Author Topic: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America  (Read 1637 times)

Offline articsteve

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BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« on: November 23, 2009, 03:12:08 am »
Jason Stein
and Diana T. Kurylko
Automotive News
November 23, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

WOODCLIFF LAKE, N.J. -- BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America as it seeks to improve fuel efficiency and match the performance of its current six-cylinder gasoline engines.

BMW is considering diesels in a range of models, including its 1 series, 3 series and 5 series sedans and possibly the X3 crossover and Z4 roadster, said Tom Baloga, vice president of engineering for BMW of North America.

"You're going to see it in the 3 series, and the 5 series is a good possibility," Baloga said. "If the performance is sufficient in the X3, U.S. customers would likely accept it in the X5 as well."

Baloga did not disclose timing but said BMW will be ready to comply with emissions rules. Federal rules will regulate the amount of carbon dioxide per mile, based on an automaker's fleet average. The rules call for an average of 250 grams of C02 per mile by 2016, which equates to 35.5 mpg.

Baloga said BMW will seek diesel performance comparable to that of its current six-cylinder engines by using a turbocharged 2.0-liter model tuned for performance. In Europe BMW sells a 320d with a 2.0-liter turbocharged diesel.

"Our four-cylinder diesel will be so good that people will readily accept it as a replacement for six cylinders," Baloga said. "With the weight reduction, performance could be similar to the turbocharged six-cylinder [gasoline engine] if we pushed very hard."

Baloga said BMW will aim for a substantial increase in its diesel sales mix in North America.

"If we hit 10 to 20 percent, we would be happy," he said.

In Europe, 70 percent of BMW's sales are diesels.

With exhaust treatment, BMW's diesels will meet California emission standards as well as federal tailpipe emission rules. Baloga didn't disclose what technology would be used -- a diesel particulate filter or a selective catalytic reduction treatment with a refillable on-board urea tank as in the BMW 335d.

"The strategy for aftertreatment is to make it less expensive and less trouble," he said.

Unlike archrival Mercedes-Benz, which began selling diesels here in 1960, BMW waited until this year to introduce an ultraclean 50-state diesel engine. BMW's only prior U.S. diesel was the 524td, sold as a 1985 model.

BMW discontinued the model after selling 3,644 units in the United States. Demand fell off, and the reputation of diesels became tainted in the United States because of problems associated with diesels offered by General Motors in the 1980s.

Sales of the X5 xDrive35d and 335d, which are powered by a 3.0-liter, twin-turbo, six-cylinder in-line diesel, got off to a slow start. Diesels now represent 13 percent of total X5 sales but only 1.3 percent of 3-series sedan sales.

BMW launched a marketing campaign and offered a $4,500 rebate on both diesels during last summer's cash-for-clunkers program. The incentive continues through December. Through October, BMW sold 1,002 335d sedans and 2,706 X5 xDrive35d crossovers.

The 335d has an EPA rating of 23 mpg city/36 mpg highway -- 35 percent higher than the gasoline-engine model. The X5 xDrive35d is rated at 19 mpg city/26 mpg highway. BMW says the vehicle's performance is comparable to that of a gasoline V-8 engine but fuel economy is 37.5 percent better.
 
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Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 03:37:16 am »
I'm guessing that they'd be offering the _20d engine, a 2.0L turbodiesel making 177 horsepower at 4000 rpm and 258 lb-ft at 1750 rpm.  I think they might actually have some real success with that model.  I'd certainly be very interested in a 320d sedan with those performance numbers, a manual transmission, and sporty handling (i.e., I hope they don't go for ultra-low-rolling resistance tiers and Prius-esque suspension tuning just because it's "eco-friendly").

On the other hand, if they're even thinking of importing the _16d engine (116 horsepower), I wish them the best of luck.  I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would.
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Offline tpl

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 09:02:43 am »
I might well lay out the extra money for one of those rather than a Golf Diesel in a couple of years. 
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Offline ovr50

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 09:29:41 am »
Mitlov - "I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would."

US citizens may not, but I bet Canadians will. Did the poor GM diesels of some years back really sour ppl in the US that much?

I would take a diesel over a hybrid.
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Offline tpl

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 09:34:13 am »
Ovr I think Mitlov was specifically referring to the 116 bhp engine.   I wouldn't get one of those either, I'd want the 177 bhp... 3 series are heavy cars.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 09:54:00 am »
Quote
Baloga said BMW will aim for a substantial increase in its diesel sales mix in North America.

