Topic: CTC Review: 2009 smart fortwo

[PJungnitsch]

CR also (to their credit) posts owner satisfaction ratings of the smart. Higher than any small car but one:

[tpl]

All that display proves is that 4 of the 5 people who bought a SMART would buy another one whereas   9100 of the 10,000 people who bought a mini would buy another. ( the 900 who wouldn't would walk to the other side of the dealership and buy a 3-series    )

[airbalancer]

owner satisfaction ratings

The question in the graph, would you buy the same car again?
What does that have to do with quality ?
You may love the car, but does not fit your needs, so you will not buy it again
Or done that , want something else now
Someone could love their 5 series but really want a M3, does that mean they were unsatisfied with their 5 series

[PJungnitsch]

This is the question actually:

The scores reflect the percentage of subscribers who answered "definitely yes" to the question, "Considering all factors (price, performance, reliability, comfort, enjoyment, etc.) would you get this car if you had it to do all over again?"

Quantify's the point that JustBob and SirOsis keep bringing up, that there is more to vehicle enjoyment for humans than just raw numbers.

It's an interesting counterpoint to CR's normally dry and objective review and reliability ratings. Correlates well with the owner enthusiasm I've seen for things like diesel 3/4 tons, Jeeps, and yes smart cars, despite low ratings for each in some of CR's other rating categories.

[Snowdog]

CR also (to their credit) posts owner satisfaction ratings of the smart. Higher than any small car but one:

This is kind of the natural reaction to owning something cultish, when most everything else says it is drek.

In reality I bet these people are the most wrong in that survey. When their current ForTwos croak, I bet significantly less than 90% will buy another.

There will be a new image car for them then.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Even down 43% the Yaris sells 10 TIMES as many as a Smart. Both are inexpesnive small fuel efficient cars.

Mini sells 66% more cars than Smart. I'd say that's quite a difference wouldn't you?

Mini and Smart are both specity cars. Voumes will be smaller yes so when comparing speciaty cars 1000 more units is A LOT.

No, it isn't. smart comes in hatchback and convertible only with a single drivetrain. How many variants of the Mini exist now?

The Yaris is good at what it does, being a mainstream, sub-compact FWD car. We've got plenty of appliances on the market now. Why would Daimler play the me-too game? The smart was never intended to be a maintream sub-compact. It's different by design.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

CR also (to their credit) posts owner satisfaction ratings of the smart. Higher than any small car but one:

This is kind of the natural reaction to owning something cultish, when most everything else says it is drek.

In reality I bet these people are the most wrong in that survey. When their current ForTwos croak, I bet significantly less than 90% will buy another.

There will be a new image car for them then.

So the people who genuinely seem to like it are wrong? That's quite the God complex you've got goin on. You guys really don't seem to get the fact that people weight factors differently that you do when it comes to cars. Get over yourselves.

[Cord]

"You ask me if I have a God complex?"

"Let me tell you something, I am God"

[toolatecrew]

Even down 43% the Yaris sells 10 TIMES as many as a Smart. Both are inexpesnive small fuel efficient cars.

Mini sells 66% more cars than Smart. I'd say that's quite a difference wouldn't you?

Mini and Smart are both specity cars. Voumes will be smaller yes so when comparing speciaty cars 1000 more units is A LOT.

No, it isn't. smart comes in hatchback and convertible only with a single drivetrain. How many variants of the Mini exist now?

The Yaris is good at what it does, being a mainstream, sub-compact FWD car. We've got plenty of appliances on the market now. Why would Daimler play the me-too game? The smart was never intended to be a maintream sub-compact. It's different by design.

You continue to entirley miss my point. The Smart is a dumb idea for the North American market. Its wasn't intended to be a mainstream Subcompact. It was intended to eb a Micro car. Micro cars don;t fit the NA market (as evidenced by their almost non existance). If a Micro car like the Smart was a good idea for NA then others would be selling them (and selling lots of them). So what they did with the Smart was take a car that has no market in NA as a micro car and TRY to North Americanize it enough to compete with subcompacts. Why else would they relace the deisle with a gas engine? Hmmm?

[airbalancer]

Why else would they relace the deisle with a gas engine?

maybe the diesel engine could not pass the emission testing

[PJungnitsch]

maybe the diesel engine could not pass the emission testing

Exactly. The diesel was easier to federalize initially, but the new tight regs for diesel have made it too expensive to bring here now.

The surprising success of the smart in NA has led directly to Toyota's plans to bring the iQ here in 2011 and quite likely Fiat bringing the 500.

[Turbo Bob]

CR also (to their credit) posts owner satisfaction ratings of the smart. Higher than any small car but one:

This is kind of the natural reaction to owning something cultish, when most everything else says it is drek.

In reality I bet these people are the most wrong in that survey.

My god you are hilarious, you keep quoting CR at everyone and as soon as someone shows you a CR stat you don't agree with you say it's a rubbish stat. 

So which god are you..? 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

You continue to entirley miss my point. The Smart is a dumb idea for the North American market. Its wasn't intended to be a mainstream Subcompact. It was intended to eb a Micro car. Micro cars don;t fit the NA market (as evidenced by their almost non existance). If a Micro car like the Smart was a good idea for NA then others would be selling them (and selling lots of them). So what they did with the Smart was take a car that has no market in NA as a micro car and TRY to North Americanize it enough to compete with subcompacts. Why else would they relace the deisle with a gas engine? Hmmm?

No I don't. It get it completely. In your opinion the smart is a dumb idea. It isn't for everyone who has bought one. It isn't for me,  Bob or PJ. Yours is just one man's opinion, and we don't have to accept it as law, especially when you have no first hand experience with the car.

