The New El-Cheapo Astra

[aquadorhj]

i scheduled a test drive for today, Astra 5d with sunroof.   if the power is as crappy as you say it is, i probably won't like it, but the one i saw on the lot looked real good.

....but then Hyundai Forte Koup was looking pretty good as well.  .... damn i hate car shopping.  so many good cars.

[Wolverine]

This is a nice car, we have it here in Brazil as the Chevrolet Vectra GT. As any other car in Brazil it's heavily overpriced.

[safristi]

.... Call Jack Layton.................he's making a DEAL with any Politician....can U say LuLu in portuguese............

[DockMan]

....but then Hyundai Forte Koup was looking pretty good as well.  .... damn i hate car shopping.  so many good cars.

When you look at a price of $10,990 the field is narrowed substantially! For me this purchase was value for dollar oriented...it fit our needs and was the right price.

[Leviathan]

So would you guys recommend and immediate Crown service and switch to synthetic oil to start things off the right way?

Crown right away, yes. Synthetic definitely but could wait until the first or second oil change.

[toolatecrew]

So would you guys recommend and immediate Crown service and switch to synthetic oil to start things off the right way?

Crown right away, yes. Synthetic definitely but could wait until the first or second oil change.

I'll disagree.

My Maxima is 10 years old now. Never rustproofed and no rust even in salty Nova scotia.
Nothing but dino oil and not one problem with the engine.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

[Leviathan]

So would you guys recommend and immediate Crown service and switch to synthetic oil to start things off the right way?

Crown right away, yes. Synthetic definitely but could wait until the first or second oil change.

I'll disagree.

My Maxima is 10 years old now. Never rustproofed and no rust even in salty Nova scotia.
Nothing but dino oil and not one problem with the engine.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Boat is floating fine thanks. This Astra has a wee bit smaller engine than your Maxima and it is going to be asked to work a little harder during its 5 year > 300,000Kms quoted ownership period. 'course rustproofing for a 5 year ownership period may not be worth it. Not our decision though.

[wing]

Yeah I wouldn't rust proof a car you are keeping for 5 years, in 5 years it will still look new anyhow.

[Flinter]

Congrats on the new Astra. Certainly looks like an amazing car for the money.

I'm also a big believer in rust proofing. I did it every year on my old Integra and the body is still completely rust free after 10 years. I think you will get the full value back on a car you intend to keep for only 5 years when the time comes to trade or sell.

As for the switch from dino oil to synthetic. There seems to be some disagreement out there. I would personally make the switch after the 1st or 2nd oil change when the engine is broken in and any fine metal particulate from break-in has been flushed out. Here are some other takes on this question.

Mobil
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx
"Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1.
Reality:
You can start using Mobil 1 in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:

- Acura RDX
- Aston Martin
- All Bentley Vehicles
- All Cadillac Vehicles
- Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
- Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
- Chrysler 300C SRT-8
- Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
- Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
- Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
- Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
- Mercedes SLR
- Mitsubishi Evolution
- Pontiac Solstice GXP
- All Porsche Vehicles
- Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
- Viper SRT-10

One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor."

Red Line Oil
http://www.redlineoil.com/techinfo_faq.aspx
"Q: Can I break-in my engine on Red Line motor oil?
For peformance engines, we recommend using conventional 10w30 motor oil to ensure proper piston ring seating. We recommend using this oil in combination with our Engine Oil Break In Additive, which features the antiwear chemicals necessary to protect valve train components like camshafts, rollers, and tappets. Though most conventional oils are missing the important antiwear components that you find in Red Line's synthetic motor oils, the conventional oil is not as slick as Red Line and will allow the piston rings to seat more quickly. If you allow 1500 to 2000 miles in a street engine or 20 to 30 minutes on the dyno at low rpm, the rings will have had sufficient time to seat and the high initial break-in wear will have occurred. For new road cars, always follow the manufacturer recommendations and initial oil change recommendations for break-in. "

AMSOIL
http://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspx
" Switching From Petroleum to Synthetic
I heard that new cars require a break in period with petroleum before you switch them to synthetic.
Answer: AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil can be used during break-in trouble free. In fact, vehicles such as Dodge Viper and Chevrolet Corvette come factory filled with synthetic oil.
Since most new vehicles come filled with petroleum oil, it only makes good sense to change to AMSOIL at the first scheduled oil change interval. New engine components generate high levels of wear metals and can contain contaminants from assembly. By allowing the engine to operate with the petroleum oil until the first oil/filter change interval, the wear metals and contaminants are removed prior to installing AMSOIL."

