Would you buy a diesel just for the torque

[goodsonr]

As the subject-line says - cost-aside, would you buy a diesel just for the torque.

I'll be replacing our 95 legacy wagon sometime in the next few years - with another wagon.  One of the options I'm targetting is the Jetta wagon.  Its the right size with the right mix of features (more than I can say for Subaru if they drop the legacy and try and force me into the  porkier 2010 Outback)

Now - most of my motoring life I've lived with average 4-cylinder engines.  Part of me wants something different - something with more passing ooomph on the highway -- and much longer range than the 550 km I get now.  So, of course - the diesel comes to mind.

My driving habits are such that a diesel is not going to save me any meaningful money in gas.  I don't drive much in the city, and we do only a handful of long highway trips per year (maybe 5,000 km worth).  Given that the initial purchase price is more and maintenance might be more - I'm having a hard time justifying a diesel vs the standard 2.5 gas engine except as an expensive add-on

So - c'mon - convince me I'm not crazy (this is an enthusiast site, after all).  Or give me other options.  I prefer to buy new, but don't want to spend a boatload of money (I'm over 50 but not .. well you get the idea) so I'm not going to be picking up a Audi A6 Avant (too bad)

[ovr50]

Well, I'm the real "over 50", at least on this site, and the direct answer to your query is "Yes, I would". Diesels are real torque monsters, and I think I like the new BMW diesel engine in the 335 and the X5. I say "think" as I have not driven one yet, but I love the torque-curve on my 3.0L TT gas engine.

A Jetta TDI wagon would fit your requirements, if I read your post correctly. 

[vdk]

Wait till September or so and grab the new one, the Mk6. And yes I would get the diesel in a heartbeat.

[PJungnitsch]

The Ford Ecoboost has a crazy flat torque curve, should pull like a diesel while still running on gas.

[johngenx]

Other than some true high performance cars I've owned, one of the finest cars to drive was our 98 MB E300 turbodiesel.  It made enough torque to pull cedar stumps!  Even though it was only as quick as the gasoline E320, it was more fun to drive thanks to the low end pull.  When I first tested the car I thought "The fuel economy is just a bonus!  This is a great driving car!"

I'd be shopping for a new Forester in a heart-beat of they come out with the diesel.

[quadzilla]

The Jetta TDI is a really nice car and now quite large, same as the last gen Passat I believe.

VW's 2.0T is also a nice engine with a flat tq curve from 1800 rpm. If you can live with less trunk space (just add a roof box for more space) a base 5 door GTi is $29K and starts well equipped.

The Jetta Wagon TDI starts at $26K and the Comfortline is $28.3K

Also in the fall the Golf diesel should be in Canada, might be cheaper than the Jetta wagon.

Since getting my GTi I love the tq and would miss not having it now.

To answer your question, yes I would if it was available in a car that I also really liked. Example, VW Golf GTD.

[Trainman]

I am not sure, I would have to drive one first.  With the price of diesel, the extra purchase cost and maybe extra maintenance costs I am just not sure.  In my case, a 5 speed AT would be a better starting place.

....

I'd be shopping for a new Forester in a heart-beat of they come out with the diesel.

This was posted on the Forester forum, in a long discussion re the diesel Forester.  Note is says when, not if they will be available.  Best guess on the forum seems to be around 2012:

6/11/09 email response from Subaru

Dear

Thank you for your continued interest in Subaru products. As of now, we have not definitively announced when diesel models will be available to purchase in the US.

Early last year, Fuji Heavy Industries (FHI), our parent company introduced the world's first turbo diesel boxer engine for sale in European markets in the Legacy and Outback model lines. We then introduced diesel powered Impreza and Forester models in Europe late last year. Mr. Mori, FHI Chairman, had indicated early last year that U.S. diesel models should be available States-side in the next few years.

We appreciate your suggestion for Subaru to offer diesel powered models in the United States, as soon as possible. Your suggestion has been provided to our Product Planning Department for their review, tracking and consideration. We are always striving to improve upon our products and appreciate when our customers bring their interests to our attention.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of service. Have a great day!

Sincerely,

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Dealer Services Department
1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783)
Service Request #1-238687178

[initial_D]

The engine in the BMW 335D sure makes me having second thoughts about Diesel engines.

[goodsonr]

when the legacy gets replaced .. it will be with a wagon -- something with 40 inches or so from rear-seat to trunk (so that gets rid of most "hatches").  On the utility side - I prefer my volume to come from length and not height as I don't like piling the gear over the top of the seatbacks.  And some things - like loaded backpacks - don't fit in a box up-top (least not my Yakima SpaceBooster)

I would be quite happy with a legacy wagon AWD diesel, but the way things are going, I doubt I'll ever see that - the best I can hope for is the now pseudo-crossover-looking Outback and based on pictures I'm just not sure I want to look at it for 10+ years.

Anyway - glad to know I'm not the only one who would/might do it *just* for the torque with money and mileage set-aside.  As far as waiting for the 2010, from what I've read they are not a full MK6 but just updated front-end but internals all the same.  And, according to SirA's post in the VW TidBits (in Sales & Industry) sounds like the price is going up.

I'm not desperate to buy right now, but if the right deal came along (or the subie hit me with a big unexpected repair) I'd go for it.  So, I'm laying the groundwork of potential choices and what the priorities are.  Up to now, reliability has always been #1.  But hey --- we've got the saabaru 92-x as a backup vehicle and I'll be retired in a few years and will have lots of time to hang around the shop if the Jetta needs repairs so maybe reliability will slip a bit in the ranking with "fun to drive" moving up a notch

[quadzilla]

when the legacy gets replaced .. it will be with a wagon -- something with 40 inches or so from rear-seat to trunk (so that gets rid of most "hatches").  On the utility side - I prefer my volume to come from length and not height as I don't like piling the gear over the top of the seatbacks.  And some things - like loaded backpacks - don't fit in a box up-top (least not my Yakima SpaceBooster)

something with 40 inches or so from rear-seat to trunk (so that gets rid of most "hatches").

