Autos.ca Home  


Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: A Canadian HS 250HPurchase Rant  (Read 3084 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Bobbytbird
Learner's Permit
*
Offline Offline

Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 4


View Profile
 Stats
« on: October 12, 2009, 11:28:56 pm »

I’m not a complainer. I’m not generally particularly vocal. In fact, I guess most people would say I’m a rather quiet and conservative sort respecting most things. All of that notwithstanding, I am really ‘ticked’ right now and I need to get it off my chest. It has to do with my recent experience buying a new car.

I provided a deposit on a Lexus HS 250H hybrid in June with anticipated delivery in September. In doing so I was expressing my intent to buy a car based on nothing more than information supplied in small part by the dealer and gleaned primarily via the Internet. The Canadian Lexus site was kind of stingy with information, until just recently providing a brief general description only, with additional information and pricing added in the last couple of weeks. But there was a lot of press respecting the introduction of the car in Japan. And the American site! WOW! Significant information has been available on the US site since the Detroit Auto show in January and that has been eclipsed lately by multimedia everything and a television campaign built around the idea that ‘SOMEDAY JUST MIGHT BE NOW’. They are using four main ads, all expounding the marvellous technology inherent in the HS 250H; radar, infrared, satellite and sonar.

I looked at the brief list of features on the super-duper Ultra-Premium HS 250H I had ordered in June and wondered why the Canadian description didn’t list all of the functionality I had read about on the web. But an HS 250H is an HS 250H isn’t it? The market is apparently limited to Japan and North America. This isn’t being marketed as a world car with changes nation to nation. Surely the relatively minuscule number of Canadian cars would be essentially the same as the much larger numbers of US cars delivered to these shores. I mean, I ordered the Ultra-Premium HS 250H and was told it had everything included. So I put it down to just a lack of information, a conservative marketing approach consistent with the very limited information on the Lexus Canada website. The difference was just with the ‘juiced-up’ American hype generated by a good marketing campaign. I mean, what else could it be?

And then, after almost four months of waiting I got the dealer invite to drive one of these marvellous high-tech cars. I was ecstatic.

My sales person at the Lexus dealership did a superb job and in fact has performed in exemplary fashion at all times. As the demo concluded, I asked questions. If the demo car was the Ultra-Premium HS 250H with all the options just like the car I ordered, why was the heads up display button plugged with plastic? The demo didn’t include info on the pre-collision system and the TV camera mounted up by the mirror. What about the parking assist? And how do I turn on the wide-view front monitor? What about the dynamic radar cruise control? Where was the lane keep assist and departure system? And why was there no mention of Lexus ‘Enform’?

I was told that this is the Ultra-Premium CANADIAN model of the HS 250H and it doesn’t have those features. Oh, I think to myself. I thought this was an HS 250H like the other people in the world were getting. But now I find out that the technology, relative to what was expected, apart from the very good hybrid system and a few neat but largely inconsequential innovations, consists of a bunch of commands via a very nice and intuitive interface that allows me to operate things like picking the radio station. HMMM! This isn’t the car I have been reading about in the Google reports delivered automatically to my e-mail account every single day for almost four months. This, in my personal opinion, I think to myself, is an emaciated hollow insipid shell of an HS 250H. But how could that be. Was it just my imagination that led me to believe that my car would come with all the ‘bells and whistles’? A July 15 Internet article on “Driving.ca” seems to infer that the Canadian car is the same as the US car because it is a Canadian publication and they include a full description of the technology features. Surely, I think to myself, an organization the size of Toyota Canada has a public relations department capable of ensuring the rather small and contained Canadian automotive press has the correct information.

But no, I decide that couldn’t possibly be the problem – or at least not the only problem. Why? Because Toyota Canada issued an official Toyota press release on the Canadian model of the HS 250H that stated in part: “An available wide-view front monitor helps the driver to check hard-to-see areas. Using a camera mounted in the front grille, the monitor provides a 190-degree front view on the Navigation screen with the push of a button on the steering wheel.” Well, the super-duper Ultra-Premium Lexus HS 250H I was shown didn’t have a front camera and I was told it wasn’t available.