Castrol
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7007980
"MYTH: You need to allow a break-in period for new vehicles before using synthetic motor oil.
FACT: In the past, it was recommended that conventional motor oil be used for your first oil change to allow for some controlled wear to break-in the new engine. However, with current engine technology, a break-in period is not necessary. You can use synthetics immediately.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Yeah I wouldn't rust proof a car you are keeping for 5 years, in 5 years it will still look new anyhow.

I wouldn't rust proof it either. Sucker should be double galvanized anyhow - not like you bought Mazda3 steel    However if you're putting on that many kms, I would go the 3M clear bra route as I would think the stone chips will be the bigger issue after that much mileage.

Also do think synthetic oil would be a wise investment.

[tpl]

All VAG, BMW and M-B vehicles come with synthetic fill from the factory now I believe.

[toolatecrew]

Congrats on the new Astra. Certainly looks like an amazing car for the money.

I'm also a big believer in rust proofing. I did it every year on my old Integra and the body is still completely rust free after 10 years. I think you will get the full value back on a car you intend to keep for only 5 years when the time comes to trade or sell.

Kindly indulge me in the math on this one.

Lets say the cost of rustproffing is $600 over the course of 5 years (including tax)

The Astra retailed for 10,999

Lets be conservative and go with these assumptions http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/new-car-every-10-years-or-used-car-every-5.htm

The according to that the Astra would be worth 41% of the pusrchase price in year 5. (I say conservative becuase that is the depreciation on a noraml model the Astra is an "orphan" and the compnay that made it Saturn may have 0 dealers around in 5 years leading to more rapid depreciation)

So the Astra will be worth $4500 or less in 5 years. Its your proposition that rustproffing it (when there is likley to be no rust shown on other astras of the same year anyways) is going to increase its value by more than 13%? Get serious.

Now take a closer look. This astra is supposed to have over 300K on it in 5 years. That's 3 times the normal mileage. That car even if in rust free condition is likley going to be worth 2500 or LESS becuase of the excessive miles. Is rustproffing going to boost the value by 25%!? no way. Sorry but the math is just bad on this one. Putting rustproffing on a car that you will drive 300K in 5 years and then get rid of it (especially one that is an orphan vehicle) is just a waste of money.

Might want to run the same calculation on the added cost of syntheic over 300km?

[Flinter]

Congrats on the new Astra. Certainly looks like an amazing car for the money.

I'm also a big believer in rust proofing. I did it every year on my old Integra and the body is still completely rust free after 10 years. I think you will get the full value back on a car you intend to keep for only 5 years when the time comes to trade or sell.

Kindly indulge me in the math on this one.

Lets say the cost of rustproffing is $600 over the course of 5 years (including tax)

The Astra retailed for 10,999

Lets be conservative and go with these assumptions http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/new-car-every-10-years-or-used-car-every-5.htm

The according to that the Astra would be worth 41% of the pusrchase price in year 5. (I say conservative becuase that is the depreciation on a noraml model the Astra is an "orphan" and the compnay that made it Saturn may have 0 dealers around in 5 years leading to more rapid depreciation)

So the Astra will be worth $4500 or less in 5 years. Its your proposition that rustproffing it (when there is likley to be no rust shown on other astras of the same year anyways) is going to increase its value by more than 13%? Get serious.

Now take a closer look. This astra is supposed to have over 300K on it in 5 years. That's 3 times the normal mileage. That car even if in rust free condition is likley going to be worth 2500 or LESS becuase of the excessive miles. Is rustproffing going to boost the value by 25%!? no way. Sorry but the math is just bad on this one. Putting rustproffing on a car that you will drive 300K in 5 years and then get rid of it (especially one that is an orphan vehicle) is just a waste of money.

