Topic: Evil Twin's "Likely" Next Ride - UPDATE: WRX ORDERED

[tortoise]

If you're looking for a fun car and can sacrifice a little space maybe the Mini Clubman (S, of course) would fit the bill.   


Otherwise, of the 3 you mentioned I'd be inclined to go with the GTI.  IMO is has the perfect combination of sport, luxury and fuel economy.  The WRX would be a close second simply due to the AWD.

[toolatecrew]

Had a chance to ut my 08 Gti next to a 2010. After that comparison I'm gonna say just go get a GTI!

The 010 interio is very nice. The front end look of the car has been cleaned up. All the luxury goodies like Bluetooth are now avaialble. They have supposedly improved the road noise.

I love Subaru's. I like my Imprza. The performance and AWD of a WRX make it a hoot to drive in most any conditions. But I have to say if you can only have one car that serves as a Family car, upscale car and sporty car the GTI is hard to beat. It won't win any speed contests with a WRX but its still fun and when you have to drive slowly I think its refinement and interior triumph over the Subaru.

You really can't go wrong with any of the choices. But after seeing the 2010 if you are leaning that way I think a test drive will push you over the edge.

[evil_twin]

Yes, I'm certainly leaning heavily to the GTI.  If I felt the acceleration wasn't to my liking, I could always opt for an APR stage 1 ECU tune.  Reading a lot of firsthand reviews (albeit from fanboys) on vwvortex as US customers are starting to receive the launch cars...nothing not to like really.

I actually swung by the local Subie dealer in town last night to drop off a colleague whose Outback was in for service.  They had a 2010 WRX out front in silver.  Looks pretty nice, but I still can't seem to build any real 'lust' for it (until i drive it I'm sure).  Hell of a lot of praciticality and performance for the price though.

Again, test drives later in October will hopefully make my decision clear.

Thus far, I'd peg the odds at: GTI - 60 %, WRX - 30%, MS3 -10%

[Flinter]

I love Subaru's. I like my Imprza. The performance and AWD of a WRX make it a hoot to drive in most any conditions. But I have to say if you can only have one car that serves as a Family car, upscale car and sporty car the GTI is hard to beat. It won't win any speed contests with a WRX but its still fun and when you have to drive slowly I think its refinement and interior triumph over the Subaru.

I think that is a fair assessment.... the GTI certainly has a better interior and probably feels more refined than the WRX. However, as you said the AWD of a WRX makes it a fun car 12 months of the year. I guess it comes down to relative priorities.

I actually swung by the local Subie dealer in town last night to drop off a colleague whose Outback was in for service.  They had a 2010 WRX out front in silver.  Looks pretty nice, but I still can't seem to build any real 'lust' for it (until i drive it I'm sure).  Hell of a lot of praciticality and performance for the price though.

Again, test drives later in October will hopefully make my decision clear.

Thus far, I'd peg the odds at: GTI - 60 %, WRX - 30%, MS3 -10%

I had a similar feeling about the WRX when I was shopping back in 2008. The WRX looks nice, but as you said, not something you 'lust' for when you see it. However, my lusting began rather quickly after I drove it. That boxer engine and AWD powertrain is really what makes this car special. The engine has a really pleasent gurgle when you are putting around at low speeds, when you put your foot into it just comes alive and turns into a raging beast. The sound, surge of power combined with the traction of the AWD is really something to experience. It really has a unique character.

I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions when you test drive later in Oct. I really think you can't loose with either of these cars.

[toolatecrew]

If you don't test drive till latter in October or November I can see things swinging towards the WRX though. Its only Sept but on early cold mornings I'm already noticing the TCS light coming on in first gear quite a bit with the GTI with the 18s on it. Its easy to break traction in the lower gears especially when pavement it cold/wet. The Subaru was the only car I've ever had that I would take out to drive for FUN when it snowed. Being able to leave most cars in the dust becuase of the AWD is strangley satisying.