And even in the city where the official Canadian HS 250H launch took place, the September 17th Winnipeg Sun apparently was also a bit confused given they had to print a retraction saying; “The 2010 Lexus Canadian HS 250h does not feature a wide-view front monitor and lane-keep assist. Incorrect information appeared in a story in yesterday's paper.” So what gives? Does Toyota Canada know what they are selling? Do they communicate with the public media? Is it any wonder that people like me who have been waiting with baited breath for several months for their car to arrive feel they have been oversold, led astray, and/or under informed?

So here it is at 3 AM and I can’t sleep and I’m writing this trying to get my head around my disappointment because I have to make a decision. Do I buy what I can only consider to be a ‘husk’ of a car relative to what is available outside of Canada, a car that perhaps I should still consider because, (1) it is probably well made based on JD Powers info on Lexus in general, (2) has a neat mouse-like interface, (3) still has at least a few really neat high tech features not removed, and (4) uses only 5.7 litres of fuel per 100 kilometres? Or do I buy what is arguably a better driving car like the BMW, or what some might consider a better looking car like the Infiniti?

But wait! My dissatisfaction has been communicated and has resulted in at least an attempted explanation by someone who should have the answer. I’m told that all of the technology that has been removed from the Canadian version of the super-duper Ultra-Premium HS 250H is on a common wiring harness and that at least one of the several systems removed relies on the availability of the Lexus ‘Enform’ type communications system, and that because Toyota Canada has not found it economically viable, or not had the time just yet to develop such a system, or buy the technology from the Americans, or perhaps piggyback on the US system, everything on the associated wiring harness had to be removed. OK. The explanation seems reasonable. Lexus Canada has not yet developed facilities comparable to the US Lexus ‘Enform’ operation or even the “OnStar” system used by GMC and others since 1976, so many of the HS 250H features need to be removed. Leaving them on the car in anticipation of Toyota Canada eventually within the life of the car implementing an ‘Enform’ type of system was apparently not an option. Just maybe the number of Lexus cars sold in Canada does not warrant the investment in the computer systems necessary to support the technology inherent with an unadulterated HS 250H. Relative to the USA we are a small country and even with the many advantages we enjoy as Canadians, perhaps our relatively small numbers can work to our disadvantage sometimes. So I have my explanation – or at least one I can sort of push myself to accept and now I should be able to just enjoy the car, albeit without some of the significant safety and convenience features I had really looked forward to. Well – yes and no. There is still a small problem, at least insofar as I am concerned. It has to do with ‘getting what is paid for’.

If I spec out the most expensive HS 250H possible in the USA the total comes to $46,575 US, or $50,313 Canadian. I paid $51,689 Canadian, excluding GST. I‘m OK with it costing somewhat more than the same car sold south of the border. We have higher taxes occasionally, perhaps higher wages in some instances and we operate with smaller orders, and cars like everything else, are cheaper by the gross than by the dozen. Aren’t they?

However, the US Lexus site lists the technology package and park assist at $4,400 US or $4,753 Canadian. Given the package is not available on the Canadian car, it seems reasonable, at least to me, to reduce the price accordingly. Instead, I paid what the Americans pay for their fully configured car, plus an additional $1,376. Or to put it another way, a comparable car costs $6,129 more in Canada than in the USA. Seems just a bit on the heavy side doesn’t it?

Well, time to conclude. I’m a bit of a computer geek. I like the mouse-like interface. I figure if I buy a non-hybrid, gas will probably jump to $3.50/litre this time next month. So I decided to do the Canadian thing. I bought the car. However, although I’m retired and past it in a lot of ways, I don’t feel the kick of satisfaction I really expected, knowing I had opted for a high technology car, because relative to what is available elsewhere, in many respects it isn’t really very high tech at all. So I’m not parting with my money willingly for the car I thought I was going to get.

