Author Topic: 09 Patriot cvt vs. manual (Read 3303 times)

TJ Sask · « **on:** July 14, 2009, 12:44:42 am »

I'm looking at getting an 09 Patriot but can't decide between the cvt or the manual tranny. I'm looking for advice from actual experience not just I've heard from a friend of a friend or read it in Car & Driver. How are your cvt's holding up and how many km's do you have on them? I've driven them and they don't feel as bad as what you hear from so called experts, I'm just nervous about their long term reliability.

rrocket · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2009, 12:53:09 am »

You've kinda answered your own question....if you're nervous, go with the stick. Cheap, easy to replace...and generally work pretty well.

carsncars · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2009, 12:54:37 am »

Have you driven the Patriot's CVT in particular? We 24-hour test-drove one last summer and the CVT was kind of buzzy, and felt like it sapped the power out of the engine. It's not that it's a CVT--I like Nissan's CVTs, generally--it's that the Patriot's in particular is not the greatest, in my opinion. A short spin in the Patriot 5MT showed that it was a totally different driving experience (but by then we'd decided against it for other reasons).

I can't speak to reliability of Jeep's unit in particular. Nissan's have proven to be fairly reliable--no less reliable than your average automatic transmission, anyways. A lot of fears over CVTs are because of earlier iterations... newer units are refined and reasonably durable.

Leviathan · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2009, 01:19:15 am »

5 speed all the way.

sparky · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2009, 02:49:44 am »

If I were buying a small SUV, I'd opt for the manual over any kind of automatic. Questions about durability aside, I just think the manual works better in that kind of vehicle. Careful teaming of the throttle and clutch provides much more subtle control in tricky winter and offroad conditions. At least it does for me. It's more fun, too.

jamie1 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2009, 11:22:01 am »

Quote from: carsncars on July 14, 2009, 12:54:37 am

Have you driven the Patriot's CVT in particular? We 24-hour test-drove one last summer and the CVT was kind of buzzy, and felt like it sapped the power out of the engine. It's not that it's a CVT--I like Nissan's CVTs, generally--it's that the Patriot's in particular is not the greatest, in my opinion. A short spin in the Patriot 5MT showed that it was a totally different driving experience (but by then we'd decided against it for other reasons).

I can't speak to reliability of Jeep's unit in particular. Nissan's have proven to be fairly reliable--no less reliable than your average automatic transmission, anyways. A lot of fears over CVTs are because of earlier iterations... newer units are refined and reasonably durable.

The CVT that Chyrsler uses is the SAME CVT that Nissan uses. Both made by JATCO.
We have not had any CVT failures at the dealership I work at. That said, the Patriot with the 4WD and 5 speed is a very enjoyable to drive. More so in the winter

.

Juke1 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2009, 03:03:47 pm »

My dealership says they've had 1 failure ever since the Murano came out with it, not a bad record

carsncars · « **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2009, 05:26:18 pm »

If that's the case (that the CVT is the same/similar to the Jatco units Nissan uses) I would have no reliability concerns about the CVT--it'd come down to a matter of personal taste.

The CVT isn't actually all that slow in comparison to the 5MT, but it makes the engine feel like it's had the wind knocked out of it. Perhaps the Nissan CVT is programmed differently--also, the CVT seems to go better with Nissan's VQ V6 (I've never driven a 4-cyl. CVT Nissan).

Juke1 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2009, 05:54:44 pm »

It's a different sensation, the 4cyl w/cvt is as quick as most V6, but does not feel like it until you look at the speedo and the mirror

carsncars · « **Reply #9 on:** July 14, 2009, 06:46:20 pm »

Quote from: Altima1 on July 14, 2009, 05:54:44 pm

It's a different sensation, the 4cyl w/cvt is as quick as most V6, but does not feel like it until you look at the speedo and the mirror

I think it's how the raspy-ness/buzziness of the 4-cyl. is emphasized by the CVT holding it constant at high RPMs--and the CVT has to "gear down" more because of the lack of low-end torque in a 4-cyl., so the "rubber band" effect the CVT has is more noticeable. In a V6, it's not as noticeable--the engine's quieter and smoother, and has more low end torque so the CVT doesn't "gear down" as much.

For getting from A to B, it's superior to a traditional automatic--more fuel efficient and often quicker. But it leaves the driving "experience" a little lacking (though I've got to say that Nissan's implementation of paddle shifters is quite good).

dorin · « **Reply #10 on:** July 14, 2009, 11:28:49 pm »

Manual all the way! If not for reliability reasons, then for drivability reasons.

