Author Topic: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems  (Read 1986 times)

Offline drederick

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Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« on: December 23, 2009, 10:09:30 am »
Go Toyota Go! This is a good read......

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-secrecy23-2009dec23,0,5601716.story

A Times investigation shows the world's largest automaker has delayed recalls and attempted to blame human error in cases where owners claimed vehicle defects.

During a routine test on its Sienna minivan in April 2003, Toyota Motor Corp. engineers discovered that a plastic panel could come loose and cause the gas pedal to stick, potentially making the vehicle accelerate out of control.

The automaker redesigned the part and by that June every 2004 model year Sienna off the assembly line came with the new panel. Toyota did not notify tens of thousands of people who had already bought vans with the old panel, however.

It wasn't until U.S. safety officials opened an investigation last year that Toyota acknowledged in a letter to regulators that the part could come loose and "lead to unwanted or sudden acceleration."

In January, nearly six years after discovering the potential hazard, the automaker recalled 26,501 vans made with the old panel.

In a statement to The Times, Toyota said that there was no defect in the Sienna and that "a safety recall was not deemed necessary" when it discovered the problem in 2003. The company called the replacement part "an additional safety measure."

A peerless reputation for quality and safety has helped Toyota become the world's largest automaker. But even as its sales have soared, the company has delayed recalls, kept a tight lid on disclosure of potential problems and attempted to blame human error in cases where owners claimed vehicle defects.

The automaker's handling of safety issues has come under scrutiny in recent months because of incidents of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles, which The Times has reported were involved in accidents causing 19 fatalities since 2001, more deaths from that problem than all other automakers combined.

After Toyota this fall announced its biggest recall to address the sudden-acceleration problem, it insisted publicly that no defect existed. That drew a rare public rebuke from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which chastised the automaker for making "inaccurate and misleading statements."

In the wake of Toyota's announcement of the massive recall, The Times examined some of the ways the automaker has dealt with safety problems in recent years and found that:

* The automaker knew of a dangerous steering defect in vehicles including the 4Runner sport utility vehicle for years before issuing a recall in Japan in 2004. But it told regulators no recall was necessary in the U.S., despite having received dozens of complaints from drivers. Toyota said a subsequent investigation led it to order a U.S. recall in 2005.

* Toyota has paid cash settlements to people who say their vehicles have raced out of control, sometimes causing serious accidents, according to consumers and their attorneys. Other motorists who complained of acceleration problems with their vehicles have received buybacks under lemon laws.

* Although the sudden acceleration issue erupted publicly only in recent months, it has been festering for nearly a decade. A computerized search of NHTSA records by The Times has found Toyota issued eight previous recalls related to unintended acceleration since 2000, more than any other automaker.

* A former Toyota lawyer who handled safety litigation has sued the automaker, accusing it of engaging in a "calculated conspiracy to prevent the disclosure of damaging evidence" as part of a scheme to "prevent evidence of its vehicles' structural shortcomings from becoming known" to plaintiffs lawyers, courts, NHTSA and the public.

As a result, plaintiffs attorneys are considering reopening dozens of product-liability suits against the automaker.

Toyota has called the allegations of the attorney, Dimitrios Biller, "both misleading and inaccurate" and noted that he is also suing another former employer. The company said it had "acted appropriately in product liability cases and in all reporting to federal safety regulators."

In a written statement to The Times, Toyota said that it strove to keep government officials and consumers informed about potential safety problems with its vehicles, which it says are tested to meet or exceed federal standards.

"Toyota has absolutely not minimized public awareness of any defect or issue with respect to its vehicles," the company said.

Currently, Toyota is a defendant in at least 10 lawsuits alleging unintended acceleration that caused five fatalities and four injuries. Two of those suits are seeking class-action status.


LOTS more at the link
blah blah blah Toyota blah blah blah I feel your pain; you've got a GM, it's worth squat and you owe on it. 

Dude, if the displacment is EXACT, it's not "all new".  The intake is different, the VVT is now on both sets of valves  In the automotive world "all new" often means somewhat different

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 02:38:17 pm »
GM is often slammed for failing to address known problems (if I recall correctly, one of their V6 engines had a known head gasket problem for more than 10 years...), but Toyota is sitting on potential problems that carry a huge safety risk...