Instead, I have accepted what seems to be the Canadian experience of not quite getting what is wanted, what is expected, and what is felt is deserved for hard earned dollars. Why do I keep bringing up the Canadian bit? What choice do I have? And the ‘Powers That Be’ know it. For me it is goodbye to the WOW factor and hello to ambivalence. And as a Canadian, I don’t like that one bit!
Logged
mmret
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: 06 TSX, 07 Z4 3.0si
Gender: Male
Location: Not Hamilton
Posts: 6410


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 11:35:35 pm »

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. Hope you can enjoy it as much as possible though.

I guess it just goes to demonstrate a few rules of thumb...

1. Never buy without full information
2. The Canadian version of the car is always crappier. Always.
Logged

Have: 06 TSX, 07 Z4 3.0si Roadster
Sometimes Borrow: 11 GLK
Had: 01 GrandAm, 07 Civic
Dream: SLS AMG
johngenx
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: 2009 Toyota Corolla 2001 Subaru Forester 2001 Suzuki Hayabusa
Gender: Male
Location: A space inside my own head where there are only mountains and climbing days...
Posts: 9879



View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2009, 11:47:59 pm »

2. The Canadian version of the car is always crappier. Always.

From every maker, pretty much.  They make up some about "Canadians have different preferences" to explain why they sell us the same car for less money with less content.

Subaru gave us unpainted bumpers, deleted heated seats (in Canada?), gave us steel wheels and other stuff that was standard on US base models.

Toyota does it all the time.  We don't get traction control, fewer tech goodies on high end models, and so on.

Honda?  Yup.  We get steel wheels on base models, missing equipment on top models, and so on.
Logged

No place I'd rather be...
2hondas1BMW
Car Crazy
*****
Online Online

Vehicle: '04 Acura TSX
Gender: Male
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3015


member


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 11:54:05 pm »

2. The Canadian version of the car is always crappier. Always.

From every maker, pretty much.  They make up some about "Canadians have different preferences" to explain why they sell us the same car for less money with less content.

Subaru gave us unpainted bumpers, deleted heated seats (in Canada?), gave us steel wheels and other stuff that was standard on US base models.

Toyota does it all the time.  We don't get traction control, fewer tech goodies on high end models, and so on.

Honda?  Yup.  We get steel wheels on base models, missing equipment on top models, and so on.


But wait!! We get DRLs standard on ALL models of cars!!  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes Those cost ALOT!
Logged

Mine: 2004 Acura TSX
Family: 2005 Honda Odyssey EX, 2006 BMW 330i
BJB
Drunk on Fuel
****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: 2011 Ford Escape
Gender: Male
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1875



View Profile
 Stats

Champion of
 
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2009, 11:55:43 pm »

But you had a choice and still chose to take the car, why would Lexus change any sort of policy if people like you are still lining up to buy their cars?

Price differences suck, they exist, but like every consumer, you have the ability to make a decision.  I understand your frustration, but I'm disappointed by your choice.
Logged
vdk
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: '08 GTI, '06 ZZR600
Gender: Male
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4708


I try and stay limber, swim, run, ride motorcycles


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 12:02:42 am »

Sorry to hear about your Lexus experience.


Just one quick question for you Sir, why didn't you go buy one in the States? With the current exchange rate, it would seem reasonable.
Logged

Bobbytbird
Learner's Permit
*
Offline Offline

Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 4


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2009, 12:22:44 am »

Yes I bought the car and did so because relative to what else was on the market in Canada it was a viable alternative for the money. If I had never heard of the US version and what it offered, I would be quite satisfied with what I bought in Canada. It's the difference in the way the distributors work that bugs me. In the US, it seems they sell things based in large part on what they're worth. In Canada, the distributors go for the maximum they can get independent of the actual value of the product. And why didn't I buy in the states? Because their Enform system which I would need wouldn't be accessible without US registration and address and I'm not interested in travelling 400 km for warranty work.
Logged
MKII
Drunk on Fuel
****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: 2007 Ford Focus Ghia SW 1.6l TI-VCT
Location: Tallinn Estonia
Posts: 2413


member


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2009, 04:37:24 am »

