Author Topic: Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees  (Read 9573 times)

Offline Wheelboy

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2011, 10:35:13 am »
It's been many years since my last "new" car purchase and I had never even heard of this etching/nitrogen fee until yesterday.  I just want to share my brief experience on the subject.

My wife and I are ready to purchase a new Hyundai and happened to come across the colour we want at an out of town dealer yesterday afternoon.  We made an offer to buy the vehicle.  The salesperson came back with a reasonable counter-offer but also informed us of an additional $500 charge, not shown on their website, for nitrogen filled tires and vehicle etching.  We just looked at each other... nitrowhat? 
Thanks to the regular posters on this site.  Awesome information here.
 :)

Just imagine the poor devils who DON'T read this site and the first time they ever hear about those two scams are when they are *this* close to signing.  I make a point of looking for those little green, round window decals that show just how many people get sucked in.  Those things are on the vast majority of cars out on the streets.

NO salesperson ever says "We like to sell this but it's against OMVIC'S rules for me to say that it's compulsory.  You have complete freedom of choice."  My Acura dealer was the closest to saying this.  He mentioned its existence but when I announced that I was quite aware of its existence and the rules that governed its sales he backed right off.  He got my business.  Others in the preceding months didn't.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 10:39:30 am by Wheelboy »
Dopelar Effect - "The tendency of stupid people to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly."

Offline tpl

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2011, 10:40:49 am »
The nitrogen thing is particularly funny.   As every tire already has 80% nitrogen in it anyway it should be good fun to negotiate that  price down to 1/5 of that which they are asking...with a straight face if you can do it.    Or insist that they let all the gas out of the tires and refill them from a regular compressor.

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

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Offline Wheelboy

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2011, 11:52:04 am »
insist that they let all the gas out of the tires and refill them from a regular compressor.

They might play you at your own game and try to charge you for the bit that they can't remove without creating a vacuum.   ;D

I had to laugh when I visited my local VW dealer - Leavens in London Ont - ALL the cars on their lot had lime green valve caps indicating that all their cars (new, used) had nitrogen already installed.  I guess they know what's good for their customers. 

Offline Gardiner Westbound

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2011, 12:01:09 pm »
I'm pretty certain that we will still buy this car somewhere but more than likely from another dealer.  Our next offer will start $500 lower than yesterday's in anticipation of this happening again.

It's the salesman's job to make the offers. Don't respond to, “How much do you want to spend?” Negotiate up from true dealer cost, not down from MSRP. Let him do the talking. Control, but don't dominate the negotiation. Never suggest a number. Ask him for his best price.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 06:07:17 pm by Gardiner Westbound »
"When you invent a better mousetrap, the mice tend to get smarter." - Willie Gingrich

Offline Turbo Bob

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2011, 12:55:19 pm »
TyWebb, just refuse to pay it, don't negotiate it in. Mine came etched etc, I just said I didn't want it and wouldn't pay, they were fine with that. Be strong.
Power is how fast you hit the wall... Torque is how far you take the wall with you!


Offline johngenx

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2011, 03:00:25 pm »
I bet they just install those green caps and add $$ to the invoice.
No place I'd rather be...

Offline safristi

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2011, 08:49:38 am »
..they should forget the etching B/S and offer free BODY ETCHINGS..aka Tattoos.....someone told me they are catching on these days!!!! ;D..........don't think iv'e seen an Under 30 something piece of skin Tat FREE :'( now that SKOOLS OUT FER SUMMER  :o :o :o....are they all joining the Marines or Merchant Navy .... ???....


 yeah Tat the dealership LOGO on the customers upper arse fer FREE...........advertising in BED   Bath and BEYOND the BEACH.... :rofl2:..............
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 08:53:09 am by safristi »
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline TyWebb

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2011, 10:25:22 am »
TB... now that I've read all about the subject in this forum you can rest assured that I'm not paying $500 for inflated tires or useless etching.  By the way I tried to talk my wife into the Genesis 2.0T but this will be her primary car and she has her mind set on the Tucson.

GW... thanks for the advice.  MSRP is currently the only price I have to work with, but I'm seriously thinking about paying for the CCC report.  I'm just not sure if it will make a difference in the end result.

I once swapped out the black plastic valve caps on the Mustang for gray plastic caps ($0.99 mod).  They looked pretty good too, but were stolen inside of a week.

Offline safristi

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2011, 11:35:54 am »
 ??? ::) Must be a Hamilton "Thang"..........grey Cup fever.... :stick: :think: :nono:

Offline Gardiner Westbound

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2011, 12:06:55 pm »
GW... thanks for the advice.  MSRP is currently the only price I have to work with, but I'm seriously thinking about paying for the CCC report.  I'm just not sure if it will make a difference in the end result.