"If we hit 10 to 20 percent, we would be happy," he said.

Quote
Sales of the X5 xDrive35d and 335d, which are powered by a 3.0-liter, twin-turbo, six-cylinder in-line diesel, got off to a slow start. Diesels now represent 13 percent of total X5 sales but only 1.3 percent of 3-series sedan sales.

I wonder if things would have been different if they brought over the 2L diesel in the 3 series sedan and wagon.  I know I would have taken a look at a 3-wagon-diesel when shopping for the GTi. But with only the 335d available, I had zero interest.

I also wonder the same for the X5/X3?

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Offline tpl

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 10:10:22 am »
In an ideal world they'd manage to make the 177 bhp diesel run without urea injection. Frankly I don't give a flying f**k about California's air quality but I do want a car that won't suddenly refuse to run without an ( expensive) trip to the dealer.  As far as I am concerned the last gen diesels were clean enough.

Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2009, 11:07:32 am »
Mitlov - "I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would."

US citizens may not, but I bet Canadians will. Did the poor GM diesels of some years back really sour ppl in the US that much?

I would take a diesel over a hybrid.

Read the post again.  I'd happily drive a 320d, just not a 316d.  I like diesels, just not 116-horsepower ones.

Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 11:08:52 am »
In an ideal world they'd manage to make the 177 bhp diesel run without urea injection. Frankly I don't give a flying f**k about California's air quality but I do want a car that won't suddenly refuse to run without an ( expensive) trip to the dealer.  As far as I am concerned the last gen diesels were clean enough.

The original article sounded to me like they were going to put a particulate filter in like on the 2010 TDI.  It results in slightly less impressive fuel economy versus using urea injection, but it's a whole lot lower maintenance.  For an entry-level diesel model instead of a flagship diesel model like the 335d, I think that's the way to go.

Offline ovr50

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 11:13:06 am »
Mitlov - "I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would."

US citizens may not, but I bet Canadians will. Did the poor GM diesels of some years back really sour ppl in the US that much?

I would take a diesel over a hybrid.

Read the post again.  I'd happily drive a 320d, just not a 316d.  I like diesels, just not 116-horsepower ones.


Sorry, Mitlov, I did misread your post.

Offline Roddy

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 06:47:51 pm »
Mitlov - "I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would."

US citizens may not, but I bet Canadians will. Did the poor GM diesels of some years back really sour ppl in the US that much?

I would take a diesel over a hybrid.

Well if your goal is to use less crude oil, a diesel is not going to help considerably (if at all), where's a hybrid or EV, can help considerably.

Offline ovr50

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2009, 07:14:17 pm »
Mitlov - "I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would."

US citizens may not, but I bet Canadians will. Did the poor GM diesels of some years back really sour ppl in the US that much?

I would take a diesel over a hybrid.

Well if your goal is to use less crude oil, a diesel is not going to help considerably (if at all), where's a hybrid or EV, can help considerably.

A diesel gets better fuel economy than a gas engine; plus with the diesel, there is no energy cost for battery production and pollution from battery discard. Besides, since both diesel and hybrid is better than gas engine from an environment POV, why can't one pick and chose which one they would prefer?

Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2009, 10:03:44 pm »
Mitlov - "I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would."

US citizens may not, but I bet Canadians will. Did the poor GM diesels of some years back really sour ppl in the US that much?

I would take a diesel over a hybrid.

Well if your goal is to use less crude oil, a diesel is not going to help considerably (if at all), where's a hybrid or EV, can help considerably.

You're not considering the fact that biodiesel is widely available in my area and becoming quite reasonably priced too.

Offline Roddy

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2009, 10:19:24 pm »
Mitlov - "I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would."

US citizens may not, but I bet Canadians will. Did the poor GM diesels of some years back really sour ppl in the US that much?

I would take a diesel over a hybrid.

Well if your goal is to use less crude oil, a diesel is not going to help considerably (if at all), where's a hybrid or EV, can help considerably.

A diesel gets better fuel economy than a gas engine; plus with the diesel, there is no energy cost for battery production and pollution from battery discard. Besides, since both diesel and hybrid is better than gas engine from an environment POV, why can't one pick and chose which one they would prefer?

