Author Topic: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths  (Read 1345 times)

CatsEye68

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Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« on: February 16, 2010, 11:34:06 am »
http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/15022010/2/biz-finance-u-s-officials-sudden-acceleration-blamed-34-toyota.html

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In the past three weeks, consumers have told the U.S. government about nine crashes involving 13 alleged deaths between 2005 and 2010 due to accelerator problems, according to a NHTSA database. The latest complaints come on top of earlier information from consumers alleging 21 deaths from 2000 to the end of last year.

The database also shows that new complaints skyrocketed over the 2010 Prius gas-electric hybrid, which was recalled last week to replace braking software.

When NHTSA opened its investigation of Prius on Feb. 3, the government had received 124 consumer complaints. Through Feb. 11, the government had a total of 1,120 complaints alleging 34 crashes, six injuries and no deaths.

The government has renewed an investigation into potential electromagnetic problems in vehicles built by Toyota and other manufacturers. Consumer groups have pointed to potential electrical problems while the company has said recalls to fix sticking gas pedals or accelerators that can become jammed will address the problem.
..
Toyota has received many complaints over vehicle speed control in the 2009 and 2008 model years, according to an Associated Press analysis of government data.

In 2009, Toyota received the most complaints that year - a total of 130 for Toyota, Lexus and Scion vehicles. Ford and its Mercury brand received the second-highest with 14, followed by General Motors and Honda vehicles with nine.

Among Toyota vehicles in the 2009 model year, the Camry led the list of models with 52 complaints, followed by Corolla (17), Tacoma (16) and Prius (13). The AP found eight of the top 10 vehicles with complaints over vehicle speed control were manufactured by Toyota.

In the 2008 model year, Toyota vehicles received 176 complaints of vehicle speed control, followed by Ford with 44 and Chrysler with 25. In that year, Prius had 31 complaints, followed by Tacoma with 28 and Camry with 25.

A giant bowl of Not Good.

Offline DrJay

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 01:23:42 pm »
"In the past three weeks, consumers have told the U.S. government about nine crashes involving 13 alleged deaths between 2005 and 2010 due to accelerator problems, according to a NHTSA database. The latest complaints come on top of earlier information from consumers alleging 21 deaths from 2000 to the end of last year."

Love the language "alleged" ..What they aren't sure if they are dead? or still not sure if they're actualy dead from crashes due to accellerator problems.??? there's been plenty of time to make that determination no? Regardless still not good anyway you look at it.  Hopefully much can be learned from this.
DrJay.

Offline tpl

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 02:23:43 pm »
So how many people died in crashes while in a Toyota between 2000 and 2010 (so far) that were not blamed on the Toyota but on:  drunks, speeding, ice, other vehicles etc.

A lot more than 34 I betcha.
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Offline Juke1

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2010, 02:27:49 pm »
So how many people died in crashes while in a Toyota between 2000 and 2010 (so far) that were not blamed on the Toyota but on:  drunks, speeding, ice, other vehicles etc.

A lot more than 34 I betcha.

And if they would have died in a Chevrolet?..................don't bother we know the answer ;)
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Offline dr_spock

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 06:21:23 pm »
So how many people died in crashes while in a Toyota between 2000 and 2010 (so far) that were not blamed on the Toyota but on:  drunks, speeding, ice, other vehicles etc.

A lot more than 34 I betcha.

At least one that I am aware of.  I saw on the news a couple of years ago a head-on between a VW New Beetle and Toyota Echo at an intersection.  Unfortunately it was fatal for the Echo driver.  :( 

Offline rrocket

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 06:35:26 pm »
So how many people died in crashes while in a Toyota between 2000 and 2010 (so far) that were not blamed on the Toyota but on:  drunks, speeding, ice, other vehicles etc.

A lot more than 34 I betcha.

At least one that I am aware of.  I saw on the news a couple of years ago a head-on between a VW New Beetle and Toyota Echo at an intersection.  Unfortunately it was fatal for the Echo driver.  :( 


Echo doesn't use the affected accelerator assembly.