The Consumer Reports New Car Price Report provides the buyer with true Canadian dealer cost, holdback, rebate and incentive information at US$30 a report, less for multiple reports. Apply a reasonable mark-up and let the games begin. Alternately hand it to the salesman and invite him to add the minimum mark-up required for dealer profit telling him you will buy if the price is right.

Never negotiate from MSRP or dealer invoice. Both are fictitious, designed to flimflam naïve consumers. Establish a fair target price beforehand by calculating true dealer cost from buying service data, applying a reasonable 4-percent markup for profit and adding $750 for actual freight cost. Enter zero for PDI. Refuse up-sells and add-ons. Reject non-statutory charges and fees. Do not discuss your budget, financing, monthly payments, leasing vs. buying, or trade-in before receiving an acceptable bottom line price.

A salesman cannot close the sale until the customer is open to buy. The knowledge buyer is not open to buy until his target price is met. The most powerful tool in a buyer’s arsenal is the “walk away,” a strategic exit that leaves the door open for further discussion. Transferring the onus to the salesman shifts the psychological advantage to the buyer. Always ponder a deal overnight. If you have shopped several dealers one may be hungrier than the rest. Wait for a call with an improved offer. Test for a fallback position. Say it still isn’t good enough. Absent a call return to the dealership and pick up where you left off. Most folks can tolerate two rounds in a negotiation. After that patience may wear thin.

http://crcanadacars.org/
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 12:14:36 pm by Gardiner Westbound »

Offline Wheelboy

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2011, 08:02:08 pm »
I bet they just install those green caps and add $$ to the invoice.

Oh John that's VERY cynical of you!  No-one would ever do that would they?  I mean it's easy to tell if you tires contain 20% more nitrogen than your neighbor's old Buick isn't it?    8)

Offline Turbo Bob

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2011, 08:28:31 pm »
Ask them to prove what the gas is in the tires! LOL

Offline richink

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2011, 03:45:19 pm »
TyWebb, just refuse to pay it, don't negotiate it in. Mine came etched etc, I just said I didn't want it and wouldn't pay, they were fine with that. Be strong.

In my day in the industry every car that came off the truck got etched even though I strongly disagreed with the practise, we never paid the company until it was sold with the car. It's far from thorough, only major components and no more than 10 minutes work. Snakeoilus supremus! Come to think of it, I'd refuse to buy a new car that even had it done. I'm not interested in those kinds of forced sales tactics.

Apply a reasonable mark-up and let the games begin. Alternately hand it to the salesman and invite him to add the minimum mark-up required for dealer profit telling him you will buy if the price is right.

$750 for actual freight cost.

I wouldn't give them a penny of profit to start! Freight cost is $500 on the outside for a large SUV. Small cars are no more than $350. Refuse to give a deposit of any kind until you can agree on price. Start offers at cost, that sends a strong message that you know what it is and move up in increments of $100 bucks. Walk away at ANY time if you feel you aren't getting the deal OR treatment you deserve.

Nitrogen in tires is a falacy. No real benefit for those of us who check their tire pressures reguarly but then who wouldn't? Dealerships charging $200 to consumers to do that is downright criminal. Maybe I am reposting a repost here, but an article written by Jim Kerr completely debunks everything about nitrogen in this article right on our favourite website!

http://www.autos.ca/auto-tech/auto-tech-tips-on-tire-inflation
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 03:53:10 pm by richink »
Richard - that's my opinion and I stand by it.

Offline CarCompass

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2012, 12:47:41 pm »
I've created a blog post about admin fees, etching, nitrogen and extra fees. It's long, but hopefully useful and helps clarify when a dealer can and cannot charge these extra fees. Info is based solely on my understanding of the MVDA 2002 and my personal experience as a car broker. Blog post here: blog.carcompass.ca/2012/02/17/extra-fees/
Feel free to leave comments that will help our collective understanding of the matter!
Cheers,
Angus

Offline DomD

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Re: Etching and Nitrogen Fees
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2012, 07:56:44 am »
Is there really that much mark up on freight & PDI?  Here is a sample from the manufature's websites of cars I'm looking at.  These are for Nova Scotia, is there a difference between provinces?

Mazda 5: $1800
Hyundai Elantra Touring: $1500 (plus other taxes and fees $115)
Kia Forte 5: $1455
Kia Sportage: $1650 (plus other taxes and fees $100)

Isn't the Sportage bulit in the USA?  I know it is a bigger car but I would think a car coming from South Korea would cost more to ship.