A diesel does get better fuel economy than a gasoline engine but that margin will be considerably reduced when lean burn gas engines emerge. Also less diesel can be refined from a barrel of oil than can gasoline, so overall you're not reducing your dependence on crude, where's with EV's you can run them off the grid which could conceivably use a number of cleaner energy technologies.

There is no question that battery technology is the future. Sure it does have problems associated with it, but overall it is the only viable solution.

Offline Roddy

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2009, 10:20:41 pm »
Mitlov - "I wouldn't drive one, and I doubt many North Americans would."

US citizens may not, but I bet Canadians will. Did the poor GM diesels of some years back really sour ppl in the US that much?

I would take a diesel over a hybrid.

Well if your goal is to use less crude oil, a diesel is not going to help considerably (if at all), where's a hybrid or EV, can help considerably.

You're not considering the fact that biodiesel is widely available in my area and becoming quite reasonably priced too.

Do you honestly think that enough biodiesel can be produced in north america to run a significant percentage of vehicles on it?

Offline rrocket

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2009, 10:24:26 pm »

A diesel does get better fuel economy than a gasoline engine but that margin will be considerably reduced when lean burn gas engines emerge. Also less diesel can be refined from a barrel of oil than can gasoline, so overall you're not reducing your dependence on crude, where's with EV's you can run them off the grid which could conceivably use a number of cleaner energy technologies.


Indeed.  My lean burn Insight gets 90+ MPG when cruising at 80km/h.  I still can't believe it.
How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....

Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2009, 11:26:34 pm »
Do you honestly think that enough biodiesel can be produced in north america to run a significant percentage of vehicles on it?

Soybean-based biodiesel is just a stop-gap until algae-based biodiesel takes off:

Quote
Algae cost more per unit mass yet can yield over 30 times more energy per unit area than other, second-generation biofuel crops.  One biofuels company has claimed that algae can produce more oil in an area the size of a two car garage than a football field of soybeans, because almost the entire algal organism can use sunlight to produce lipids, or oil.  The United States Department of Energy estimates that if algae fuel replaced all the petroleum fuel in the United States, it would require 15,000 square miles (40,000 km2).  This is less than 1⁄7 the area of corn harvested in the United States in 2000.
...
As of 2008, such fuels remain too expensive to replace other commercially available fuels, with the cost of various algae species typically between US$5–10 per kilogram.  But several companies and government agencies are funding efforts to reduce capital and operating costs and make algae oil production commercially viable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

Offline rrocket

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2009, 11:27:59 pm »
Do you honestly think that enough biodiesel can be produced in north america to run a significant percentage of vehicles on it?

Soybean-based biodiesel is just a stop-gap until algae-based biodiesel takes off:

Quote
Algae cost more per unit mass yet can yield over 30 times more energy per unit area than other, second-generation biofuel crops.  One biofuels company has claimed that algae can produce more oil in an area the size of a two car garage than a football field of soybeans, because almost the entire algal organism can use sunlight to produce lipids, or oil.  The United States Department of Energy estimates that if algae fuel replaced all the petroleum fuel in the United States, it would require 15,000 square miles (40,000 km2).  This is less than 1⁄7 the area of corn harvested in the United States in 2000.
...
As of 2008, such fuels remain too expensive to replace other commercially available fuels, with the cost of various algae species typically between US$5–10 per kilogram.  But several companies and government agencies are funding efforts to reduce capital and operating costs and make algae oil production commercially viable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

If anyone is interested...there's a VERY good article about bio-diesel from Algae in this month's Popular Mechanics.

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2009, 06:31:05 am »

A diesel does get better fuel economy than a gasoline engine but that margin will be considerably reduced when lean burn gas engines emerge. Also less diesel can be refined from a barrel of oil than can gasoline, so overall you're not reducing your dependence on crude, where's with EV's you can run them off the grid which could conceivably use a number of cleaner energy technologies.


Indeed.  My lean burn Insight gets 90+ MPG when cruising at 80km/h.  I still can't believe it.

Is it pretty flat were you are ?
I find we take a bit of hit driving in hilly areas from 4 to 5 l/100km
And why do you always hit the red light at the bottom of the hill ???

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Re: BMW will offer four-cylinder diesel engines in North America
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2009, 12:31:13 pm »
And while you're at it BMW can we get the 1 series hatchback, please? Maybe with a diesel to boot. Audi brought the A3, Benz the B-Class, Lexus is coming up with a hatch, your turn Munich.