Topic: More bad press for Toyota

[CatsEye68]

Might all just be pedal location, especially in new vehicles before (old) people get used to them.

Except that for some brands, and according to the table, in particular some Asian brands, you do not see a dropoff over time. That tells me there is another fault at play here.

Check out those Hyundai numbers for the Azera. Ouch.

[Juke1]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503983_162-20000996-503983.html

[Juke1]

http://labornotes.org/blogs/2010/03/toyota-and-myth-quality

[johngenx]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503983_162-20000996-503983.html

Which is a lot different than an instant, wide open condition combined with brake and shifter failure.  For years and years, Mercedes used (probably still do) an Air Mass Meter on the "front" of the FI system that would also result in a surging throttle if the part failed.  Our old Mazda also had an FI system fault that engaged the cold start circuit that would result in a jump in the idle, and sometimes the car would surge while driving.

The Mercedes fault was the most dangerous, in that the car would often stumble, in a stalling state, and then the throttle would suddenly (omg, suddenly) "engage" and the car would move more rapidly than expected.  Of course, the brake pedal solved any unwanted movement.

These problems are usually related to faulty metering, sometimes faulty vacuum and other FI related issues.

Again, far from the reported demonic possessions of vehicles, and far from unique to Toyota.

[rrocket]

http://labornotes.org/blogs/2010/03/toyota-and-myth-quality

C'mon....a Labour organization that supports unionized labour (located in downtown Motor City) writing something bad about non-unionized Toyota?  Shocking!   

They even slag GM for the new non-union Volt plant...

[johngenx]

I do agree with the union on some points. 

Even years ago "Kaizen" was all the rage, and my firm studied it in detail.  Basically, for the line employees, it's terrible!  Literally, it means "constant improvement."  Sounds good?  Well, suppose you can put 100 dash boards together in an hour.  We make the goal 105.  You go like gangbusters and reach 105.  The goal is once again raised.  Very high pressure environment.

However, it can be done right.  If the goal is to be raised, then the process has to be changed.  Simply expecting the worker to do more is not productive in the end, as it leads to employee burn-out.  Toyota has used Kaizen both ways, and in the former, with poor results.

The other problem in Toyota culture is the need for constant growth.  This has lead to overproduction and stretching themselves pretty thin with respect to engineering.

Now, all that said, we're not talking about Toyota suddenly making -boxes.  Overall, a Toyota is a still a good bet, but the other problem for Toyota is that everyone's quality has come up.  It's not longer their key advantage.  And this is why they need to get back having interesting and exciting products.  Sure, a Corolla is designed to be an appliance, and most buyers bought it for that reason, but where are the Celica, the MR2, the Supra, and who knows what other slick products they can think of?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Sure, a Corolla is designed to be an appliance, and most buyers bought it for that reason, but where are the Celica, the MR2, the Supra, and who knows what other slick products they can think of?

That's one of the things I don't understand. They could easily take the Corolla and slap a sporty body on it, tweak the suspension, and have a pretty interesting product, much like they did with the last Celica. (As I see it, it was the ridiculous pricing of the last Celica that killed it: $30k+ for a two door Corolla? Really?)

 It isn't like they were strapped for cash. It wouldn't have huge sales, but it generates interest at the very least.

The FT-86 seems to be a huge leap in the right direction, and the pricing from what I've heard seems more realistic.

[dr_spock]

Isn't there a Corolla S model?  Sporty appliance?    I think if you want something a little more interesting and exciting, you go to the Lexus line. 

[Erik]

Isn't there a Corolla S model?  Sporty appliance?    I think if you want something a little more interesting and exciting, you go to the Lexus line. 

Not too much sporty or exciting in the Lexus line either. Mostly luxury appliances there.

[rrocket]

Isn't there a Corolla S model?  Sporty appliance?    I think if you want something a little more interesting and exciting, you go to the Lexus line. 

Not too much sporty or exciting in the Lexus line either. Mostly luxury appliances there.

The IS line is sporty.  The rest?  Not so much....

[Erik]

Isn't there a Corolla S model?  Sporty appliance?    I think if you want something a little more interesting and exciting, you go to the Lexus line. 

Not too much sporty or exciting in the Lexus line either. Mostly luxury appliances there.

The IS line is sporty.  The rest?  Not so much....

Well, maybe some cars in the IS line are sporty....

[rrocket]

Isn't there a Corolla S model?  Sporty appliance?    I think if you want something a little more interesting and exciting, you go to the Lexus line. 

Not too much sporty or exciting in the Lexus line either. Mostly luxury appliances there.

The IS line is sporty.  The rest?  Not so much....

Well, maybe some cars in the IS line are sporty....

Sigh.  Ok....even the IS250 with a 6 speed manual is more sporty than ANY Toyota.  Ditto an IS350 with a flappy paddles.  And the IS-F goes without saying.

[Erik]

Isn't there a Corolla S model?  Sporty appliance?    I think if you want something a little more interesting and exciting, you go to the Lexus line. 

Not too much sporty or exciting in the Lexus line either. Mostly luxury appliances there.

The IS line is sporty.  The rest?  Not so much....

Well, maybe some cars in the IS line are sporty....

Sigh.  Ok....even the IS250 with a 6 speed manual is more sporty than ANY Toyota.  Ditto an IS350 with a flappy paddles.  And the IS-F goes without saying.

Ok, I will concede the the IS250 with a 6 speed is more sporty than a Toyota. But that sure ain't sayin much!

[DrJay]

Isn't there a Corolla S model?  Sporty appliance?    I think if you want something a little more interesting and exciting, you go to the Lexus line. 

Not too much sporty or exciting in the Lexus line either. Mostly luxury appliances there.

The IS line is sporty.  The rest?  Not so much....

Well, maybe some cars in the IS line are sporty....

Sigh.  Ok....even the IS250 with a 6 speed manual is more sporty than ANY Toyota.  Ditto an IS350 with a flappy paddles.  And the IS-F goes without saying.

Ok, I will concede the the IS250 with a 6 speed is more sporty than a Toyota. But that sure ain't sayin much!

Kinda have to agree ...not since the days of the Supra or the MR2 have Toyota had anything remotely sporty ....snooze and the Lexus focus has been more (dare I say) style over substance such that it is.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Isn't there a Corolla S model?  Sporty appliance?    I think if you want something a little more interesting and exciting, you go to the Lexus line. 

There is, but the body is just as milquetoast as the regular Corolla while the performance is marginally better. It seems like a pretty weak effort compared to something like the MazdaSpeed 3 or VW GTi.

The Lexus line is fine, but the price point is wrong for the kinds of cars I have in mind.

[MKII]

Google Toyota  "Construction of Cost Competitiveness for the 21st Century" or CCC-21 or Watanabe's  "Value Innovation" to get an understanding of why Toyota is were it is today.

One such article which speaks on the subject http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aF0aX8t0Q6lk

[Erik]

Google Toyota  "Construction of Cost Competitiveness for the 21st Century" or CCC-21 or Watanabe's  "Value Innovation" to get an understanding of why Toyota is were it is today.

One such article which speaks on the subject http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aF0aX8t0Q6lk

Interesting articles.
Thanks!