Might want to run the same calculation on the added cost of syntheic over 300km?

You make a good point here and you are probably correct. I guess from my perspective, I would be happy to pay the extra $600 for any 5 year old used vehicle that was rustproofed each year. Perhaps I am in the extreme minority on this one. 

[Ontariodriver]

I'm clad you went manual. This car the automatic was really a 2nd thought IMO. Astra are fairly quick in manual form and should be reliable and handle well. They are very good cars. I know a few people with same Astra that have had no issues with them. You can't go wrong with a car for that price. It is bloody great deal. If I was shopping for the Civic at this came along at the time. For 10K plus tax I would hand over my cash and run the car into the ground. At this price, it is the price of used 80-100K corolla.

[DockMan]

I guess from my perspective, I would be happy to pay the extra $600 for any 5 year old used vehicle that was rustproofed each year.

 

[toolatecrew]

You make a good point here and you are probably correct. I guess from my perspective, I would be happy to pay the extra $600 for any 5 year old used vehicle that was rustproofed each year. Perhaps I am in the extreme minority on this one. 

As I said you need to look at tyhe %s. If you are buying a 5 year old 15k Camary or Accord or something and you value rustproofing than an extra 500 bucks Is like 3%. Its basically nothing. What we are talking about here is likley a 2-3 k because of mileage. People who are shopping for cars in that range are looking for cheap beaters. 500 puts a new set of tires on! Joe average looking on Craigslist for a cheap car isn't going to pay 500 extra for a car with 300k on it becuase its been crowned. Especially if the majority of non crowned cars of that model don't show rust.

[Leviathan]

Kindly indulge me in the math on this one.

Lets say the cost of rustproffing is $600 over the course of 5 years (including tax)

The Astra retailed for 10,999

Lets be conservative and go with these assumptions http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/new-car-every-10-years-or-used-car-every-5.htm

The according to that the Astra would be worth 41% of the pusrchase price in year 5. (I say conservative becuase that is the depreciation on a noraml model the Astra is an "orphan" and the compnay that made it Saturn may have 0 dealers around in 5 years leading to more rapid depreciation)

So the Astra will be worth $4500 or less in 5 years. Its your proposition that rustproffing it (when there is likley to be no rust shown on other astras of the same year anyways) is going to increase its value by more than 13%? Get serious.

Now take a closer look. This astra is supposed to have over 300K on it in 5 years. That's 3 times the normal mileage. That car even if in rust free condition is likley going to be worth 2500 or LESS becuase of the excessive miles. Is rustproffing going to boost the value by 25%!? no way. Sorry but the math is just bad on this one. Putting rustproffing on a car that you will drive 300K in 5 years and then get rid of it (especially one that is an orphan vehicle) is just a waste of money.

He paid $10,990 although the car is still a, what, 17,000 MSRP and a little more OTD vehicle. $600 spent over 5 years to keep it as rust free as possible could get you a car that is in overall better shape at the end vs a rust bucket. Human nature and all. Does that matter for a car used for sales?

Might want to run the same calculation on the added cost of syntheic over 300km?

This car is going to see the redline quite regularly as "the power is suckage". A few extra bucks on synth per change seems like a reasonable added expense. Also, is synth really that much extra since you can usually go with longer oil change intervals?

Again, not our decisions.

[toolatecrew]

Kindly indulge me in the math on this one.

Lets say the cost of rustproffing is $600 over the course of 5 years (including tax)

The Astra retailed for 10,999

Lets be conservative and go with these assumptions http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/new-car-every-10-years-or-used-car-every-5.htm

The according to that the Astra would be worth 41% of the pusrchase price in year 5. (I say conservative becuase that is the depreciation on a noraml model the Astra is an "orphan" and the compnay that made it Saturn may have 0 dealers around in 5 years leading to more rapid depreciation)

So the Astra will be worth $4500 or less in 5 years. Its your proposition that rustproffing it (when there is likley to be no rust shown on other astras of the same year anyways) is going to increase its value by more than 13%? Get serious.

