Topic: CTC Review: 2009 smart fortwo

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Yaris sales in September 2009 were 1907 compared to 5721 in Sept 2008.

What's your point?

Where are you getting your numbers from? The Sept #s posted in this link http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,49281.1220.html

Say that 1568 Yaris were sold in CANADA in spet. Arfe you trying to tell me that they sold only 200 more in the US?

The Smart sold 661 Smarts in the entire US (a market that is many times that of Canada) compared to 331 in Canada. I think it s pretty clear.

Its also interesting that the Smart is claimed to be a failure in Europe.

Sir Aquaman's table for September US auto sales.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,49080.180.html

[toolatecrew]

WOW that's crazy. SO far in 09 they sold 50,000 yaris(yari??) but only 1900 in Sept.  Ah I think I understand now. Not just Yaris but if you look Coroalla Matrix which are classified as domestic products sales are very stong. Look at Civic which is "domestic" vs Fit which is import.

Is this a cash for clunkers hangover?

Smart is import also so maybe that has something to do with its sales of only 800 in the US in sept. Mini sold over 4000 in sept.

North Americans really don't think much of the Smart do they?

[PJungnitsch]

North Americans really don't think much of the Smart do they?

¿Que? North American sales have been far higher than Mercedes ever thought, last year the US bought more Smarts than any country but Germany and Italy (it's designed and priced to be a niche vehicle even there). And of course in Canada sales have been strong for years now.

[toolatecrew]

There are 70 US smart dealers. They sold 814 cars in the US in sept. About 12 per dealer.  What is the profit on a Smart? Can't be more than a couple thousand can it?  $24 K a month doesn't seem like a lot of money to me to cover overhead let alone make a profit.

Average smart price in the US is waht 16K.

Mercedes sold 738 S class in Spet at 87 K a POP!

[johngenx]

Not sure about the US, but in Canada, Smarts are sold by MB dealers.  A Mercedes dealer can make $0.00 on each car it sells as the service dept. provides 125-130% fixed coverage.  The profit on the car is the "gravy."

[toolatecrew]

Not sure about the US, but in Canada, Smarts are sold by MB dealers.  A Mercedes dealer can make $0.00 on each car it sells as the service dept. provides 125-130% fixed coverage.  The profit on the car is the "gravy."

But they have separate showrooms, they have personell and marketing overhead etc.

Regardless 800 sales in the entire US on a sub 20 K car (regardless of how "niche" it may be ) is IMO very very low.  They are welcome to sell them. That's their perogative. People are welcome to buy them. It just seems like not many people "get it" in terms of what the car offers.

[wing]

Dealership in Ottawa just split the showroom, the sales people etc are all merc people.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Dealership in Ottawa just split the showroom, the sales people etc are all merc people.

That's how it was in Saint John and I believe here in Regina.

[ovr50]

"It just seems like not many people "get it" in terms of what the car offers."

What's to get? It is small, cramped, expensive and not particularily utilitarian (a stripper Civic gets as good fuel economy with more room inside and more cargo space). Only use for a "smart" is parking in ultra-tight places in large cities. Around here, they are mostly driven by people trying to make a statement about how "green" they are. And the City has a couple for the same reason.

[johngenx]

The original idea was not only small space usage, but outstanding fuel economy.  The gas version is not stunning on the economy front, and the diesel wasn't close to the hoped 3L/100km.

I recall the original concept was also supposed to be very low priced.  Not sure how the Smart is priced in Europe, but it's surprisingly expensive here.

[random006]

"It just seems like not many people "get it" in terms of what the car offers."

What's to get? It is small, cramped, expensive and not particularily utilitarian (a stripper Civic gets as good fuel economy with more room inside and more cargo space). Only use for a "smart" is parking in ultra-tight places in large cities. Around here, they are mostly driven by people trying to make a statement about how "green" they are. And the City has a couple for the same reason.

and

The original idea was not only small space usage, but outstanding fuel economy.  The gas version is not stunning on the economy front, and the diesel wasn't close to the hoped 3L/100km.

I recall the original concept was also supposed to be very low priced.  Not sure how the Smart is priced in Europe, but it's surprisingly expensive here.

Hence my renaming it the "Stupid" Car.

[Thinking Out Loud]

The original idea was not only small space usage, but outstanding fuel economy.  The gas version is not stunning on the economy front, and the diesel wasn't close to the hoped 3L/100km.

I recall the original concept was also supposed to be very low priced.  Not sure how the Smart is priced in Europe, but it's surprisingly expensive here.

 

For this half-of-a-car to succeed, it has to be priced at least ~60% of the cost of it's most 'direct traditional competition' would be. 

Being priced at the same point of a car with similar economy but twice the utility is DEATH, aka Accent, Elantra, Fit, etc etc etc makes the car irrelevant.

The Smart is a $9,999 vehicle that should be sold no-haggle a la Saturn. 