You should not have to settle for the Lexus, you should have checked out the Ford Fusion Hybrid, it has lots of high end tech, but lacks the badge snob appeal. Wink
Logged
tpl
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: VW GTI, Honda Fit
Gender: Male
Location: Guelph On.
Posts: 13963



View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 05:24:25 am »

I do feel for this.   For me I'd rather these manufacturers just produced a NA spec car, priced it in Yen or Euros at the factory gate and then sold it like that with all the currency conversions, duties, taxes added for the particular countries and states/provinces. So it will be more expensive in Canada usually so what, everything else is.

It seems in this particular case that Lexus has some kind of excuse with this Enform system implementation.  For the small volume I can see why Lexus Canada might want to not bother with a communication system/network in two languages and I doubt they'd be allowed to say that the system is not available in French ( but would be in Spanish!). or equally, not available throughout the north.  I don't understand why all the manufacturers don't just contract to Onstar for these services but I guess that is just too easy.
Logged

It is a narrow policy to suppose that this country or that is to be marked out as the eternal ally or the perpetual enemy of England. We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.
Lord Palmerston
Juke1
Drunk on Fuel
****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: 2011 Nissan Juke SL AWD
Gender: Male
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2053

member


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 05:48:41 am »

You should not have to settle for the Lexus, you should have checked out the Ford Fusion Hybrid, it has lots of high end tech, but lacks the badge snob appeal. Wink

...or the Camry

So it appears the HS250H is decontented.

If I was on the hybrid bandwagon as you appear to be, and insist that it's a Toyota, I would have gone for the Prius.  Then wait a couple of years to see what offerings there will be from other manufacturers, because I have the feeling there will be a lot of "green" choices.

Logged

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. - Dale Carnegie

Diversity is not about how we differ.  Diversity is about embracing one another's uniqueness.  -Ola Joseph
airbalancer
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Location: Cobourg Ontario
Posts: 14916



View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 05:57:21 am »

Even a Prius has different price and option compare to the US, Japan, and Europe
I believe, in Euroland there are different package in different countries
It sucks, but so does life sometimes
Logged
DockMan
Drunk on Fuel
****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: 2011 Subaru WRX
Gender: Male
Location: SW (Lonely Road) Ontario
Posts: 1799



View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 11:48:32 am »

Bummer!

US Fx is 1.031 CAN today. Slide across the border and pick yourself up a US version.....

www.riv.ca
Logged

Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all. - John W. Gardner
Bobbytbird
Learner's Permit
*
Offline Offline

Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 4


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 05:01:43 pm »

Tried the Ford Fusion Hybrid as suggested. It comes in loaded at about $42,000 and it was missing a lot of what the Lexus had - features I mean, not snob appeal. Also liked the rating that JD Powers has on Lexus much more than on Ford. Also resale value. So all in all, I didn't think the Fusion was a viable alternative - even with better fuel mileage.
Logged
vdk
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: '08 GTI, '06 ZZR600
Gender: Male
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4708


I try and stay limber, swim, run, ride motorcycles


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2009, 10:01:35 pm »

This might sound weird but I would've dropped those $50gs on a 335d..
Logged

Bobbytbird
Learner's Permit
*
Offline Offline

Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 4


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2009, 10:21:51 pm »

You are real close to reading my mind. I took a bimmer out and loved the way it drives. The main reason I didn't go that route was because of the hundreds of 3 series BMW's that seem to be on the market together with the JD Powers repair data. If the decision was just on what felt the best, the bimmer wins hands down.
Logged
rrocket
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Location: My house
Posts: 17335



View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2009, 10:34:10 pm »

You are real close to reading my mind. I took a bimmer out and loved the way it drives. The main reason I didn't go that route was because of the hundreds of 3 series BMW's that seem to be on the market together with the JD Powers repair data. If the decision was just on what felt the best, the bimmer wins hands down.

