Every GM Car Subsadised by Taxpayers for $12,200

[Honda Owner]

http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=1132&org_name=NTU

I don't know what other people think but I would have rather had that money go into better schools or health care. Maybe better public transportation, rec centres or bike lanes.

But I didn't get a choice in the matter.

[Leviathan]

 

[Juke1]

poor pookie

[Honda Owner]

poor pookie

This will someday affect the bottom line of your income. If that is the way  you want your tax dollars spent, so be it. That HST you get next year will be partly used to subadise GM cars. Hope you are happy ponying up!

[articsteve]

poor pookie

This will someday affect the bottom line of your income. If that is the way  you want your tax dollars spent, so be it. That HST you get next year will be partly used to subadise GM cars. Hope you are happy ponying up!

HO: ppl don't comprehend government debt.  The Harper CONS have somehow convinced the vast majority of citizens, obviously many here, that the billions that they dump down the drain on GM and Chrysler has no consequence.

 The federal debt will jump back over the half-trillion mark this Sunday evening, according to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

The first tax increase will be via the Federal payroll tax.  The Ontario HST is gonna hit hard.

Oh ya, and Saab lost $5,000 USD on every car they made for the past 8 years.

[TopGun]

Thank-you for sharing this for the 8,007th time.

What a surprise that Arctic HO and Arctic Steve are in here...

[Greg B.]

http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=1132&org_name=NTU

I don't know what other people think but I would have rather had that money go into better schools or health care. Maybe better public transportation, rec centres or bike lanes.

But I didn't get a choice in the matter.

Of course, the fact that you live in Canada and not the USA, where those numbers are from, might have something to do with that as well.

I wonder how the people of Japan feel about the massive assistance their government provides to their auto industry...

[Honda Owner]

I wonder how the people of Japan feel about the massive assistance their government provides to their auto industry...

Could you provide  a link, please, Greg?

[articsteve]

I wonder how the people of Japan feel about the massive assistance their government provides to their auto industry...

The auto industry in Japan is a success.  The auto industry in America is a failure.

PPL are ok with spending if they WIN.  PPL are not ok with spending if they LOSE.  
Currently, much of the anti foreigner thing in the USA is because Americans aren't feeling like WINNERS these days.  Same thing up here, although it will accelerate here very soon because of our deficits.

Nissan just received a massive subsidy from the State of Tenesses.  I posted the amount on another thread, but it's BILLIONS.  At least they have a good chance at not losing their investment.  

I'd so much rather have given Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, the 8 BILLION to expand here rather than waste it on GM and Chrysler who will shut down operations here to move them to Mexico within 3 years.

[TopGun]

I'd so much rather have given Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, the 8 BILLION to expand here rather than waste it on GM and Chrysler who will shut down operations here to move them to Mexico within 3 years.

So is this like Volt vapourware?  I'll pay Arctic HO's card - Where's the link?  Where's the link?  Where's the link?

[rrocket]

I'd so much rather have given Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, the 8 BILLION to expand here rather than waste it on GM and Chrysler who will shut down operations here to move them to Mexico within 3 years.

So is this like Volt vapourware?  I'll pay Arctic HO's card - Where's the link?  Where's the link?  Where's the link?

I can't back up what Steve says, however here in Windsor, land of the CAW, Ford has at times threatened to move their stuff to Mexico.  I don't doubt it...I mean with the wages they pay there and the good success in build quality that Ford has achieved with their Fusion there I could see it happening..

[toolatecrew]

Just wait until GM has its IPO. Then you can buy up some of the equity in GM that you already own!

[Patate]

This article is flawed on so many levels, but I won't even debate this because anyone with a minimum of logic already knows that.

For the record, I prefer saving our auto industry with public money than pay those welfare queens, paid to wear uniforms and to lose war overseas.  I'd rather bail the US auto industry than give my money every month to those who don't WANT to work an honest job, and who works for the brother in-law while recieving my money every month, while I pay for their complete insurance.  Keep in mind I am a student and I have to pay for all those assholes in the army and in welfare.

I paid for the mass transit system in my taxes, when I bought my car, etc.. and they have the guts to ask me for money to use it.  THAT is a fraud.

Saving the economy by bailing out GM and Chrysler is not a fraud.  That is called an investment.

[rrocket]

Saving the economy by bailing out GM and Chrysler is not a fraud.  That is called an investment.