[tpl]

If you don't test drive till latter in October or November I can see things swinging towards the WRX though. Its only Sept but on early cold mornings I'm already noticing the TCS light coming on in first gear quite a bit with the GTI with the 18s on it. Its easy to break traction in the lower gears especially when pavement it cold/wet. The Subaru was the only car I've ever had that I would take out to drive for FUN when it snowed. Being able to leave most cars in the dust becuase of the AWD is strangley satisying.

I don't know what 18s you have but the Dunlops on mine can easily be overwhelmed as you say... hopeless, but maybe the suspension needs a tweak to keep them on the ground more firmly.

[toolatecrew]

If you don't test drive till latter in October or November I can see things swinging towards the WRX though. Its only Sept but on early cold mornings I'm already noticing the TCS light coming on in first gear quite a bit with the GTI with the 18s on it. Its easy to break traction in the lower gears especially when pavement it cold/wet. The Subaru was the only car I've ever had that I would take out to drive for FUN when it snowed. Being able to leave most cars in the dust becuase of the AWD is strangley satisying.

I don't know what 18s you have but the Dunlops on mine can easily be overwhelmed as you say... hopeless, but maybe the suspension needs a tweak to keep them on the ground more firmly.

Pirelli PZero Nero M+S

The fronts only have about 10K on them and the rears 19.  I don't think its a suspension issue. The 2.0T has a lot of low end tporque that hits at 1800 just after launch when the boost hits. I find it particularly tricky with the DSG at times.

[Giant Dwarf]

The WRX can definitely NOT be appreciated without driving it.  Even then, I'm convinced it's a car that grows (like a fungus) on you the more you drive it and the better you get to know it.  My first few forays in the '09 WRX left me somewhat underwhelmed and wishing for the greater rawness of the previous generation.  But... the more time I spend in my brother's car (and see how well built it is and how fun it is in ANY condition) really sets it far from the competition.  There are many days when I really think I should've gotten a 265 too (and there'll be even more come snowy weather!). 

The GTI will impress right off the mark with its higher levels of refinement (quietness) and fancier interior bits.  But, for someone who deliberately put LOUD pipes on his Stang, I really don't think that needs to be your number 1 priority -- especially over time. 

Besides, think of how fun it'll be going to the cottage in the winter and when Dave leaves his poor BMW at the top of the hill and hikes down, you're going up and down like a mountain goat covering him in big snowy rooster tails. 

[roundupready]

I love my Subaru but really, in the end, it's what you really like that matters.

Get something that you like and want, and don't be concerned with what others think.

They're all good cars.  So just pick any one that you think you'll like to live with for the long term.


( I haven't driven the GTI/WRX265/MS3 but have driven the regular Golf/Impreza/08 Mazda3 and I thought the Impreza actually felt more refined and solid the Mazda3.  The Mazda had squeaks and rattles and was noisey and rough riding.  Maybe that sample was too beat up to judge fairly. )

Good luck.

[evil_twin]

Test Drive Update:

Visit the local Mazda and Subie dealers today (no GTI in yet at the VW dealers):

MS3: Drove a black MS3 (there are no options other than colour).  First impression: Far too 'ricer' for me.  The car looks 'decent' in black but still too over the top.  The interior is of nice quality, but again, the weird red dotted pattern all over the place just looks odd to me.  TONS of standard features however in terms of nav, bluetooth, voice-activated everything, keyless start, blah, blah, blah.  Lots of room in the hatch with the rear seats folded down. 

The drive:  Very fast once the turbos start to spool up at about 3000rpm.  Nice sound and torque steer is only crazy if you totally mash the pedal.  However, it was damp today, and I now understand what you're all talking about regarding the TCS indicator on a FWD car.  Starting in 1st from a red light, that thing lights up all the time.  Very discouraging if you're buying a car partially for the silly amounts of acceleration.

Overall:  Very nice car, especially with the crazy amount of features the pack in for no extra cost.  But too over the top for me.  As I suspected, if I go FWD, it will be in the GTI...


WRX:  Drove a silver 2010 WRX (non-limited).  First Impression:  I've seen many in person, but never examined as closely as today.  Exterior looks 'okay' to me.  Not beautiful, but honestly, I like it better than the MS3, because it's at least somewhat 'grownup'.  Interior is actually not as bad as i thought it might be.  Lots of hard plastic, but they at least look nice...better than the mustang for sure.  Seats are quite nice.  I don't think I'd spend the extra $3k for the leather.  The cloth seats seem to suit the WRX anyways. 