Scary stuff. It's a good thing none of Toyota's vehicles appeal to me, because I would be highly uncomfortable knowing that if I do have an issue, they're going to try and blame it on me.  :o

Offline safristi

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 02:41:01 pm »
..is Artic inta the CHRISTMAS CHEER and blabbing................ :P
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline Winklovic

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 03:02:31 pm »

Offline articsteve

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 03:09:30 pm »
The secret to success in any corporation/organization is to keep a TIGHT LID on sensitive issues.

“Frankly, we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency,”     Billions for jets and pennies for vets; Harponi is MAGNIFICENT.

Offline Seafoam

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 03:15:40 pm »
 Just another :censor: disturbing thread if you ask me. ::)

Offline airbalancer

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 06:08:19 pm »
 :iagree:

Offline No H2O

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 06:19:57 pm »
I believe in conspiracy theories...no doubt the big three in their inability to compete are fueling these issues to bring down a successful auto company.

Or maybe they should not sell them to dumb people. I'd just apply the brakes and turn the ignition key to the off position, if they're "accelerating out of control".  ;)
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Offline Juke1

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 06:40:48 pm »
I believe in conspiracy theories...no doubt the big three in their inability to compete are fueling these issues to bring down a successful auto company.

Or maybe they should not sell them to dumb people. I'd just apply the brakes and turn the ignition key to the off position, if they're "accelerating out of control".  ;)


Do you realize how silly what you wrote sounds? Toyota has more stupid customers than anyone else, way to go.

Me personally, no more Toyotas ever again, because they do no fess up to their crap.
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. - Dale Carnegie

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Offline rrocket

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 06:41:42 pm »

Me personally, no more Toyotas ever again, because they do no fess up to their crap.

No more GMs either then I guess?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 06:43:21 pm by rrocket »
How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....

Offline No H2O

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 08:41:18 pm »
Me personally, no more Toyotas ever again, because they do no fess up to their crap.

That tells me that you're not very informed.

The big three invented "lets bury the problem" or have you not read "On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors" by John DeLorean. That was then...things are no different now.

You really have to wonder why a car company would have to stamp "Mark of Excellence" on a key, or advertise "Quality Is Job 1".  :rofl2:

Offline Trainman

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 09:42:49 pm »
I believe in conspiracy theories...no doubt the big three in their inability to compete are fueling these issues to bring down a successful auto company.

Or maybe they should not sell them to dumb people. I'd just apply the brakes and turn the ignition key to the off position, if they're "accelerating out of control".  ;)


Do you realize how silly what you wrote sounds? Toyota has more stupid customers than anyone else, way to go.

Me personally, no more Toyotas ever again, because they do no fess up to their crap.

As a Toyota owner, would you care to explain your comment please? 

Thanks, Tman.
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Offline Juke1

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2009, 06:38:06 am »
Me personally, no more Toyotas ever again, because they do no fess up to their crap.

That tells me that you're not very informed.

The big three invented "lets bury the problem" or have you not read "On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors" by John DeLorean. That was then...things are no different now.

You really have to wonder why a car company would have to stamp "Mark of Excellence" on a key, or advertise "Quality Is Job 1".  :rofl2:

...noticed what I drive?  and should that fail me I have many options without Toyota ever being a taught in my mind ;)   BTW I am very informed, you just made an assumption.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 06:45:01 am by Altima1 »

Offline Juke1

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2009, 06:44:28 am »
I believe in conspiracy theories...no doubt the big three in their inability to compete are fueling these issues to bring down a successful auto company.

Or maybe they should not sell them to dumb people. I'd just apply the brakes and turn the ignition key to the off position, if they're "accelerating out of control".  ;)


Do you realize how silly what you wrote sounds? Toyota has more stupid customers than anyone else, way to go.

Me personally, no more Toyotas ever again, because they do no fess up to their crap.

As a Toyota owner, would you care to explain your comment please? 

Thanks, Tman.

