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Dexer
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 11:42:18 pm » |
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This is a truly bizarre story that's getting a lot of play here in Winnipeg because one of the girls was from nearby Brandon. The local TV stations sent crews to North Dakota to cover the story.
When you look at the scene in daylight, it's just mind boggling.
There are tire tracks leading into a pond on farm with a nice little house near the water. There is no embankment or cliff for the jeep to drop down. It didn't roll over. The girls weren't incapacitated by some high speed accident or event. The jeep just drove into the water. It plain and simple just drove into the water.
So it drives into the water and we know that at least TWO cell phone calls were placed from the jeep. Imagine...the vehicle drives into a small farm pond, fully upright and the girls have the time and ability to place cell phones calls. And they all drown. Young, college athletes and they drown in what is estimated to be a pond perhaps 12ft deep.
One can only assume that this must be the result of disorientation and panic caused by the pitch black prairie night.
If this had happened during daylight hours (well, it wouldn't have because they would have seen the pond, but bear with me), the girls would likely have cursed the damage to the Jeep and then had a good laugh about driving into a pond. They would have understood that they were in a small pond,a few feet from shore and within spitting distance of a house.
It's just hard to believe that they died this way. |
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Turbo Bob
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 11:49:26 pm » |
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It's not that hard to believe. You wouldn't have to be going fast at all to go beyond the reach of the tires.
So they drove into water deep enough to sink the car, in the pitch black, in the cold. Car starts to sink, girls don't think to open the doors immediately. Pressure builds, you drown, slowly.
In that video (and in part 1) Hammond tried everything, nothing worked other than opening the doors as soon as it hit the water.
And glass is stronger than you think. I would say even in daylight they would have been in trouble if they had still ended up in the water. |
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Power is how fast you hit the wall... Torque is how far you take the wall with you! |
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articsteve
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 12:31:16 am » |
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I find nothing about this incident puzzling. Survival is instinct. Some ppl have it and some ppl don't. Just like some ppl are natural drivers and some ppl no matter what resources are made available will always suck.
IMO, if the exact same occurrence happened to the three individually at least one of the victims would have escaped from the vehicle and survived.
However, women make decisions collectively. Obviously due to the cell calls they were discussing/deciding the situation. I can just imagine one of the occupants immediately moving to open the door on pure instinct alone while another occupant screaming that would let water in. Now that person (door opener) has lost touch with their "instinct" and has fallen pray to the the other that has circumed to fear.
If it had been 3 guys some of them would have made it out because guys don't act collectively in survival situations. They tend to invoke the "Fack You" course of action and disregard the wishes of others. |
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“Frankly, we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency,” Billions for jets and pennies for vets; Harponi is MAGNIFICENT.
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rrocket
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 12:42:10 am » |
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Ok...
I remember seeing a TV program (I Survived??) and on it they said that the water pressure against the car doors can make them difficult to open. Maybe these women were to weak to open the doors? And if the cars had power windows...is it possible the windows were shorted out by the water?
Otherwise..I am amazed these women could not get out..Was there alcohol involved by chance? |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 12:44:35 am by rrocket »
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How fast is my Supra? I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....
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articsteve
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 12:50:28 am » |
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Maybe these women were to weak to open the doors?Take a look at the woman on the left. Have you ever seen an adult woman's softball team.  I will add that if your vehicle flips over and comes to rest on it's roof even in only 4 feet of water you are most likely a goner. There is always some sediment/sand/rocks on the bottom and that sediment will wedge the door edges shut. |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 01:04:58 am by articsteve »
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“Frankly, we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency,” Billions for jets and pennies for vets; Harponi is MAGNIFICENT.
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Turbo Bob
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2009, 07:31:34 am » |
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Rr did you watch the video? Most men wouldn't have been able to open the doors either. |
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Power is how fast you hit the wall... Torque is how far you take the wall with you! |
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TopGun
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 11:44:12 am » |
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So they drove into water deep enough to sink the car, in the pitch black, in the cold. Car starts to sink, girls don't think to open the doors immediately. Pressure builds, you drown, slowly
In the pitch black, they may not have even known they were sinking. Might explain the phone calls. Did they think they were just stuck? Survival is instinct only when your brain realizes there is a problem. |
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If it flies, floats or f#%&s...rent it.