If I had $50K and HAD to have a hybrid, I would have drove to the US and bought a CPO/used GS450H.  My GS400 was modded, and the GS450H felt every bit as fast....

Heck...$50K gets you a CPO GS450H in Canada....
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 10:37:01 pm by rrocket » Logged

How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....
TopGun
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: 06 CooperS 03 Protege5 07 RX8
Gender: Male
Location: Oakville
Posts: 3492


I'd get a ZR-1...but the interior sucks.


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2009, 10:34:53 pm »

If the decision was just on what felt the best, the bimmer wins hands down.

Mouse interface beats driving feel... Surrender

What's next...flappy paddle auto beats a stick?  Oh crap, guess WE already decided that one...
Logged

If it flies, floats or f#%&s...rent it.
rrocket
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Location: My house
Posts: 17335



View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2009, 10:38:34 pm »

If the decision was just on what felt the best, the bimmer wins hands down.

Mouse interface beats driving feel... Surrender

What's next...flappy paddle auto beats a stick?  Oh crap, guess WE already decided that one...

C'mon...don't be a hater!  Weren't you the one who thought the sport seats in your sports car felt a bit too sporty??   Poke     Grin

Some people just like what they like.....
Logged

How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....
Trainman
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Vehicle: 2009 Subaru Forester 2004 Toyota Sienna
Gender: Male
Location: Darwin’s Waiting Room
Posts: 5553


Newb


View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2009, 10:50:42 pm »

2. The Canadian version of the car is always crappier. Always.

From every maker, pretty much.  They make up some about "Canadians have different preferences" to explain why they sell us the same car for less money with less content.

Subaru gave us unpainted bumpers, deleted heated seats (in Canada?), gave us steel wheels and other stuff that was standard on US base models.

Toyota does it all the time.  We don't get traction control, fewer tech goodies on high end models, and so on.

Honda?  Yup.  We get steel wheels on base models, missing equipment on top models, and so on.


Its funny you mention Subaru as lots of US buyers are envious of us Canadians and the content in the current Forester, notably heated seats (standard in Canada on all trim lines, extra cost option in US) and HID lights (standard on the X Limited and XT, not available at all in the US).  There are other examples but it does indeed go both ways, ie with navigation not available in the 09's in Canada.

But I agree overall.  And I would have thought that having the same in both markets would have reduced costs due to volume and set up factors, making a more competitive product.  I guess not   Undecided
Logged

2009 Subaru Forester X Touring Edition

rrocket
Car Crazy
*****
Offline Offline

Location: My house
Posts: 17335



View Profile
 Stats
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2009, 10:52:33 pm »

2. The Canadian version of the car is always crappier. Always.

From every maker, pretty much.  They make up some about "Canadians have different preferences" to explain why they sell us the same car for less money with less content.

Subaru gave us unpainted bumpers, deleted heated seats (in Canada?), gave us steel wheels and other stuff that was standard on US base models.

Toyota does it all the time.  We don't get traction control, fewer tech goodies on high end models, and so on.

Honda?  Yup.  We get steel wheels on base models, missing equipment on top models, and so on.


Its funny you mention Subaru as lots of US buyers are envious of us Canadians and the content in the current Forester, notably heated seats (standard in Canada on all trim lines, extra cost option in US) and HID lights (standard on the X Limited and XT, not available at all in the US).  There are other examples but it does indeed go both ways, ie with navigation not available in the 09's in Canada.

But I agree overall.  And I would have thought that having the same in both markets would have reduced costs due to volume and set up factors, making a more competitive product.  I guess not   Undecided

Screw the heated seats AND HIDs.  Give me a WRX for $25K like they do in the US..... Smiley
Logged

How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.4 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC
Brkdmrcn v4 By [BrKDmRcN]
| Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.079 seconds with 42 queries.