CTC Review: 2009 Lexus IS-F

[Mitlov]

I think it looks mellower in pics.  It's a bit more brash in the flesh....but still a bit understated.  IMO the car that looks the most "in your face" is the CTS-V.

Huh.  I guess brashness is in the eye of the beholder just as much as beauty is.  I'd rank them, from most brash to least:

M3 coupe, IS-F, M3 sedan, C63, CTS-V, RS4.

[carsncars]

In person the hood bulge is much more prominent. Personally I think it's less subtle than the M3 sedan (more boy-racer-ish). There's something to be said for the value of subtlety.

[TopGun]

$66 grand and no Bluetooth or Satellite radio?  When is GM going to realize that to compete in this segment...oh...it`s a Lexus...never mind then.   

[Erik]

No experience with the IS-F, but I HATED my recent drive of the IS 250 AWD. One of the biggest automotive disappointments in years.

I'm curious; what disappointed you so much?

Got to drive it at a BMW test day thing. Compared it to a new A4 and a 335 and a 328.

First, the Lexus was the only one I could not get a comfortable driving position in. It was the only one with Nintendoesque steering feel. Bugger all feel there. On the test track, it handled by far the worst of the bunch. Not confidence inspiring in the least when driven reasonable hard.
The Audi was ok, and the two Bimmers were killer. That 335 has one hell of an engine.
There was nothing about the Lexus that made me think I would want to choose it over any of the others. The professional drivers there seemed to have a good chuckle over it too. Just nothing sporting about this sports sedan.

[rrocket]

That 335 has one hell of an engine.

Wow...shock of the year.  A 300+HP Twin turbo engine was better than a 207 HP V6?  Wow.  No way!!     And lemme guess...the IS250 didn't have the Sport Package on it either, eh?   

Even the lowly 328 makes 30 more HP than the Lexus.  You'd have been just as disappointed with the 200HP 323 for power I suspect.

There's a reason BMW doesn't have IS350s and G37s on hand for demo days.....

Not much you can do about fitting in it though.  IIRC...you're a pretty tall dude.

[rrocket]

$66 grand and no Bluetooth or Satellite radio?  When is GM going to realize that to compete in this segment...oh...it`s a Lexus...never mind then.   

It's about time you figured it out!   

[TopGun]

Wow...shock of the year.  A 300+HP Twin turbo engine was better than a 207 HP V6?  Wow.  No way!!     And lemme guess...the IS250 didn't have the Sport Package on it either, eh?

Typical, typical typical...taking selective things out of posts and using that in an attempt to discredit the post...how `bout the rest of it?

• It was the only one with Nintendoesque steering feel. Bugger all feel there.
• On the test track, it handled by far the worst of the bunch - i.e. not only vs. the 335.

[TopGun]

$66 grand and no Bluetooth or Satellite radio?  When is GM going to realize that to compete in this segment...oh...it`s a Lexus...never mind then.   

It's about time you figured it out!   

Oh, I figured that out a long time ago...I just like you too much to put you on ignore!   

[rrocket]

Wow...shock of the year.  A 300+HP Twin turbo engine was better than a 207 HP V6?  Wow.  No way!!     And lemme guess...the IS250 didn't have the Sport Package on it either, eh?

Typical, typical typical...taking selective things out of posts and using that in an attempt to discredit the post...how `bout the rest of it?

• It was the only one with Nintendoesque steering feel. Bugger all feel there.
• On the test track, it handled by far the worst of the bunch - i.e. not only vs. the 335.

I did address the other things.  As I said...I guarantee you it was the "base" IS250.  No Sport Package.  With the Sport Package, it actually handles very, very well.  I think Mitlov drove one equipped as such and really liked it.  Not too mention the base IS250 is ~$6,000 cheaper than the 328.

[Erik]

Wow...shock of the year.  A 300+HP Twin turbo engine was better than a 207 HP V6?  Wow.  No way!!     And lemme guess...the IS250 didn't have the Sport Package on it either, eh?

Typical, typical typical...taking selective things out of posts and using that in an attempt to discredit the post...how `bout the rest of it?

• It was the only one with Nintendoesque steering feel. Bugger all feel there.
• On the test track, it handled by far the worst of the bunch - i.e. not only vs. the 335.

I did address the other things.  As I said...I guarantee you it was the "base" IS250.  No Sport Package.  With the Sport Package, it actually handles very, very well.  I think Mitlov drove one equipped as such and really liked it.  Not too mention the base IS250 is ~$6,000 cheaper than the 328.

