Topic: Camaro races ahead of GM's profit expectations

[Leviathan]

http://www.wheels.ca/Article%20Category/article/783828

Retro muscle car far more lucrative than automaker had originally forecast

Jan 13, 2010
Tony Van Alphen

Business reporter

DETROIT–The Chevrolet Camaro muscle car, which General Motors builds in Oshawa, has become far more profitable to the automaker than original forecasts, says company vice-chairman Bob Lutz.

Lutz, GM's product guru, said the iconic car is beating internal sales projections, easily surpassing estimates for average transaction prices and the combination is leading to big profits.

He said GM is making an average of $8,000 to $9,000 (U.S.) more per sale than it anticipated on models with transaction prices in the $35,000 to $40,000 range.

"What is especially remarkable is the average transaction price," Lutz told reporters at the North American International Auto Show.

"It's way, way higher than we expected it to be and the profitability of the vehicle has turned out to be far better than our expectations."

Lutz said one of the reasons for the strong profitability is, ironically, fuel economy. GM promoted the V-6, 300-horsepower, more fuel-efficient model with lower pricing and less profit to encourage sales.

The company then overpriced the V-8, more powerful, less fuel-efficient model to keep its sales down.

In Canada, the manufacturer's suggested price is almost $27,000 (Canadian) for the V-6 model and $37,000 for the V-8 version. But V-8 sales still outpaced the V-6s by a wide margin in both countries.

"End result: 80 per cent of sales, V-8s," Lutz said.

The Camaro ceased production at GM's plant in Ste. Thérèse, Que., in 2002 after 35 years, but was revived in March last year in Oshawa after a concept at the show generated a huge positive response. Production on one shift with some overtime totalled more than 83,000 in less than 10 months last year.

Waiting times for delivery for the Camaro in Canada vary, but could be up to 90 days.

The Canadian Auto Workers pressed GM to add another shift to meet demand but the company has rejected that idea.

Muscle cars normally have a strong sales start for 18 months to two years before gradually losing their momentum.

Automakers add special edition models to boost interest after the initial surge. GM is adding a Camaro convertible model in the first quarter of next year.

The Camaro, which uses ads with such tag lines as "lust conquers all," is up against Ford's Mustang and the Dodge Challenger and Charger, which have posted some good sales numbers in recent years.

Lutz attributed the success of the Camaro to designing more than just a retro car, but one with modern styling cues.

He said original clay models of the Camaro looked a lot like versions from the late 1960s, but then-chief executive officer Rick Wagoner told designers they should do more work.

GM showed Camaro buffs and collectors the second version and they criticized it sharply because the car didn't look like the early models.

"Not looking too much like a '67 turned out to be a good thing," Lutz said.

thestar.com

[Mitlov]

Good on them.  Now fix the interior (or introduce a Camaro-based Buick Riviera with a nice interior) and let's keep the trend going.

[articsteve]

In Canada, the manufacturer's suggested price is almost $27,000 (Canadian) for the V-6 model and $37,000 for the V-8 version. But V-8 sales still outpaced the V-6s by a wide margin in both countries.

"End result: 80 per cent of sales, V-8s," Lutz said.

I don't think that is particular good news being that only 20% of sales are V6 units.  Tells me that the suburban family is not picking the V6 Camaro as a second car unlike the V6 Mustang.  Maybe the convertible will correct that imbalance.

The US AutoTrader lists  6,891  new  2010 V8 Camaros for sale.   12,701  new 2010 V8 Mustangs.  7,717  new 2010 V8 Challengers

No surprise on the Mustang with the new V8 coming out for 2011.

[Erik]

Good on GM.

Shows that the interior is NOT the huge issue that many around here would like it to be. Especially if the buyers are spending upward of $40K on them.

V6 sales will likely go up in the future as more vehicles become available. Still very few Camaros in stock at the local dealers (except Rockets' down in Windsor. )

[EV Dan]

"The Canadian Auto Workers pressed GM to add another shift to meet demand but the company has rejected that idea."

That sucks. Keeping them in short supply doesn't give the buyer much leverage in terms of the purchase price. Also, why can't dealers have at least 1 V6 and 1 V8 demo on the floor?

[Roddy]

Good on GM.

Shows that the interior is NOT the huge issue that many around here would like it to be. Especially if the buyers are spending upward of $40K on them.

V6 sales will likely go up in the future as more vehicles become available. Still very few Camaros in stock at the local dealers (except Rockets' down in Windsor. )

LOL it shows that the type of person that would buy a camaro does not care about the interior. I'm pretty sure that nobody is going to be jumping ship from suburu, nissan, toyota or honda to buy one of these.

Also I personally believe that the camaro sales will be a very short sale phenomena but we'll see.

[Erik]

The "type of person"?
What exactly does that mean?

I figure it is an intelligent driving enthusiast who sees that they are getting great value for their money in a very nice performance car.

As for buyers of all of the other manufacturers you list, I agree they likely would not buy one. None of those companies has produced a car in this class (400+ HP, 2+2 for less than $40K).

[TopGun]

Jim Hall from an outfit called 2953 Analytics on AutoBlog stated that GM has found the Camaro to be great at retaining customers too as they moved out of their trucks.

[Roddy]

The "type of person"?
What exactly does that mean?

I figure it is an intelligent driving enthusiast who sees that they are getting great value for their money in a very nice performance car.