Pretty self explanatory Tman, hcrv wrote "Or maybe they should not sell them to dumb people" nice thing to say, hey?  The company has the highest percentage of out of control accelaration of all cars and this is the response.  I'll tell you that I do not believe in the mat crap period.

Offline Shnak

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2009, 08:49:44 am »
Who cares about what GM would or wouldn't have done in the same situation... the fact is that Toyota didn't want to recall 25000 vehicles that could potentially cause harm to its passengers. Why didn't they? Because they wanted to protect their perfect reliability reputation? "We're Toyota, we don't need recalls!" That's BS. With all their problems recently (mats, frames rotting, brakes not working in cold weather, and now this), and now them saying they want to cut 30% off of their parts costs, I really don't see why I'd pay a premium on Toyota products when they are no longer the most reliable vehicles on the market.

Toyota, oh how the mighty has fallen!

Offline drederick

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2009, 09:18:47 am »
Me personally, no more Toyotas ever again, because they do no fess up to their crap.

That tells me that you're not very informed.

The big three invented "lets bury the problem" or have you not read "On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors" by John DeLorean. That was then...things are no different now.

You really have to wonder why a car company would have to stamp "Mark of Excellence" on a key, or advertise "Quality Is Job 1".  :rofl2:

Just curious, when was that 'book' published exactly?

On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors
by Patrick J. Wright
avg rating 3.86 — 7 ratings — published 1990

geez 1990? is that the far far far past for GM?

whereas the issues that Toyota is hiding and being just plain unfair to consumers is occuring RIGHT NOW.

Good job Toyota way to go that extra mile of B.S.

Offline Erik

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2009, 10:28:16 am »
Me personally, no more Toyotas ever again, because they do no fess up to their crap.

That tells me that you're not very informed.

The big three invented "lets bury the problem" or have you not read "On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors" by John DeLorean. That was then...things are no different now.

You really have to wonder why a car company would have to stamp "Mark of Excellence" on a key, or advertise "Quality Is Job 1".  :rofl2:

Just curious, when was that 'book' published exactly?

On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors
by Patrick J. Wright
avg rating 3.86 — 7 ratings — published 1990

geez 1990? is that the far far far past for GM?

whereas the issues that Toyota is hiding and being just plain unfair to consumers is occuring RIGHT NOW.

Good job Toyota way to go that extra mile of B.S.

Actually, I think this is the one he is talking about:

http://www.amazon.ca/Clear-Day-You-General-Motors/dp/0960356207

From 1979.

But of course, any issue GM has ever had is currently relevant, while any issue that Toyota has is due to idiot customers.
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Offline safristi

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2009, 11:50:38 am »
... a suggested Holiday gift................. :shuffle:

Offline UmroAyyar

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2009, 12:25:21 pm »
So all the hate is for Toyota or the people who buy Toyota?

 ??? Xenophobia much?
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Offline Mitlov

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Re: Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2009, 12:33:22 pm »
So are we supposed to judge GM based not upon what we see today, but upon a book that was written before I was born?  Brands change.  Look at Hyundai.  Nobody blames them for the crud they pumped out 20 years ago.

So all the hate is for Toyota or the people who buy Toyota?

 ??? Xenophobia much?

I don't think anyone here is saying that Toyota buyers are stupid, or worse yet, hating people who buy Toyota.  Instead, it's a sarcastic response to certain people shrugging off the fact that Toyota has had more complaints as to unintended acceleration than other brands.  It's a response to the position that "there's no problem, it happens with every brand, and I could stop a car if the engine started to race."  The answer people are advancing is: "so if the Toyota isn't the problem, why the higher statistical rate of these claims about Toyotas specifically?"  (Meaning the car itself is the problem, not actually meaning that the drivers are the problems).

I personally am skeptical of the unintended acceleration claims against Toyota--I suspect that it's driver error compounded by media-driven panic, which in turn causes over-reporting of driver error with Toyotas specifically, which in turn creates the statistical discrepancy--but I had to respond to your post because I see absolutely no xenophobia in this thread.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 12:36:38 pm by Mitlov »
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