I think that gets rid of most cars. How many new wagons even meet this under $30K?

Legacy
Jetta
Elantra Touring
?

[rrocket]

I really like diesels.  The torque, the fuel economy.  But what kinda sucks (at least for me anyways) is the very low redline.  IIRC the Jetta we drove had a redline of just 4500RPM.  Yea, the torque was there...but you felt forever as if you were short shifting.  It wasn't as engaging as I thought it would be....

As someone else said, the torque curve of the new EcoBoost engines from Ford are remarkably flat for a gas engines...

[tpl]

When my GTI runs out of warranty ( 2012)  I'll be very tempted by a Golf diesel.  Always provided that VW in their wisdom see fit to sell a loaded version in Canada.  One just like my GTI but with a diesel engine. No stripped versions.  I think if I were to buy another GTI I'd go back to a manual transmission but with a diesel I'd stay DSG.... let the computers do the work.

I have driven many different diesels in Euland over the last 20 years including a Golf TDI and I rather like the high torque low revving nature of the engine.

[Shnak]

I've got another (related) question about diesel... it is okay to buy a diesel vehicle for mostly city driving? I know the previous gen of TDI's took pretty long to warm up during city driving... I wonder if this has improved with this new diesel engine?

[sirAQUAMAN64]

far as waiting for the 2010, from what I've read they are not a full MK6 but just updated front-end but internals all the same.  And, according to SirA's post in the VW TidBits (in Sales & Industry) sounds like the price is going up.

The VI should also be noteably more quiet. I don't know the pricing, but looks like the packaging has been streamlined - could be good or could be bad. If you wanted a Comfortline to begin with the elimination of the Trendline could mean the base MSRP goes up but for the content you wanted in the first place it'll reduce a tad. Really can't say. VW has been fairly aggressive with pricing of late though so don't think it'll be a huge difference either way.

Yes, I LOVE the characteristics of the diesel engines. And yes I'd prefer them regardless of mileage, which is again fantastic. But if you're only driving a grand total of 5K a year even I don't think I'd do it. The engines feel like they need to work. Mind you, the sucker should maintain excellent resale - the last gen Passat Wagon TDI's command ridiculous money in the used market.

[tpl]

I've got another (related) question about diesel... it is okay to buy a diesel vehicle for mostly city driving? I know the previous gen of TDI's took pretty long to warm up during city driving... I wonder if this has improved with this new diesel engine?

Could well be worse.  The more efficient a heat engine is, the less "wasted" heat to use in ancillaries... like the heater.  

heated seats are part of the answer. One would expect that a careful car designer would ensure that any available heat would first go to the windscreen defroster.

[Shnak]

Could well be worse.  The more efficient a heat engine is, the less "wasted" heat to use in ancillaries... like the heater.  

heated seats are part of the answer. One would expect that a careful car designer would ensure that any available heat would first go to the windscreen defroster.

I was just going to say that... it's not really heat in the cabin that's my concern, it's the defrosting the inside of the windshield!

Now, it wasn't too too bad with our 2004 TDI's, but our Sportage is noticeably better at defrosting quickly... then again, I suppose that's what you get with a small V6 not known for sipping fuel... a lot of it gets transformed into heat!

But yeah... the Jetta Wagon TDI DSG will be high on our list when we decide to replace the Sportage. We do like the format of the Sportage a lot (high, AWD, not too big), but we miss the driving feel of our VW's, especially when traveling. It's just too bad that VW doesn't offer something between the Tiguan (too small) and the Touareg (too big and expensive)... 

[blur911]

I got to try out a friends Mercedes E320CDI, wow.   

Torque makes me smile. 

HP is nice at the track, overrated otherwise.

[Spheric]

For some inexplicable reason that I cannot fathom, seeing Japanese and Diesel in the same sentence doesn't quite sound right.

[PJungnitsch]

For some inexplicable reason that I cannot fathom, seeing Japanese and Diesel in the same sentence doesn't quite sound right.

They build heaps of diesels. In SE Asia last winter the most common vehicles were double cab Toyota Hilux pickups with 2.4L turbodiesel engines.

[huota]

I think you will have to drive one to decide if diesel is right for you. Just like petrol engines, not all diesels are alike. I have driven a number of diesel cars over the last couple of years, and have taken the backseat in many more (taxis over here are always diesels or hybrids).

What I don't like about the majority the diesels is their driveability - bottom end torque is often very poor, then followed by a sudden surge of torque, and then it's all over by 4000 rpm. While this is not an issue on highway, it can be irritating in city driving. To counter that I would always go for an automatic.

That said, not all diesel engines are equal. I would not hesitate to buy a CDI Merc, but would never go for a diesel Toyota. This is based on the the "feel" of the engine as a passenger, I have not driven either one. I was once in the back seat of a Corolla Verso and got car sick from the vibrations. Not so long ago I took the back seat of a 5er diesel (a 525d, I suspect) and yes, it did vibrate too, so money does not necessarily buy you (as much) refinement as you would hope. I find most reviewers do not disclose the whole truth about the vibrations and the noise in their articles.

I can not comment on the Subaru diesel, as I have no personal experience of it. As for VW diesels, I think they are quickly becoming obsolete for the majority of people in markets where the TSI engines are available.

My 2 cents. What I am saying is that the spec sheet does not tell you the whole truth. Go try one.