All deaths are "alleged" because they likely won't be able to prove it.  Like I've said..go ask a police officer (if you know any) and ask what people say when they have a runaway car issue.  Pedal was stuck is always the answer, regardless of make or model.  Usually it's the person pushing the brake instead of the accelerator.

But let's see...6 million cars...and 34 "alleged" deaths..  So .0005%  You have a better chance of dying falling off your porch stairs while walking to you car than you do driving one of these "defective" cars...
How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....

Offline airbalancer

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2010, 07:01:41 pm »
Echo doesn't use the affected accelerator assembly

Maybe the Echo uses the Prius braking system ???

Offline rrocket

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2010, 07:04:52 pm »
Echo doesn't use the affected accelerator assembly

Maybe the Echo uses the Prius braking system ???

Nope....

Offline tpl

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2010, 07:22:32 pm »
You miss my point gentlemen.   The 34 deaths from a faulty(?) part is probably insignificant compared to the normal rate of death from accidents/collisions/operator error

Offline rrocket

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2010, 07:27:47 pm »
You miss my point gentlemen.   The 34 deaths from a faulty(?) part is probably insignificant compared to the normal rate of death from accidents/collisions/operator error

No, I understood.  That's why I said you have a better chance of falling on your stairs and dying than you do in your recalled Toyota...

Offline airbalancer

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2010, 07:45:54 pm »
Echo doesn't use the affected accelerator assembly

Maybe the Echo uses the Prius braking system ???

Nope....

  I want to see if anyone would say anything , is there a stirring the pot smiley

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2010, 08:56:43 pm »
You miss my point gentlemen.   The 34 deaths from a faulty(?) part is probably insignificant compared to the normal rate of death from accidents/collisions/operator error

That's like saying that deaths from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are statistically insignificant compared to deaths from heart disease.  True, but does that make it non-newsworthy?
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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 12:41:36 am »
Obama Motors is really puting the boots to Toyota.  They are taking no prisoners.
Getting even for the Battan Death March I suppose.   :run:

NHTSA to study if Toyota made recalls promptly
Neil Roland
Automotive News -- February 16, 2010 - 1:18 pm ET
UPDATED: 2/16/10 7:08 p.m. EST

WASHINGTON -- Federal regulators are investigating whether Toyota Motor Corp. made its unintended-acceleration recalls promptly enough and whether they included all models with possible defects.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said today that it asked Toyota to provide documents showing when and how the company learned of the defects that prompted three recalls of 6 million vehicles in the United States.

The recalls of Toyota and Lexus vehicles for unintended acceleration occurred in September 2007, last October and in January of this year.

“Safety recalls are very serious matters, and automakers are required to quickly report defects,” Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, who oversees NHTSA, said in a statement.

Under federal law, automakers must contact NHTSA within five days of determining that a safety defect exists and must promptly conduct a recall, the agency said.

“Toyota takes its responsibility to advance vehicle safety seriously and to alert government officials of any safety issue in a timely manner,” Toyota spokeswoman Cindy Knight said today in an e-mail. “We are reviewing NHTSA's request and will cooperate to provide all the information they have requested.”

NHTSA also requested documents that might show whether the recalls included all models with possible defects.

The request specified models with electronic sensors, which might be implicated in the unintended acceleration.

“We also require information from Toyota on why some models of vehicles with electronic throttle control were not included in the recalls,” NHTSA said in a 21-page letter to Toyota today.

NHTSA gave Toyota until March 18 to reply to the requests for information about the timeliness of the recalls, and until April 16 to reply to the letter asking whether any defective models were excluded from any recalls.

The amount of detailed information requested by NHTSA is "unprecedented" in the agency's history, said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety founded by Ralph Nader.

Electronics issues

Toyota has denied that any unintended-acceleration problems were attributable to its electronic systems. Instead, the company has blamed floor mats and defective gas pedals.