As for buyers of all of the other manufacturers you list, I agree they likely would not buy one. None of those companies has produced a car in this class (400+ HP, 2+2 for less than $40K).

A typical camaro buyer would be a GM loyalist, who wants big engines for a low price and cares little about quality... basically the same type of buyer that has always purchased Camaro's/Firebirds.

Anyone who wants a quality refined car, realizes that to get what they want, they are going to have to pay a higher price tag for equal performance.

I will also add that I think the retro styling will likely have a very short appeal life expectancy. I see falling from popularity as fast as fins did at the end of the 50's.

[TopGun]

A typical camaro buyer would be a GM loyalist, who wants big engines for a low price and cares little about quality... basically the same type of buyer that has always purchased Camaro's/Firebirds.

Anyone who wants a quality refined car, realizes that to get what they want, they are going to have to pay a higher price tag for equal performance.
.....

Absolutely no basis for this other than your opinion.

So more refinement than a direct injected VVT V6 making 304 hp getting 6.9 l/100 km through an independent suspension?

I also don't understand the "retro" styling comment.  The Challenger and Mini are retro...

[Mitlov]

I also don't understand the "retro" styling comment.  The Challenger and Mini are retro...

And the VW New Beetle, and the Mustang, and even the MB G-Class and SLS to an extent...nothing wrong with retro.

[Leviathan]

A typical camaro buyer would be a GM loyalist, who wants big engines for a low price and cares little about quality... basically the same type of buyer that has always purchased Camaro's/Firebirds.

Anyone who wants a quality refined car, realizes that to get what they want, they are going to have to pay a higher price tag for equal performance.
.....

Absolutely no basis for this other than your opinion.

So more refinement than a direct injected VVT V6 making 304 hp getting 6.9 l/100 km through an independent suspension?

I also don't understand the "retro" styling comment.  The Challenger and Mini are retro...

 

I'm surprised that the V8 is such a high percentage of the sales. The V6 + 6speed manual is lot of bang-for-the-buck.

[articsteve]

No surprise to me.  V6 Camaro in a manual would be an embarrassment.  No faster than a 5.7 Tundra and no exhaust sound.    How pathetic is that?  Great if looking like a poseur is your thing.

Just wait for when the kid in his mom's 2011 Mustang Secretary Special pulls along side ya with more HP and more torque.     That would be intolerable.

The V6 Camaro will shine when the ex soccer mom's latch onto the convertible and that cannot arrive soon enough.
 

[rrocket]

Good on GM.

Shows that the interior is NOT the huge issue that many around here would like it to be. Especially if the buyers are spending upward of $40K on them.

V6 sales will likely go up in the future as more vehicles become available. Still very few Camaros in stock at the local dealers (except Rockets' down in Windsor. )

I kid you not...there are FIVE at this little dealer I drive by everyday...including that nice white one with the cool gold stripe package on it.

[articsteve]

Ya, nobody is fighting over them here either.  As I posted earlier, there are 6800 new V8s listed in the US auto trader well below invoice.  Lutz talks about every GM model like it's a wild success.  That's his job now; pitchman.

Then Ford comes along with the 400 HP 2011 Mustang, which is obviously a better daily driver and IMO, put many potential V8 Camaro buyers back on the fence.

Personally, I like the Camaro the best, but only as a garage queen.  If it was my only car/daily driver, it would have to be the 2011 V8 stang.

[Leviathan]

No surprise to me.  V6 Camaro in a manual would be an embarrassment.  No faster than a 5.7 Tundra and no exhaust sound.    How pathetic is that?  Great if looking like a poseur is your thing.

Just wait for when the kid in his mom's 2011 Mustang Secretary Special pulls along side ya with more HP and more torque.     That would be intolerable.

The V6 Camaro will shine when the ex soccer mom's latch onto the convertible and that cannot arrive soon enough.
 

Now now, don't make johngenx come here with his potty mouth....

[TopGun]

No surprise to me.  V6 Camaro in a manual would be an embarrassment.  No faster than a 5.7 Tundra and no exhaust sound.    How pathetic is that?  Great if looking like a poseur is your thing.

Pretty pathetic because you obviously haven't driven one.  There's plenty of exhaust sound...it's just a weird sound if you're used to a V8.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYQexSPjnpY

[articsteve]

Pretty pathetic because you obviously haven't driven one.  There's plenty of exhaust sound...it's just a weird sound if you're used to a V8.

Not driven one, but have been standing right beside one when it took off out of the store and they are silent runners.  About as loud as my V6 Venza. 

I tell ya this V6 Camaro will be a boon for Flowmaster, Borla, et al.  Dudes who get into these V6s by misfortune will be seeking to a cat back system ASAP.  No question.

[EV Dan]

Not driven one, but have been standing right beside one when it took off out of the store and they are silent runners.  About as loud as my V6 Venza.

Wait till you get a floormat jammie 

Steve, if you are a car enthusiast, why are you annoyed every time a driver's car is made and is a big success?

[TopGun]

Not driven one, but have been standing right beside one when it took off out of the store and they are silent runners.  About as loud as my V6 Venza.

Wait till you get a floormat jammie 

Steve, if you are a car enthusiast, why are you annoyed every time a driver's car is made and is a big success?

'Cause he's not a driving enthusiast?