Daimler only brought the car to Canada as an experiment. It sold much better than expected so it was retained and expanded to the US. Now Toyota is bringing over their iQ.

As stated above, it's hugely expensive to federalize the diesel. There's a reason very few diesels are sold in NA. VW has stuck with it, Mercedes dabbles with it and now BMW is introducing a few. From what I've heard, the diesel option in the VDub is fairly heavily subsidized, if the option reflected the true cost, it would be in the $4-5k range. The big diesels in trucks are around a 10k option.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

"You ask me if I have a God complex?"

"Let me tell you something, I am God"

Thank you Mr Baldwin!

[Snowdog]

So the people who genuinely seem to like it are wrong? That's quite the God complex you've got goin on. You guys really don't seem to get the fact that people weight factors differently that you do when it comes to cars. Get over yourselves.

When people buy the worse in class product simply because it is a Novelty/Image item, they will in a few years when the Novelty, Image factors fall by the wayside, abandon it. It is simple human nature nothing more.

When people stop noticing their car, stop pointing, and start ignoring like other cars, all that is left, is it being the worse in class product.

They will then be buying Persu Tilting cars or whatever else gets them back to being the center of attention again:
http://www.zoomilife.com/2009/01/08/venture-vehicles-persu-mobility-the-persu-hybrid/

[Cord]

"You ask me if I have a God complex?"

"Let me tell you something, I am God"

Thank you Mr Baldwin!

You're welcome. 

[toolatecrew]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/smart-cars-play-the-incentive-game/

US sales of the not very Smart car have fallen off a cliff. The Financial Times reports that “Smart sold only 661 of its fortwo model in the US last month, more than two-thirds below October 2008 and the lowest for any month since the car made its debut in the US early last year.” Other analysts are blaming low fuel costs and the foolishness of US consumers who just don’t get the appeal of microcars. Not me, I blame the fact that the Smart car is an all around underwhelming vehicle which gives up too much capability in return for mediocre fuel economy. Note that the Smart brand is a failure in Europe as well. “Daimler’s decision to export Smart to the US was a critical part of its rescue plan for the brand. For all its pizzazz, the little car has been a financial millstone. Daimler came close to shutting down the brand in 2006, but opted instead for a €1bn ($1.5bn) restructuring aimed at making the business profitable by the end of 2007.” How anyone (let alone Roger Penske) thought a failed European microcar would be saved by exports to the US is beyond me. Smart’s new “Value Days” 1.9% financing promotion isn’t going to get the job done. Not even a Toyota-esque Saved By Zero campaign would do the trick.[/quote

[Sir Osis of Liver]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/smart-cars-play-the-incentive-game/

US sales of the not very Smart car have fallen off a cliff. The Financial Times reports that “Smart sold only 661 of its fortwo model in the US last month, more than two-thirds below October 2008 and the lowest for any month since the car made its debut in the US early last year.” Other analysts are blaming low fuel costs and the foolishness of US consumers who just don’t get the appeal of microcars. Not me, I blame the fact that the Smart car is an all around underwhelming vehicle which gives up too much capability in return for mediocre fuel economy. Note that the Smart brand is a failure in Europe as well. “Daimler’s decision to export Smart to the US was a critical part of its rescue plan for the brand. For all its pizzazz, the little car has been a financial millstone. Daimler came close to shutting down the brand in 2006, but opted instead for a €1bn ($1.5bn) restructuring aimed at making the business profitable by the end of 2007.” How anyone (let alone Roger Penske) thought a failed European microcar would be saved by exports to the US is beyond me. Smart’s new “Value Days” 1.9% financing promotion isn’t going to get the job done. Not even a Toyota-esque Saved By Zero campaign would do the trick.

Yaris sales in September 2009 were 1907 compared to 5721 in Sept 2008.

What's your point?

[toolatecrew]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/smart-cars-play-the-incentive-game/

US sales of the not very Smart car have fallen off a cliff. The Financial Times reports that “Smart sold only 661 of its fortwo model in the US last month, more than two-thirds below October 2008 and the lowest for any month since the car made its debut in the US early last year.” Other analysts are blaming low fuel costs and the foolishness of US consumers who just don’t get the appeal of microcars. Not me, I blame the fact that the Smart car is an all around underwhelming vehicle which gives up too much capability in return for mediocre fuel economy. Note that the Smart brand is a failure in Europe as well. “Daimler’s decision to export Smart to the US was a critical part of its rescue plan for the brand. For all its pizzazz, the little car has been a financial millstone. Daimler came close to shutting down the brand in 2006, but opted instead for a €1bn ($1.5bn) restructuring aimed at making the business profitable by the end of 2007.” How anyone (let alone Roger Penske) thought a failed European microcar would be saved by exports to the US is beyond me. Smart’s new “Value Days” 1.9% financing promotion isn’t going to get the job done. Not even a Toyota-esque Saved By Zero campaign would do the trick.

Yaris sales in September 2009 were 1907 compared to 5721 in Sept 2008.

What's your point?

Where are you getting your numbers from? The Sept #s posted in this link http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,49281.1220.html

Say that 1568 Yaris were sold in CANADA in spet. Arfe you trying to tell me that they sold only 200 more in the US?

The Smart sold 661 Smarts in the entire US (a market that is many times that of Canada) compared to 331 in Canada. I think it s pretty clear.

Its also interesting that the Smart is claimed to be a failure in Europe.

[Turbo Bob]

I think it s pretty clear I can't stop bleating on about a car I neither want nor care about, I don't know why.

EFA