrs of driving. Admittedly, I've only done about 17500km.

[Ontariodriver]

I would be afraid to tow a 1000-lb boat with a unibody crossover that platform-shares with a Dodge Caliber.  Besides that, though, the Patriot sounds like the perfect vehicle for you.

You can only tow up to 454 kg....I wouldn't want to tow with CVT personally.

No problem with my Sentra's CVT after 2.5yrs of driving. Admittedly, I've only done about 17500km.

Nissan make the best CVT.

[PJungnitsch]

I am still not sold on CVT's. I believe that Nissan recently extended the warranty on the CVT on the Rogue.

They extended the warranty on all their CVT's up to 10 yrs/200,000 km.

Not sure if they are having a lot of failures or if they do fail, they fail big, ie throw away the old one and bolt in a whole new (expensive) transmission.

[airbalancer]

No problem with my Sentra's CVT after 2.5yrs of driving. Admittedly, I've only done about 17500km.

The wife has that much on the the Prius since the end of August and she is  semi retired

[Ontariodriver]

No problem with my Sentra's CVT after 2.5yrs of driving. Admittedly, I've only done about 17500km.

The wife has that much on the the Prius since the end of August and she is  semi retired

I guess he doesn't like driving Sentra all that much.

[saint_satan]

Update:

Well the wife and I went for a test drive.  She has not driven the Jeep yet.  She quite liked it.  She did make the observation that the Jeep sounded a bit like a Diesel but seemed otherwise pleased.  Now we’ll have to weigh this against the late model used options.

I have to admit, the forum has given me a bit of pause to think about the CVT.  CR and other websites don’t have much negative to say about the reliability of the Compass/Patriot/Caliber trannies.  It seems unfair the U.S. get a “lifetime” powertrain warranty .  Same with Suzuki – why are Canadian’s second-class car owners?  I demand the same treatment – it’s the least they can do for the shareholders (Governments of Canada and Ontario)  .

[mrthompson]

Would a Grand Vitara (Viagra ) or used X-Trail suit your needs? 

[Ontariodriver]

I have to admit, the forum has given me a bit of pause to think about the CVT. 

What about a Ford Escape?

[mrthompson]

I’m fortunate to have direct access to the wholesale used car market and usually buy a two or three year old “something” at an extreme discount and drive it for another 5 – 7 years.  This was my plan – I was looking at a slightly used Jeep Liberty and Ford Escape as possible replacements for the XJ.  I’ve had direct experience with both of these vehicles at work (fleet vehicles) and both are surprisingly reliable.  I was leaning towards the Liberty because of sentimental reasons and the fact our fleet vehicles see some extreme service and keep on tickin’.

[saint_satan]

I like the Grand Vitara.  A lot, actually.  It’s too expensive new at $33K+ (to get the 6 cylinder you have to get sun roof, power seats, etc.).  The 4 banger seems slower than the Patriot.  I have access to the wholesale used market but haven’t seen any of the 3.5L Grand Vitaras go through the sale – and I ‘ve been watching.  Probably not a whole lot out there yet.

X-Trials haven’t been made in a couple of years (’06?) and are a little older than what I want. Decent unit, though – I question Nissan’s decision to replace with the Rogue (sorry Rogueities).  Apparently they still sold everywhere else in the world except NA.  Another case of Canada getting the shaft (see previous post on warranties).

I like everything about the Escape on paper and it is still in the running for consideration.  It probably would cover 95% of my driving.  One compliant - it’s practical and very boring (in my eyes).  Don’t be surprised if that’s what I end up with - being a practical, frugal and boring guy .

When the Liberty first came out, I lusted after one - so it remains a bit of a sentimental favourite.  I almost bought one in '02 but the practical side of me (with prompting from my fiancée and the used car dealer in the family) told me to get a late model used (the Cherokee) and save my money for down payment on a house – which I dutifully (and painfully) did.  As it turns out, I’ve been told the Liberty are actually reasonably good rigs.  The reliability is decent (our fleet vehicles have no issues and see some pretty severe service towing, offroad, etc.).  The only issue is the gas mileage which I gather is similar to the Cherokee.  It’s not as practical as the Escape but more fun and more stylish (subjective).  I do occasionally venture off the beaten path too.

So this is why I looked at the Patriot this week.  It seems to blend the practicality of a CUV with some OK offroading and some cool Jeep styling (again, subjective).   Great incentives right now too (no problem getting $3K+ off with incentives, haggling, etc.).  Having had a Jeep for the last 7+ years, they are a sentimental favourite (subjective/insanity).  If they only put the 3.3 V6 and a standard 4 or 5 speed automatic in the Patriot.  (FYI - the Cherokee also gets winded above 90km/h - low end gearing compromises highway passing power).

It comes back to the CVT – and, yes, the money of new over used.


Stay tuned…

[Trainman]

I am glad the Liberty has been good to your company as the experiences that most of my fellow forestry types out west here have had with it have not been good.  Cramped, very poor rear suspension as far as standing up to rough roads go, lots of body noise, very poor fuel economy for its size, and somewhat prone to switching ends if you are not careful.  Most of these were disposed of as soon as they could justify a replacement.

Lots of good CUV's out there, I like the Escape for its versatility and with its square back, it can carry a fair bit more that those with more sloping backs.  And reliability has been good.

[Ontariodriver]

Ford Escape

I was being cynical....LOL

[saint_satan]

Trainman:

Just because we've had luck in terms of reliability, doesn't mean I wouldn't agree with you on some of your points.  The fuel economy is not great - but then again the Liberty is more comparable to the X-Terra then a RAV4.  Rear seats are narrow and somewhat uncomfortable you have to get used to sitting "that close" to the driver's door.  Ride is stiff but not nearly as bad as the Cherokee (I think our staff is a bit nostalgic for the XJs we used to have but I deal with one every day and can attest there has been an improvement).  You can really feel the weight on the Liberty and it's a mystery why they had to make it so heavy. 

I find the turning radius fantastic and it seems to pull our ATVs and boats quite well.

We also have a second generation Liberty and I'm not that thrilled with it.  It's heavier, lower, slower (and uglier) than the 1st generation - although it does have more room and seems to drive better on the highway.  I'm stunned these things keep getter heavier.  The curb weight of the Cherokee was about 3,000 lbs.  The old Libertys are 4,000lbs and the new Liberty is 4,400 Lbs.  That's about 50% heavier over the last 10 years.

I can see the fleet moving to 4 door 1/4 tonnes in the near future now that they are more prevalent.