NHTSA told Toyota today that the new investigation was prompted by the agency's review of Toyota defect reports and recalls.

A 2002 Toyota technical service bulletin being looked at by congressional investigators cited “engine surging” in the Camry and recommended calibration of the engine control module, or ECM.

“Calibrating the ECM -- that's electronics,” Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., said in an interview last week. He chairs the House Energy and Commerce Committee's subcommittee on oversight.

The 2002 Camry has not been recalled.

Stupak said lawmakers “aren't buying” Toyota's denials of electronic interference.

The focus of NHTSA's investigation echoes that of some congressional inquiries.

Last month, the chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, Henry Waxman, asked Toyota and NHTSA for records dating back to 2000.

Unanswered questions

Toyota's private meetings with committee staff about unintended acceleration “left important questions unanswered, including when Toyota learned about this serious safety defect and what actions the company took to investigate and resolve the hazard,” wrote Waxman, D-Calif.

This month, the House Oversight Committee asked why its recall of Tacoma pickup trucks was limited to vehicles with possible floor mat entrapment despite numerous complaints from Tacoma drivers with no floor mats in their cars.

In addition, NHTSA has said it is conducting a standard review of power-steering complaints involving 2009-10 Corollas after an Automotive News report said there were 83 complaints, 76 of which described a loss of control at speeds of more than 40 mph.

The Oversight Committee has scheduled a Feb. 24 hearing at which LaHood is to testify. The energy panel is slated to have a hearing the next day.
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Offline DrJay

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 09:37:18 am »
You miss my point gentlemen.   The 34 deaths from a faulty(?) part is probably insignificant compared to the normal rate of death from accidents/collisions/operator error

When did we become so numb that even one (preventable) death becomes insignificant?

Offline safristi

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2010, 02:04:58 pm »
.....c,mon are U auditioning fer a PULL IT SEER PRIZE.................Mary fell in the well storybook gardens type response............. :P...get REAL.............XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX people die daily............................XXXXX from their own stupidity.....................................XXXXXXXXXXXXXX from just damn dumb luck..................XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX cos it's their TIME..and one millionth of an X dies 'cos Of Toyota......................get over yerself.........sheesh.......... :bang: :light: :banghead: :foil: :eye: :sleep:
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline DrJay

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2010, 02:12:04 pm »
.....c,mon are U auditioning fer a PULL IT SEER PRIZE.................Mary fell in the well storybook gardens type response............. :P...get REAL.............XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX people die daily............................XXXXX from their own stupidity.....................................XXXXXXXXXXXXXX from just damn dumb luck..................XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX cos it's their TIME..and one millionth of an X dies 'cos Of Toyota......................get over yerself.........sheesh.......... :bang: :light: :banghead: :foil: :eye: :sleep:

Yup my point exactly. compasion abounds....

Offline safristi

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2010, 02:16:43 pm »
CROCODILE TEARS.......................of course U know the NEXT VICTIM and will sit in MOURNING fer 10 weeks....................... :foil: :eye:

Offline DrJay

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2010, 03:12:28 pm »
CROCODILE TEARS.......................of course U know the NEXT VICTIM and will sit in MOURNING fer 10 weeks....................... :foil: :eye:

Not quite whats shiva 3 days? ... all i'm saying is when is (in this instance) enough death enough to be significant ... you know the old saying 1 is a tragedy 100 is a statistic.  A drunk driver kills someone and is (hopefully) held accountable. people die every day in accidents I get that but to what degree do we hold manufacturers accountable and ultimately responsible for a death they ultimately cause is what i'm asking/getting at.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2010, 03:33:15 pm »
Is this the answer?

Quote
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
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Offline DrJay

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Re: Toyota blamed in 34 deaths
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2010, 04:46:35 pm »
Is this the answer?

Quote
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Pretty much what it boils down to ... a simple equation ... still doesn't seem right that it should be as simple as that but oh well..