Acura confirms Euro Honda Accord Tourer coming as TSX sport wagon!

[server]

looks like a 9-5 sport combi

[johngenx]

So, it's only going to be sold here as a $40K Acura wagon?  Big bummer.  A $25K Accord Touring (don't use the wagon word) with a four cylinder driveline would be interesting.  But, margins are much, much thinner selling it as a $25K car vs. a $40K car.  Too bad.

[Hank Horsey]

A $25K Accord Touring (don't use the wagon word) with a four cylinder driveline would be interesting.  But, margins are much, much thinner selling it as a $25K car vs. a $40K car. 

I agree. There's a niche to fill since they jacked up the Outback and pimped it out like a crossover. If Subaru doesn't bring a Legacy wagon to Canada, there won't be any Japanese wagons left. (Maybe the Lancer Sportback, but it's too small and too far out of the mainstream.)

[Mitlov]

Well, I put the VW's in the premium pile...

I suppose what I meant to say is that amongst the mainstream/reliable/cheap brands, there's only the Elantra Touring... I wish Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai/Kia, Ford or GM would offer a wagon variant of their mid-size sedans... or that Mazda would bring back the 6 wagon.

Is $23k not mainstream enough for you?  I'd call the far-more-expensive Passat VR6 "premium," but a base-engined Jetta still strikes me as pretty mass-market.

As for reliability, the MkV Rabbit 2.5 (the same car mechanically as the base-engined Jetta SportWagen) actually got a "far better than average" from Consumer Reports.  Not just "better than average" (a half-full red circle), "far better than average" (a full red circle).  VW's made huge strides in recent years, particularly with that model, and reliability shouldn't be counted against it one iota.

http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/consumer-reports-annual-reliability-report/med/

[Mitlov]

I agree. There's a niche to fill since they jacked up the Outback and pimped it out like a crossover. If Subaru doesn't bring a Legacy wagon to Canada, there won't be any Japanese wagons left. (Maybe the Lancer Sportback, but it's too small and too far out of the mainstream.)

Good thing Japan doesn't have a monopoly on quality then.  The Elantra Touring and the Jetta SportWagen are both great cars.

[IceAndFire]

Isn't the Jeta SportWagen now the Golf Wagon for 2010?  Either way seems like a pretty good vehicle they have going there.  Decently sized and very usable.

The Elantra Touring I've been impressed with every time I see one.  Looks very good overall although it looks best in the sport configuration with the 17in tires.

[Mitlov]

Isn't the Jeta SportWagen now the Golf Wagon for 2010?  Either way seems like a pretty good vehicle they have going there.  Decently sized and very usable.

Yep, it appears that they changed the name for the MkVI. 

http://www.newgolf.ca/

[Mitlov]

changes will be made to bring the design in-line with Acura's current styling language (read: it will receive a variation of the love/loath shield grille), and equipment levels will change to meet U.S. expectations.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/30/u-s-acura-tsx-sport-wagon-not-motivated-by-honda-crosstour-feed/

Translation:  The TSX Sportwagon will be electronics-loaded, expensive, and fugly.

[MKII]

So, it's only going to be sold here as a $40K Acura wagon?  Big bummer.  A $25K Accord Touring (don't use the wagon word) with a four cylinder driveline would be interesting.  But, margins are much, much thinner selling it as a $25K car vs. a $40K car.  Too bad.

Should of/could of been an H http://www.auto123.com/en/news/car-news/scoop-2010-honda-accord-cuv?model=Accord&carid=1102300100&artid=103099

[Shnak]

Well, I put the VW's in the premium pile...

I suppose what I meant to say is that amongst the mainstream/reliable/cheap brands, there's only the Elantra Touring... I wish Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai/Kia, Ford or GM would offer a wagon variant of their mid-size sedans... or that Mazda would bring back the 6 wagon.

Is $23k not mainstream enough for you?  I'd call the far-more-expensive Passat VR6 "premium," but a base-engined Jetta still strikes me as pretty mass-market.

As for reliability, the MkV Rabbit 2.5 (the same car mechanically as the base-engined Jetta SportWagen) actually got a "far better than average" from Consumer Reports.  Not just "better than average" (a half-full red circle), "far better than average" (a full red circle).  VW's made huge strides in recent years, particularly with that model, and reliability shouldn't be counted against it one iota.

http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/consumer-reports-annual-reliability-report/med/

$23k is mainstream, but servicing cars at a VW dealership is still at a premium... you don't get $30 oil changes there.

johngenx has it exactly right... I would be all over an Accord touring at $25k. At $40k for the Acura, I'll have to wait for a lease return...