Actually, they had every level of BMW there, so you could compare whatever you wanted. I just singled out the engine on the 335 cause it was just really sweet.

I would expect a sports sedan, which I understood the Lexus to be, should not have a helm like a 1975 Lincoln.

Weren't people just trashing the SHO here recently for making the good brakes part of an option package? I would at least expect the Lexus to be competitive with a BMW, even with the base suspension. I really didn't expect it to be THAT far behind.

Always wondered why the IS-F was only a couple of seconds faster around the 'Ring than the 1/3 price, FWD, less powerful, Cobalt SS...

[rrocket]

Always wondered why the IS-F was only a couple of seconds faster around the 'Ring than the 1/3 price, FWD, less powerful, Cobalt SS...

I dunno.  It's odd.  We're in the same boat.  I wondered the same thing about the 1/3 more expensive ZR-1 (7:26.4) being faster by mere .3 seconds than the less powerful GT-R (7:26.7).   



Yea..people were pissing on the SHO because it was the TOP LINE model that cost the same or MORE than the competition.  The IS250 is not the top line model...nor does it cost more than the competiton..even the cheapest 323.  Was the 328 even a base model you drove?  I'm having a hard time believing the 328 they had on hand was the base model with 16" wheels.  Let me guess...it wasn't, right?  Is it really that hard to believe a base car (IS250) was significantly behind a car that wasn't their very base car (323)....or even a model higher up (328) that also wasn't the base car?

I'm not doubting that the IS250 was lagging behind.  I'm just saying they weren't comparing "apples to apples" as close as they could have.  Which is no surprise since the demo drive is to highlight their cars, and not the competition (hence no IS350 or G37s).

[Erik]

Always wondered why the IS-F was only a couple of seconds faster around the 'Ring than the 1/3 price, FWD, less powerful, Cobalt SS...

I dunno.  It's odd.  We're in the same boat.  I wondered the same thing about the 1/3 more expensive ZR-1 (7:26.4) being faster by mere .3 seconds than the less powerful GT-R (7:26.7).   

Well, that's easy. Nissan had to discount it like crazy to make up for the butt ugly looks.

I'm not doubting that the IS250 was lagging behind.  I'm just saying they weren't comparing "apples to apples" as close as they could have.  Which is no surprise since the demo drive is to highlight their cars, and not the competition (hence no IS350 or G37s).

Just to clarify, they had EVERY combination of 3 series there, except the M3. AWD and Rear. Automatic and manual.

[rrocket]

Always wondered why the IS-F was only a couple of seconds faster around the 'Ring than the 1/3 price, FWD, less powerful, Cobalt SS...

I dunno.  It's odd.  We're in the same boat.  I wondered the same thing about the 1/3 more expensive ZR-1 (7:26.4) being faster by mere .3 seconds than the less powerful GT-R (7:26.7).   

Well, that's easy. Nissan had to discount it like crazy to make up for the butt ugly looks.

I'm not doubting that the IS250 was lagging behind.  I'm just saying they weren't comparing "apples to apples" as close as they could have.  Which is no surprise since the demo drive is to highlight their cars, and not the competition (hence no IS350 or G37s).

Just to clarify, they had EVERY combination of 3 series there, except the M3. AWD and Rear. Automatic and manual.

That's GT-R list prive vs. ZR-1 list price...


But the cars you were comparing the base IS250 against were likely not base cars., especially the 328i you sampled comes base with 16" wheels.

I'm curious...what about the IS250 you could not get comfy about?  The IS250 has 2" more front legroom than a 3 Series.  Was it the seat you didn't like??  Or??

[Erik]

Always wondered why the IS-F was only a couple of seconds faster around the 'Ring than the 1/3 price, FWD, less powerful, Cobalt SS...

I dunno.  It's odd.  We're in the same boat.  I wondered the same thing about the 1/3 more expensive ZR-1 (7:26.4) being faster by mere .3 seconds than the less powerful GT-R (7:26.7).   

Well, that's easy. Nissan had to discount it like crazy to make up for the butt ugly looks.

I'm not doubting that the IS250 was lagging behind.  I'm just saying they weren't comparing "apples to apples" as close as they could have.  Which is no surprise since the demo drive is to highlight their cars, and not the competition (hence no IS350 or G37s).

Just to clarify, they had EVERY combination of 3 series there, except the M3. AWD and Rear. Automatic and manual.