The drive:  Wow.  Very impressive.  This car is fast.  The turbos might take a bit of time to spool up, but it wasn't as noticable as the MS3.  Seemed much more linear.  Being that it was damp, there was no comparison in terms of grip and handling.  The WRX gives you unbelievable confidence.  This thing would clearly be a great drive in any conditions.  One down side:  I wasn't overly impressed with the shifter.  Only 5 speeds, and the throws are a little long to me.  I think I'd consider the short-throw kit they offer.

Overall:  Really impressed.  Interior wasn't as bad as I thought it might be.  Performance was fantastic.  Some things I thought I wouldn't like and, sure enough, didn't like:  5 speed shifter, no xenons, 17" wheels only (minor issue really).


So, I'd say I've eliminated the MS3.  Now it's down to the WRX vs the GTI.  But the WRX definitely won some points today.  I will definitely be test driving it again and more thoroughly.  It's gonna be a closer race than I thought

Good times.

[safristi]

..so it's down to the two lil  ... ...... on yer BIG SHOULDERS.............do not quiver..the future of evil_DOM rests in yer palms........................and that lil Giant dwarf thingie egging U on about cottage accesaBILITY................PUT a wheelchair sticky on the GTi and call the local paraTRANSIT............................... ..................

[Flinter]

Test Drive Update:

WRX:  Drove a silver 2010 WRX (non-limited).  First Impression:  I've seen many in person, but never examined as closely as today.  Exterior looks 'okay' to me.  Not beautiful, but honestly, I like it better than the MS3, because it's at least somewhat 'grownup'.  Interior is actually not as bad as i thought it might be.  Lots of hard plastic, but they at least look nice...better than the mustang for sure.  Seats are quite nice.  I don't think I'd spend the extra $3k for the leather.  The cloth seats seem to suit the WRX anyways. 

The drive:  Wow.  Very impressive.  This car is fast.  The turbos might take a bit of time to spool up, but it wasn't as noticable as the MS3.  Seemed much more linear.  Being that it was damp, there was no comparison in terms of grip and handling.  The WRX gives you unbelievable confidence.  This thing would clearly be a great drive in any conditions.  One down side:  I wasn't overly impressed with the shifter.  Only 5 speeds, and the throws are a little long to me.  I think I'd consider the short-throw kit they offer.

Overall:  Really impressed.  Interior wasn't as bad as I thought it might be.  Performance was fantastic.  Some things I thought I wouldn't like and, sure enough, didn't like:  5 speed shifter, no xenons, 17" wheels only (minor issue really).


So, I'd say I've eliminated the MS3.  Now it's down to the WRX vs the GTI.  But the WRX definitely won some points today.  I will definitely be test driving it again and more thoroughly.  It's gonna be a closer race than I thought

Good times.

I've had my WRX for about 18 months now and I think your impressions are bang on. I wouldn't bother with the limited package either. The only thing I would add is that I found the shifter feel improved noticeably over the 1st 10K. Perhaps it was just a case of me getting used to it. The throws are still longer than ideal but I hear the short throw kit does a good job there.

[Railton]

Unless you've got access to a E-spec R32 WADR, I don't see the competition here with the GTI. Buy the 265 and get on with things. 
Railton

[toolatecrew]

Curious what does the WRX rev at 100 KPH? How is the road noise (for all its refinment my GTI with 18s on it has some serious tire noise).

After my experience with my 02 Impreza no xenons would be a deal breaker. The low beams were one of the worst I've seen in a long time and high beams were not much better. I ended up with some hella driving lamps hooked to the high beams in where the fogs go just to make it bearable. My wife hates to drive at night but just tonight she told me "The GTI is the only car we've ever owned that I don;t mind driving at nights becuase of the bright headlights"

5 speed isn;t a big deal as long as its a good shifter and geared right.
Having only 17s isn;t a big deal either. If you do drive the GTI I encourage you to dive one with 17s and 18s. If I were to buy one new I think I might well go with the 17s. For the little bit of grip you moght give up you would gain a bit softer ride and save $ on tires (as well as have less likleyhood of tire damage). Heck 17s will likley be lighter. I think the 18s on the GTI weigh 29 LBS! The Enli evo 5s (17s0 I had on the Maxima weighed 19lbs. The WRX 17s weigh 21.