[Mitlov]

$23k is mainstream, but servicing cars at a VW dealership is still at a premium... you don't get $30 oil changes there.

You can pay for a lot of oil changes with the $2,000 between the Jetta's starting price and the $25k starting price you would pay for an Acura wagon.

johngenx has it exactly right... I would be all over an Accord touring at $25k. At $40k for the Acura, I'll have to wait for a lease return...

Well I'd like an M3 sedan for $19,000, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.  The TSX sedan starts at $35,000.  Expect a wagon to be a teeny bit more, not $10,000 less.  Trunks aren't THAT expensive

[Shnak]

What I'm saying is that HONDA should sell it for $25k. A base Accord is around $25k, add $1k to that and make it a wagon.

With that said, I love the Jetta wagon, and if it had a decent base engine, I'd be very interested. As it is, the VW 2.5L just doesn't compare well to its competitors' 2.4L engines (Sonata, Accord and Camry) in terms of fuel economy and overall refinement. As I see it, all three of VW's engines offered in the Golf/Jetta lineup have pros and cons, while the competitors 2.4L engines have close to no con's, IMO at least.

[tpl]

What I'm saying is that HONDA should sell it for $25k. A base Accord is around $25k, add $1k to that and make it a wagon.

With that said, I love the Jetta wagon, and if it had a decent base engine, I'd be very interested. As it is, the VW 2.5L just doesn't compare well to its competitors' 2.4L engines (Sonata, Accord and Camry) in terms of fuel economy and overall refinement. As I see it, all three of VW's engines offered in the Golf/Jetta lineup have pros and cons, while the competitors 2.4L engines have close to no con's, IMO at least.

Have not found a "con" with the 2.0T yet.

[airbalancer]

$23k is mainstream, but servicing cars at a VW dealership is still at a premium... you don't get $30 oil changes there.

You can pay for a lot of oil changes with the $2,000 between the Jetta's starting price and the $25k starting price you would pay for an Acura wagon.

johngenx has it exactly right... I would be all over an Accord touring at $25k. At $40k for the Acura, I'll have to wait for a lease return...

Well I'd like an M3 sedan for $19,000, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.  The TSX sedan starts at $35,000.  Expect a wagon to be a teeny bit more, not $10,000 less.  Trunks aren't THAT expensive

Boy cars cheaper in States I think Ovr 50 paid more a lot more then 19gs for his M3

[Mitlov]

What I'm saying is that HONDA should sell it for $25k. A base Accord is around $25k, add $1k to that and make it a wagon.

Isn't the Euro Accord a more expensive platform than the North American Accord?  That's what I thought, though I could be wrong.  So even if you de-contented the amenities of the TSX wagon to that of the North American Accord, it wouldn't be just $1,000 more expensive than the North American Accord.

With that said, I love the Jetta wagon, and if it had a decent base engine, I'd be very interested. As it is, the VW 2.5L just doesn't compare well to its competitors' 2.4L engines (Sonata, Accord and Camry) in terms of fuel economy and overall refinement. As I see it, all three of VW's engines offered in the Golf/Jetta lineup have pros and cons, while the competitors 2.4L engines have close to no con's, IMO at least.

How about the Jetta wagon TDI?  Starts at $26,800, and I'll bet you'll save a thousand dollars or so in gas within the first three years, so it's in your price range.  Plus, it depreciates slower than the 2.5, so it's more affordable there too.  All in all, the TDI looks more expensive on paper than the 2.5, but it's not really any more expensive to own, if you ask me.

As for refinement, the new clean diesel is worlds ahead of the old TDI.  Try it before you dismiss it.  The coworker who sold me the Jetta?  He drove a used MDX for two years, and he just bought a 2009 MkV Jetta TDI and is in love with it.  I haven't been in it myself yet, but I think he would have mentioned if he thought it lacked refinement at all.

[Hank Horsey]

Good thing Japan doesn't have a monopoly on quality then.  The Elantra Touring and the Jetta SportWagen are both great cars.

I completely agree. I nearly bought an Elantra hatch a few years ago, but it didn't quite have the headroom I needed (I'm 6' 5".) The new Elantra Touring is great (and not even ugly) and I think the Rabbit is brilliant. I would have no hesitation buying a late model VW and I've been a fan of Hyundai for years. But neither of these cars are as big as an Outback or an Accord. If you need a family car with legroom and headroom (and I do), but don't necessarily want an SUV or crossover (and I don't, necessarily), pickings are slim. The Fit and Golf are great cars too, but they don't do you any good if you're looking for a full-sized wagon, do they?