That's GT-R list prive vs. ZR-1 list price...


But the cars you were comparing the base IS250 against were likely not base cars., especially the 328i you sampled comes base with 16" wheels.

I'm curious...what about the IS250 you could not get comfy about?  The IS250 has 2" more front legroom than a 3 Series.  Was it the seat you didn't like??  Or??

The seat seemed ok. Just couldn't get the relationship of seat, wheel and pedals right. Wheel was too far away. Steering was too light. Felt tight and confining inside. Never had the problem with the other two.

I know that the A4 was the absolute base model too, and it still felt better, even if I was not that crazy about it. Brakes felt like crap under ABS too.

And I know it is list vs. list. The boys at Nissan were smart enough to know that no one would buy one at the same price as a ZR1, so they knocked 20% off the price....

[rrocket]

And I know it is list vs. list. The boys at Nissan were smart enough to know that no one would buy one at the same price as a ZR1, so they knocked 20% off the price....

Heh.....if you say that enough times to yourself, will you start to believe it??   

Ever think of giving the IS350 a go to see if you like it better?

[quadzilla]

I'm not doubting that the IS250 was lagging behind.  I'm just saying they weren't comparing "apples to apples" as close as they could have.  Which is no surprise since the demo drive is to highlight their cars, and not the competition (hence no IS350 or G37s).

Just to clarify, they had EVERY combination of 3 series there, except the M3. AWD and Rear. Automatic and manual.

Well I went to the Toronto drive event and they only had one type of each 3 series optioned as they wanted it, ie: sports package and/or better tires, etc. so not really EVERY combination. With the competition they had base trims of their cars most with crappier all season tires. As we all know, tires can make a huge difference in handling.

I didn't get a chance to drive the IS250 so I can't speak to that but I did drive the Benz and Audi. The Benz has its steering so over-boosted it was very hard to drive through the course, the Audi wasn't as bad but more boost than I expected (IE: My GTi was much closer to BMW than the Audi was).

Of course I did drive the BMW323 and it felt like a dog when I pressed on the go pedal that I thought it was broken. The Mazda5 I drove before felt more responsive when pressing the go pedal, how sad is that?

It was obvious that BMW set up the course and competition to favor its cars and would only mean something for people that prefer sportier driving. All their cars (BMW) have really heavy steering and that would be a turn off to people who don't like that so the other cars would be more their style.

I've never seen the IS250AWD as a BMW fighter, its a car for people that want something different. A small luxury car that would be safe to drive all year round. People that buy this don't have racing and/or sporting driving on their list of priorities so its a great pick.

As to the IS-F, I like the looks and would love to take one for a spin some day.

[Mitlov]

Wow...shock of the year.  A 300+HP Twin turbo engine was better than a 207 HP V6?  Wow.  No way!!     And lemme guess...the IS250 didn't have the Sport Package on it either, eh?

Typical, typical typical...taking selective things out of posts and using that in an attempt to discredit the post...how `bout the rest of it?

• It was the only one with Nintendoesque steering feel. Bugger all feel there.
• On the test track, it handled by far the worst of the bunch - i.e. not only vs. the 335.

I did address the other things.  As I said...I guarantee you it was the "base" IS250.  No Sport Package.  With the Sport Package, it actually handles very, very well.  I think Mitlov drove one equipped as such and really liked it.  Not too mention the base IS250 is ~$6,000 cheaper than the 328.

I did.  I had no trouble getting comfortable (though it did feel much smaller inside than an E90 3-Series) and the handling with the sports package was very good (though the ride was surprisingly harsh).

HOWEVER, the steering, while precise, lacked feedback.  That was one real negative I remember.  As I wrote in my review, "The steering was direct and precise, but feedback was extremely muted.  It was there, but very very very quiet."

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,57494.0.html

[[ EMT ]]

Hello Wing,

   Now that you have been driving this car for a few days, do you think that it is worth the price Lexus is asking for? or would you rather take your money to the competition (ie. MB, BMW, Audi, Infinity) ? Thanks in advance.

[Mitlov]

Hello Wing,

   Now that you have been driving this car for a few days, do you think that it is worth the price Lexus is asking for? or would you rather take your money to the competition (ie. MB, BMW, Audi, Infinity) ? Thanks in advance.

Infiniti has no competition for the IS-F, and until the next-generation RS4 is revealed, neither does Audi.

[wing]

I'd take a real manual or a DSG...  M3 (although I haven't been fortunate enough to drive it).

Corvette....