TISMIN2001 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2009, 02:03:57 pm »

OK
so i actually work in sales for chrysler so i know first hand everything about these vehicles

The best package for this vehicle is a 4x4 in 5 speed
the cvt is too loud, and is definitly gonna feel annoying

stay away from the fwd your better off in a caliber for less money and its the same car

Sival · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2009, 02:37:59 pm »

Quote from: TISMIN2001 on July 17, 2009, 02:03:57 pm

OK
so i actually work in sales for chrysler so i know first hand everything about these vehicles

The best package for this vehicle is a 4x4 in 5 speed
the cvt is too loud, and is definitly gonna feel annoying

stay away from the fwd your better off in a caliber for less money and its the same car

Actually, the main problem with the CVT versus the 5-speed is the poor fuel economy. The 5-speed Patriot is one of the most fuel efficient compact SUV available, if not the most fuel-efficient excluding hybrids. The CVT's ratings on the other hand are average for the class, disappointing considering that the CVT is supposed to be chosen for better fuel efficiency and that other brands like Nissan and, now, Subaru sometimes get 5 to 15% better fuel economy on their CVT compared to their manual version of the same car.

As to staying away from the FWD and instead opting for the Caliber... more or less. The Patriot and Compass are roughly the same cars as the Caliber, but they're slightly bigger, which is good for cargo room and for rear legroom (about 4 inches more in the Patriot over the Caliber). So if you foresee adult passengers in your back seat relatively frequently, the Patriot and Compass make more sense than a Caliber, especially since they're not particularly more expensive.

TISMIN2001 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2009, 02:42:29 pm »

assuming you go for 2.4L engine fuel economy isnt much of a difference

5 speed manual= 9.0l/100k (31mpg)
cvt= 9.7l/100k (29mpg)

both figures are with fwd

but personally if you compare all the same platforms id stick with the patriot as well.....

safristi · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2009, 02:51:28 pm »

........PATRIOT GAMES?............seems as many reports diss the Nissan CVT in the Patriot...when it is lauded in their cars...i.e Versa,Murano etc..... WOT GIVES....... the installation...the technology swapped/shared is only half arsed.....enlighten us oh SOMEONE.....

TISMIN2001 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2009, 02:55:41 pm »

its just a frikken annoying setup,
picture driving a car that sounds like a lawnmower, no gears shifting just a constant WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
hahahaha
well maybe not like that, but every time i have a test drive in a patriot the customer always complains about the way it sounds... People just arent used to hearing the way the system works, its especially brutal driving on the highway and when you step on the gas all you get is that noise...

safristi · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2009, 03:04:57 pm »

..so Tissy..

..Jeep drivers have the hearing of a FERRIT....but Versa,,,Murano ...Ford 500 drivers are DEAF & DUMB.....not buying that..........unless the Patriot was designed as an ECHO CHAMBER !!!!!

TISMIN2001 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2009, 03:07:11 pm »

huh?
im not saying that at all, i agree with them, thats why i say if theres a choice in any vehicle between a manual or a cvt id go with the stick.....

safristi · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2009, 03:10:14 pm »

HUH.....folk like the SAME ....CVT in Nissan vehicles ...the Q? is why is it such a NO NO in the JEEP....comprende?......................

Sival · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2009, 03:17:19 pm »

Quote from: TISMIN2001 on July 17, 2009, 02:42:29 pm

assuming you go for 2.4L engine fuel economy isnt much of a difference

5 speed manual= 9.0l/100k (31mpg)
cvt= 9.7l/100k (29mpg)

both figures are with fwd

but personally if you compare all the same platforms id stick with the patriot as well.....

Actually, for 2009, the 5-speed manual gets 8,9 l/100 km in the city and 7,1 on the highway versus 9,7 l/100 km in the city and 8,0 l/100 km on the highway for the CVT. That's nearly 1 l/100 km more for the CVT, or roughly 10% more. When we know that more and more automatic versions nearly match or even beat their manual versions, this is highly disappointing, especially on the highway. The Patriot CVT consumes more fuel on the highway than the Journey with the same 2,4L engine and an old 4-speed automatic transmission (OK, it's 8,0 versus 7,9 but still).

At the same time, the Nissan Versa gets about 5% better fuel economy with the CVT than with the manual, and the Nissan Rogue with an older 2,5L engine and a CVT from the same company (Jatco) gets 7,2 l/100 km on the highway and 9,1 in the city.

And BTW, I test drove a Sentra and a Versa, and I love the way the CVT goes, then again I'm soft on the accelerator so I don't force the transmission to go up and down in revs like people for whom the accelerator pedal is actually an ON/OFF switch. Gentle driving with a CVT is unbelievably smooth.

Quote from: safristi

........PATRIOT GAMES?............seems as many reports diss the Nissan CVT in the Patriot...when it is lauded in their cars...i.e Versa,Murano etc..... WOT GIVES....... the installation...the technology swapped/shared is only half arsed.....enlighten us oh SOMEONE.....

From what I heard, Chrysler declined to use the programmation offered by Jatco and used their own instead, which is why I suppose the CVT gets blasted in Chrysler vehicles. From videos of Nissans and Dodges with CVTs, I think the main difference is that the Chrysler version is jumpier, meaning it changes ratios quicker than the Nissans. This would result in engines more often reaching and staying in higher RPMs, thus more noise that sticks around too long. The Nissan's tend to reach the redline only at speeds around 100-110 Km/h, so the noise increase is more gradual and thus more pleasing for drivers who associate the noise with the speed of the car.