I'll definitely consider a Passat wagon when the time comes. If Malibu and Sonata have wagons too I'll be a happy man.

[johngenx]

How about the Jetta wagon TDI?  Starts at $26,800, and I'll bet you'll save a thousand dollars or so in gas within the first three years, so it's in your price range.

I'd be torn between an Accord Touring and Golf TDI wagon.  Honda has an advantage in perceived reliability (I'm not up on VW's latest models) but they both have super-high resale, so that's a wash.

VW dealers suck donkey balls for service and ability to solve problems should they arise.  Labour rates and parts prices are more like exotic German, not "regular" cars.  But, the same is true for Honda dealers.  Servicing a Honda "by the book" is also an expensive proposition, and the arrogance of Honda dealers in both the sales and service departments is off the charts.

[Shnak]

What I'm saying is that HONDA should sell it for $25k. A base Accord is around $25k, add $1k to that and make it a wagon.

With that said, I love the Jetta wagon, and if it had a decent base engine, I'd be very interested. As it is, the VW 2.5L just doesn't compare well to its competitors' 2.4L engines (Sonata, Accord and Camry) in terms of fuel economy and overall refinement. As I see it, all three of VW's engines offered in the Golf/Jetta lineup have pros and cons, while the competitors 2.4L engines have close to no con's, IMO at least.

Have not found a "con" with the 2.0T yet.

Premium fuel, for one. Higher fuel consumption compared to competitors (remember, I'm interested in a 4-cylinder, so I'm comparing VW's options against its competitors 4-cylinder engines). And a turbo engine inherently costs more in maintenance and long-term repairs. Oh, and it's not offered in the Golf Wagon... so that's a pretty big con. With all that said, it's certainly a very good engine; it just can't compare to a non-turbo'ed 4-cylinder engine in many aspects.

[Shnak]

What I'm saying is that HONDA should sell it for $25k. A base Accord is around $25k, add $1k to that and make it a wagon.

Isn't the Euro Accord a more expensive platform than the North American Accord?  That's what I thought, though I could be wrong.  So even if you de-contented the amenities of the TSX wagon to that of the North American Accord, it wouldn't be just $1,000 more expensive than the North American Accord.

With that said, I love the Jetta wagon, and if it had a decent base engine, I'd be very interested. As it is, the VW 2.5L just doesn't compare well to its competitors' 2.4L engines (Sonata, Accord and Camry) in terms of fuel economy and overall refinement. As I see it, all three of VW's engines offered in the Golf/Jetta lineup have pros and cons, while the competitors 2.4L engines have close to no con's, IMO at least.

How about the Jetta wagon TDI?  Starts at $26,800, and I'll bet you'll save a thousand dollars or so in gas within the first three years, so it's in your price range.  Plus, it depreciates slower than the 2.5, so it's more affordable there too.  All in all, the TDI looks more expensive on paper than the 2.5, but it's not really any more expensive to own, if you ask me.

As for refinement, the new clean diesel is worlds ahead of the old TDI.  Try it before you dismiss it.  The coworker who sold me the Jetta?  He drove a used MDX for two years, and he just bought a 2009 MkV Jetta TDI and is in love with it.  I haven't been in it myself yet, but I think he would have mentioned if he thought it lacked refinement at all.

I don't care how Honda does it, they should have an Accord wagon in their lineup. How hard would it be to take the current north american Accord and turn it into a wagon?

Also, I'm not quite sure I want to go back to a TDI... we're not prime candidates with long commutes, and for all the benefits a diesel offer, they certainly come with their fair share of inconvenients also. I would much prefer a low-cost (purchase, maintenance, long-term repairs) wagon. I'm really hopping Suzuki comes through with their Kizashi and offers it as a wagon too. That would be just about the perfect vehicle for us I think.

[airbalancer]

How about the Jetta wagon TDI?  Starts at $26,800, and I'll bet you'll save a thousand dollars or so in gas within the first three years, so it's in your price range.

I'd be torn between an Accord Touring and Golf TDI wagon.  Honda has an advantage in perceived reliability (I'm not up on VW's latest models) but they both have super-high resale, so that's a wash.

VW dealers suck donkey balls for service and ability to solve problems should they arise.  Labour rates and parts prices are more like exotic German, not "regular" cars.  But, the same is true for Honda dealers.  Servicing a Honda "by the book" is also an expensive proposition, and the arrogance of Honda dealers in both the sales and service departments is off the charts.

In a Honda shop, a mechanic can book in for 18 hours of work in 8 hour day
Have love people working off book rates