[wing]

Yet you can get an accent for $9,999 and 0% (sometimes )

[Rupert]

Out east this summer the big selling $9999 car was the Accent 3 door...in fact the most noticed car of any type in it's various versions. The Smart can not match the utility here or the price or the comfort and can only match the reliability...if it does. In fact in 6 weeks on the road in Quebec and Nova Scotia I can not remember seeing a single Smart. This is a little urban and city runabout and trying for more than that is stretching the envelope a bit. Personally, I would rather have one of the two seat tiny trucks that we have seen...a neat little vehicle to have around and very versatile for carrying modest loads. Only saw right hand drive though but with various beds. With one of these you can go to the library or grocery store or pick up a decent sized package at Sears. They must get as good gas ecconomy as a Smart. Maybe Smart should branch into this mode.

[tpl]

Out east this summer the big selling $9999 car was the Accent 3 door...in fact the most noticed car of any type in it's various versions. The Smart can not match the utility here or the price or the comfort and can only match the reliability...if it does. In fact in 6 weeks on the road in Quebec and Nova Scotia I can not remember seeing a single Smart. This is a little urban and city runabout and trying for more than that is stretching the envelope a bit. Personally, I would rather have one of the two seat tiny trucks that we have seen...a neat little vehicle to have around and very versatile for carrying modest loads. Only saw right hand drive though but with various beds. With one of these you can go to the library or grocery store or pick up a decent sized package at Sears. They must get as good gas ecconomy as a Smart. Maybe Smart should branch into this mode.

Those two seat tiny trucks are imported from Japan  15+ years old Kei type vehicles. If you really want one then

http://www.kei-cars.com/     is the local place.   I have seen several trucks and tiny minivans around here including a Subaru which might have even been AWD.

[Honda Owner]

Those two seat tiny trucks are imported from Japan  15+ years old Kei type vehicles

No thanks, I don't want to die!!!!

[Thinking Out Loud]

Yet you can get an accent for $9,999 and 0% (sometimes )

True.....but that is 'recently' discounted and a 5 speed no air no radio I think.  Used to be called the 'delivery boy special' once upon a time.   

Equip the Smart for mass production, two versions max (hard top $9,999 and convertible $11,999, radio and the CVT included) which better equip it against the Accent and at least you have better features for the price.  A/C for another $1,000.

This car should be a 'top or no top' and 'will that be in black, white, silver or red' order form.  I'd consider buying one for $10,000.

[toolatecrew]

Yet you can get an accent for $9,999 and 0% (sometimes )

True.....but that is 'recently' discounted and a 5 speed no air no radio I think.  Used to be called the 'delivery boy special' once upon a time.   

Equip the Smart for mass production, two versions max (hard top $9,999 and convertible $11,999, radio and the CVT included) which better equip it against the Accent and at least you have better features for the price.  A/C for another $1,000.

This car should be a 'top or no top' and 'will that be in black, white, silver or red' order form.  I'd consider buying one for $10,000.

The Smart is likley too expensive to compete in the 9999 catagory. Too expensive to build import etc. It also REQUIRES expensive things like staggered tire sizes and stability control becuase it would be unsafe at high speeds without them. SO they market it as a boutique vehicle. Sell it in a Merc showroom where they have customers with lots of $ who don't shop for value.

Like I've said the car is just a bad fit for the NA market. There are people who will buy it obviously. Not many but some. People argue that its simply housed in with Mec dealers so no big deal. BUT there is a cost to Marketing, overhead, stocking parts, training service certifying the cars etc etc. At present sales rates in the US they can't be generating more than say 15-20 M based on vehicle profits and that's before overhead is taken out.

[Rupert]

Yes, those are the tiny pick-up trucks that I saw only right hand drive though...not meant for here obviously. They probably will not pass some reg or other and as stated the chances of death by head on boink would seem to be pretty high. No more than falling off a motorcycle though or maybe even a Smart head on. Anyway my point was that if you are going to have a small footprint run-about for local use...then why not make it a vehicle that is usefull for more than carrying a couple of bodies. With one of these you can go to the library and call in at Sears on the way home and pick up a new 52inch TV or a piece of furniture or go to Ikea and get loads of stuff. Only the library books would fit in the Smart probably.
People do use Smarts on the main highways and some on long trips but I don't think that most folk would prefer to do so. Long trips would be tiring I think. So if these vehicles are urban errand runners and about town transport then why not expand the capabilities. The little trucks are not any bigger than a Smart cer...or not much so anyway. I had no idea that other vehicles use the same drive train...it seems that there is a world of vehicles out there that we have no access to.
I saw these trucks in a farming community in Saskatchewan. They seemed so small and I thought that there was no way that these would stand up to a tough farming environment. But in an urban environment it would be quite a different thing. Actually I think that there is a fun content in these little machines and that there is a serious aspect to them also.

[PJungnitsch]

I'm thinking where those little kei truck come in is an alternative to a Gator or Rhino for hunting, farm work, etc. Those cost upwards of 15 grand, so a road legal machine for 5 seems like a pretty good deal.