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mrthompson
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 02:38:42 pm » |
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A friend of a friend's mother rolled her vehicle into a water-filled ditch. She came very close to drowning. (Sorry, but I can't recall any more details.) |
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rrocket
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 05:45:25 pm » |
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Rr did you watch the video? Most men wouldn't have been able to open the doors either.
Yea, but that midget is smaller than most women...So I put him in the category of women...  |
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How fast is my Supra? I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....
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Wolverine
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 08:48:59 pm » |
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Mythbusters also digged into this. They realized that, at least on the Taurus they where using, power windows were still working even with the car full of water. In this case one would just need to open the windows and swim out of the car.
Anyway, as Hammond proved, water reached half of the door after few seconds of the car being dropped to the water, it gives a really short time to open the door before it's full covered. |
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"If you wanna make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make a change."
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HeliDriver
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 09:48:39 pm » |
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My mother bought me one of those LifeHammers as a gift. Ten years later and it's still sitting on a shelf in the garage. Of course, the odds that I'll ever need it are miniscule, but I'll sure feel stupid if one day I was wishing I had it handy. What a horrible way to go.  |
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The Mighty Duck
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2009, 12:03:37 am » |
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I recall seeing an old car (a British Layland, I think?) on TV that had electric windows and hand cranks. In a situation like this, having those hand cranks would surely be something to be thankful for.
I wonder if there is anything in the interior within reach of the driver that could be feasible redesigned to also serve as a glass breaker? The seatbelt clip comes to mind for some reason... |
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Demosthenes [noun], dem-aws-thene-s
1) (384 BC – 322 BC) the greatest of the Ancient Greek orators
2) pseudonym used by Valentine Wiggin in Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game to alter the events of world history
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vdk
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 12:08:57 am » |
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If the car's full of water good luck getting enough force to break a window, how hard can you punch something underwater? |
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rrocket
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2009, 12:14:47 am » |
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If the car's full of water good luck getting enough force to break a window, how hard can you punch something underwater?
I practiced that finger length punching technique like Uma Thurman did in Kill Bill 2, so I'm all set... |
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How fast is my Supra? I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....
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Dexer
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2009, 01:18:12 am » |
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I have an odd compulsion to be prepared for unlikely events. I never leave the house without a folding knife and my stormproof lighter. It just seems that the ability to cut through things and make a fire is something you should always be ready to do  . Every car I've owned has a Kabar pilot survival knife in the glove compartment. The Kabar has a steel "skull crusher" pommel that can be used as a hammer. I actually started doing this because my Triumph had a variety of British quality problems that made a knife a handy thing (like cutting a length of extra fuel line when the one on the car fails...and, yes, I carry extra fuel line). Ironically, the Triumph is the safest car to drive into a pond...you just float out the top. But every car has a Kabar .  |
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swishguy
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« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2009, 09:11:10 am » |
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The Nuefelds live down the lane from me. I know them well. Great family that don,t deserve this. Funeral is this sunday. |
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Canada
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Location: Anytown
Posts: 86
 
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« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2009, 09:23:31 am » |
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Tragic absolutely. Assuming you were able to release the seat belt by the time the water level inside the car had reached ones head the pressure would probably be less than initially? At that point perhaps the use of your legs might bring more success to opening the door(s). I guess the more people in the car the less success one may have. It's easy to speculate now but I am sure if you are in the middle of it it would be hard to fight panic and remain calm long enough to get yourself out of a jam. Maybe manufacturers should consider an emergency release not unlike something in an airplane? The cost of implementing something like that would be too much considering these things do not happen very often. They could not have known how deep they were going down because if they had guessed that they were going under water they would not have wasted their time making a phone call. |
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blur911
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« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2009, 09:49:17 am » |
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They could not have known how deep they were going down because if they had guessed that they were going under water they would not have wasted their time making a phone call.
How often do we hear "Remain calm and wait for help". If it were me in a sinking vehicle the last thing I'd think to do is call 911 and ask for help, I'd be getting the hell out of there right now, not dialing my phone as the water rose. Society is doing it's best to remove our survival instinct and get us to call people trained to help, it doesn't always work. |
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