[Flinter]

Curious what does the WRX rev at 100 KPH? How is the road noise (for all its refinment my GTI with 18s on it has some serious tire noise).

The current gen WRX will rev at ~2500rpm at 100kph in 5th gear. I think this is the same as the 09 GTI in 6th gear. I'm not sure about the 2010 GTI. See attachment below from Car and Driver comparo for noise levels. Looks to be very close to the 09 GTI.

5 speed isn;t a big deal as long as its a good shifter and geared right.

The shifter is not up to same the level I've experienced in some Honda's but it is far from horrible. I've never really missed not having a 6 speed on the WRX. I think Subie did a good job on the ratios IMHO.

[Turbo Bob]

I agree on Subaru headlights, my old non-HID ones were awful.  Can the WRX 265 be purchased with them or upgraded/aftermarket?

[Flinter]

I agree on Subaru headlights, my old non-HID ones were awful.  Can the WRX 265 be purchased with them or upgraded/aftermarket?

There is a couple of upgrade options mentioned in this thread:
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/exterior-appearance/134305282-08-headlight-bulb-upgrade.html

The thread above mentions a HID Xenon Conversion from:
http://www.sharphid.com/

[toolatecrew]

Curious what does the WRX rev at 100 KPH? How is the road noise (for all its refinment my GTI with 18s on it has some serious tire noise).

The current gen WRX will rev at ~2500rpm at 100kph in 5th gear. I think this is the same as the 09 GTI in 6th gear. I'm not sure about the 2010 GTI. See attachment below from Car and Driver comparo for noise levels. Looks to be very close to the 09 GTI.

5 speed isn;t a big deal as long as its a good shifter and geared right.

The shifter is not up to same the level I've experienced in some Honda's but it is far from horrible. I've never really missed not having a 6 speed on the WRX. I think Subie did a good job on the ratios IMHO.

Thanks for posting that. Holy %$# a WRX is fast. Its basically in a whole other categorey from a GTI. It also highlights the real world performance of those cars. When you look a t a Civic Si's numbers you realize how poorly that type of Motor translates to everyday driving.

Yes the GTI revs at 2500 at 100kph.  I do not find the engine noise intrusive at highway speed (at least until you acceperate and that stupid noise tube bleeds engine noise into the cabin).

Noise to me is subjective becuse the source, quality and tone of the noise is as imporatnt as a db or so in volume. I found engine noise pronounced in my Impreza. It was more of a trum which wasn't as annoying as a droning sound. 

[quadzilla]

Thanks for posting that. Holy %$# a WRX is fast. Its basically in a whole other categorey from a GTI. It also highlights the real world performance of those cars. When you look a t a Civic Si's numbers you realize how poorly that type of Motor translates to everyday driving.

Looking at the 30-50 and 50-70 test the GTi blows everything out of the water. I'm wondering since they had the DSG they ALLOWED it to downshift during these test which to me gives it an unfair advantage. If its a top gear acceleration test then they should lock it in manual mode and not allow it to downshift OR downshift all the other cars keeping things even.

I wanted the WRX (hatch) when shopping for our GTi but the Mrs doesn't drive a manual so the answer was easy for me. But looking at those numbers maybe it was also a good thing.

[Giant Dwarf]

Quadzilla, I agree, if you through the 'must-have-auto' into the mix, the VW becomes a no-brainer... although I'd probably give at least a once-over to a Lancer Ralliart hatch with their dual-clutch set up too.

Regarding the HID's (or lack thereof), a good set up of projector-beam halogens can do a very, very good job.  The halogens on my MX-5 seemed every bit as crisp and effective as the HIDs on my BMW -- just not as white.  Maybe I just don't do enough rural, night-time driving to really care that much?