Now take a closer look. This astra is supposed to have over 300K on it in 5 years. That's 3 times the normal mileage. That car even if in rust free condition is likley going to be worth 2500 or LESS becuase of the excessive miles. Is rustproffing going to boost the value by 25%!? no way. Sorry but the math is just bad on this one. Putting rustproffing on a car that you will drive 300K in 5 years and then get rid of it (especially one that is an orphan vehicle) is just a waste of money.

He paid $10,990 although the car is still a, what, 17,000 MSRP and a little more OTD vehicle. $600 spent over 5 years to keep it as rust free as possible could get you a car that is in overall better shape at the end vs a rust bucket. Human nature and all. Does that matter for a car used for sales?

Might want to run the same calculation on the added cost of syntheic over 300km?

This car is going to see the redline quite regularly as "the power is suckage". A few extra bucks on synth per change seems like a reasonable added expense. Also, is synth really that much extra since you can usually go with longer oil change intervals?

Again, not our decisions.

Why do you keep saying "not our decsion"? Opinions were requested. No needf to qualify eveerything eith not our decsion.

Is there evidence that after 5 years that the Astra will be a rust bucket? Most modern cars are very rust resitant from the factory.

As for synth I've owned many cars that have been run to red line on dino oil. It was that way for many many years . If a car comes from the factory with synth and is required then fine. If someone wants to put it in their 130hp econ car that's their choice. We were asked for opinuons and on cost benifit basis there doesn't seem to be a support for synth in this instance IMO (which is key).Its like saying painting your house orange keeps away Crocodiles. See my house is orange and a crocodile has never come into my house must work right?

His car, his decsion. Just seems funny to find such a screaming deal and then spend a bunch of extra $ on things of questionable value given the situation.

If you want to take 1K or whatever and spend it on the car why not set it aside for say better tires? More value in that IMO.

[tortoise]

His car, his decsion. Just seems funny to find such a screaming deal and then spend a bunch of extra $ on things of questionable value given the situation.

People recommending rust proofing keep forgetting about the 300,000 km.   There's little to no resale value to worry about.  As for synth, I find my car runs a little smoother with it plus it has to start in the dead of an Ottawa winter so I run it.  Also, if this car is going to see lots of short trips then it may help reducing sludge.

Sweet car for a ridiculous price.  It's a shame that Saturn was killed off right when they got around to full-filling their mission as the "import fighter".

[johngenx]

I keep my cars WAY too long to bother with rustproofing.  And yes, Alberta uses salt, lots of it.  New cars have good factory rustproofing and when you see a 12-15 year old car (or more) with 350K (or more) on the odo, how much more is it worth if it has less rust?  Not much.  If I were planning on selling it at the 7-8 year mark, well, maybe.

As for synthetic oil, I keep my cars WAY too long not to use it.  Cold weather starts are killers (and we have our share) and I often start my car after it's been sitting at a winter trailhead unplugged, at -30C, for days.  That ability of the synthetic to flow fast is worth it, for me.  I've driven several cars to well over 400K without any engine problems, so I'll just keep doing it.

The Astra is not an alternative to buying any other new car.  It's a USED car!  Well, it's a used car with 0km and all the warranty and no one else owned it!  $11K is USED car pricing!!  I'm tempted to buy one, just because, but I have no need for a new car, but crap, that's so much car for the dough it's insane.  A friend of mine bought a loaded one (with an original sticker of $22K) for THIRTEEN GRAND!  Huh?  They're LITERALLY giving these nice little cars away.

Hey, this link...

http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/new-car-every-10-years-or-used-car-every-5.htm

Is not bad, but what about buying a used car and driving it for 10 years?  We've done that with great success.  I see no reason why I can't drive my Forester, that I bought almost six years ago, for another 4-5 years.  We had a Mazda 626 that was retired after 16 years from new, and it was very dependable and cheap right until the AT died at the end of it's life.

The "sweet spot" seems to be used cars that are not Honda/Toyota (don't depreciate enough!) that are three years old.  Lost lots of value, but still usually under warranty and have 8+ years of good life left.