It's not the fault of the men and women in military.  They get paid regardless whether they are here or there.  Just like our other taxes (municipal though) that go towards police, fire, garbage, etc.  Oh and whether you accept it or not, you're just another one sucking off the tit of those who pay taxes, Mr. Student.  Unless of course you go to a privately funded university.

As far as an investment?  Most expect a favorable return when they make an investment.  And generally you are not forced into making an investment.  We had no choice.  And we are unlikely to get that any favorable return, despite what the propaganda from the CAW tells you.  Further, you complain about subsidizing people with NO MONEY (welfare), but yet you have no problems subsidizing people making $70,000+ a year at a car plant.  Seems very odd.

[articsteve]

I can't back up what Steve says, however here in Windsor, land of the CAW, Ford has at times threatened to move their stuff to Mexico.  I don't doubt it...I mean with the wages they pay there and the good success in build quality that Ford has achieved with their Fusion there I could see it happening..

Ford is heavy into Mexico with the Fusion and half of the Super Duty F series @ $4.50 per hour for assemblers.  

 forecasting firm CSM Worldwide predicts that in 2010, the Detroit 3 will only build 49 percent of the cars assembled in the United States, a sharp drop from 59 percent in 2008.

That 10% will have gone to Mexico, not Canada.

[tenpenny]

The theory is that the money dumped into GM and Chrysler are 'investments' that pay off in several ways;  income tax collected from the (supposed) over paid union workforce; taxes collected along the way in the manufacturing chain, and also savings in not having to pay unemployment to the workers who are still employed.

Whether it works out on the plus side, time will tell, but to make simplistic, moronic statements that every GM car is subsidized by $12,000, or more stupid comments about Harper, is pointless. 

It will, hopefully, be an investment that will pay off.  It's hardly worse than investing in health care for people too stupid and lazy to look after themselves.

[rrocket]

The Canadian bailout for Chrysler alone works out to $340,000 PER employee.  Would have been cheaper to send them to university for 4 years.......

You do know that for that $3.2 billion paid to Chrysler, we only got 2% and only one member on the board, right?  Terrible "investment"....

[Juke1]

The theory is that the money dumped into GM and Chrysler are 'investments' that pay off in several ways;  income tax collected from the (supposed) over paid union workforce; taxes collected along the way in the manufacturing chain, and also savings in not having to pay unemployment to the workers who are still employed.

Whether it works out on the plus side, time will tell, but to make simplistic, moronic statements that every GM car is subsidized by $12,000, or more stupid comments about Harper, is pointless. 

It will, hopefully, be an investment that will pay off.  It's hardly worse than investing in health care for people too stupid and lazy to look after themselves.

Ya, like the idiots I see having a cigarette in pyjamas outside the hospital and connected to some IV 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Lots of out to lunch assumptions to get to that $12k figure.

... we'll just make a list of all NTU's assumptions used to come up with the $12,200 per car figure plus our own analysis of how many of their assumptions are full of crap:

    * GM will sell 5.06 million cars in 2009/2010 combined.
      (NTU's numbers on GM sales for 2010 are okay based on a SAAR of 10.5 million, the reality is they'll possibly do worse than the 2.31 million cars and instead do 2.25 million.)

    * GMAC will loan no money back to finance a car to anyone who is also a taxpayer
      (They will)

    * GM will have the same market share in 2010 it had in 2008
      (Almost certainly not. It'll probably be worse)

    * Total vehicle sales will reach 10.5 million in 2009
      (More like 10.7 million as of late October)

    * Total vehicle sales will reach 12.5 million in 2010
      (Maybe.)

    * GM will not pay the $6.7 billion back
      (GM's already said it plans to start paying back the loans at the end of this year and even GM's not that PR-illiterate. We think.)

    * GM will never pay any loan back
      (See above.)

    * GMAC will never pay any loan back
      (GMAC has an unfair advantage according to the NTU study itself, therefore we assume it'll remain in business long enough to pay some portion of the loan back.)

    * GM will not sell any cars after 2010
      (OK, here's the real silly part of the study. We all know GM will more than likely still sell cars after 2010, even if they're cars we wish they wouldn't sell.)


Source

[dr_spock]

Ya, like the idiots I see having a cigarette in pyjamas outside the hospital and connected to some IV 

Like nicotine, government subsidies can be a hard habit to kick once you start.