CD Article: 2009 Toyota Yaris CE hatchback

[The Mighty Duck]

Indeed, I am.  But, when someone states that the Fit is a great handling car, the set of cars includes cars like that BMW 135i (a must drive to see what a terrific street chassis is all about) or whatever.  If you were to say "the Fit handles pretty well considering it's a FWD compact" I'd probably agree.  But, the idea that someone would buy a Fit over a Versa hatch 'cause the Fit is some handling demon just doesn't wash with me.  They do feel different, and you should buy whatever you prefer, but pushed to their limits, all those little cars are pretty much the same.

You take one drive in a 135 and suddenly using the phrase "handles well" to describe anything else is blasphemy. 

Comparing a $15 000 Fit to a $40 000 BMW is stupid, period.  There's no competition.  But when someone says "the Fit handles well", it doesn't take a genius to figure out they're not comparing it with a Bimmer.  No one should have to add a footnote saying "compared only to similarly priced competition in the same class".

As for feeling different but being the same at the limit...  what's your point?  I don't push my car to the limit in daily driving.  What I do appreciate is the Fit's superior feel when not at the limit, which is where I am 99% of the time.

So yeah, you've convinced us all that a BMW will outhandle a Fit.  Have I told you my theory about the sky being blue?

The Mini Classic I drove is sold in Canada. I don't know if it is sold in the USA.

I believe the Mini Classic is just a regular Mini with less content...  I think the drive train/suspension/etc. is the same.

[Mitlov]

My problem with John's comment about people saying "good-handling car" without an express qualification ("for a subcompact") is that the 135i is far from the be-all-end-all of good handling cars either.  It's fantastic compared to a Fit, but it's rubbish compared to an NSX or a Cayman.  Any conversation about good-handling cars would become a "money and practicality doesn't count" arms race ending up with the F430, then the Gumpert Apollo, etc. 

When someone says "this car handles great," I assume they mean within the general genre, even if they don't say so.  The 135i isn't remotely within the same genre.  The Mini is (it's more expensive, but still same genre IMO), as is the soon-to-arrive-here Fiat 500, which is why I was hoping for direct comparisons there. 

[johngenx]

The 135 is not the be-all and end-all of the handling world, but it is illustrative of how a "normal" sort of car (not a pure sports car like a Z-06 or S2000) can be set up to provide a comfortable ride, very high limits, and amazing precision and feedback.

Perhaps the "for a subcompact" qualifier is not right.  Since none of the subcompacts/compacts handle very well, we can just leave it at "none of them handle well."

I guess what it boils down to, for me, is when someone drones on about how they bought one FWD econo-compact over another 'cause the one they choose is a great handling car.  The differences in the segment are marginal, and none of them are even remotely close to be considered "good handling."

Since there exists no $20K car to illustrate "good handling" the examples must come from a different price segment.

[The Mighty Duck]

The 135 is not the be-all and end-all of the handling world, but it is illustrative of how a "normal" sort of car (not a pure sports car like a Z-06 or S2000) can be set up to provide a comfortable ride, very high limits, and amazing precision and feedback.

Perhaps the "for a subcompact" qualifier is not right.  Since none of the subcompacts/compacts handle very well, we can just leave it at "none of them handle well."

I guess what it boils down to, for me, is when someone drones on about how they bought one FWD econo-compact over another 'cause the one they choose is a great handling car.  The differences in the segment are marginal, and none of them are even remotely close to be considered "good handling."

Since there exists no $20K car to illustrate "good handling" the examples must come from a different price segment.

A 135 is far from a "normal" car.  Unless you think that a normal car is a small, RWD, twin turbo two seater with a price well above the average purchase price of a car in Canada.    All you're doing is arguing yourself in circles, and sounding pretentious while you do it.

You keep claiming that no compacts handle well, and then comparing them to the 135.  What you keep ignoring is the fact that your comparison is idiotic.  Comparing a five-seater, hatch-style, economy car that cost $15k to a two-seater, sport coupe with a price tag of $40k makes no sense.  I'm not quite sure why you're so obsessed with making such a ridiculous comparison, other than to talk about how great the 135 is some more.  We get it.  You drove one, you liked it.  If you think it's so great, go buy one instead of telling everyone how much better it is than a Fit or Yaris.

Your claim that "none of them handle well" is idiotic as well.  As Mitlov rightly points out, an NSX would shame a 135 in handling.  If we use your logic, we should conclude that the 135 does not handle well, because a car three times its price outdid it.  Instead what you're doing is making a ludicrous comparison between two completely different vehicles and claiming it's valid, and then sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring a comparison between, say, a 135 and an S2000.  Which, I think, is a much more valid comparison: both are roughly the same price, are available as a convertible, and seat two.  But for some reason you think comparing a 135 to a Fit is fair, but comparing it to an S2000 is not. 

And unless you've driven all of the compacts on the market, you're in no place to say whether any of them handle better than others.  I can tell you first hand that the Fit outhandles te Yaris and Versa, because I've actually driven all three of them.

And FYI, there is a compact in the $20k range that handles well.  Take a look at the reviews for the Cobalt SS - it was faster in Car and Driver's test than the 135.  I guess we should all start claiming that RWD sports cars all handle poorly because a FWD compact outdid one, right?

We all know your 135 ride made you wet yourself.  Stop trying to turn completely unrelated threads into sessions about how great it is.

[gosteelerz]

Funny thing is, you can see some of those crappy FWD cars clean up autoXs.  Used to watch some dude in a 92 Civic DX hatch embarrass Vettes and Miatas all day.

Do love John's sig, though.

[Honda Owner]

I have also been informed that a Saturn V rocket has better acceleration than my Fit, too.

[hoss]

Didn't Car and Driver test the previous edtion Fit and found it was the fastest car they had tested in the "lane change" test (I think) the page has been deleted. It beat Vettes and Ferraris.  I suspect that either of them might generate higher G forces then the BMW.

[Mitlov]

I have also been informed that a Saturn V rocket has better acceleration than my Fit, too.

It's about time you acknowledge the superiority of Saturn over Honda.

[Mitlov]

Didn't Car and Driver test the previous edtion Fit and found it was the fastest car they had tested in the "lane change" test (I think) the page has been deleted. It beat Vettes and Ferraris.  I suspect that either of them might generate higher G forces then the BMW.

I think that had more to do with the vehicle's relative widths than the actual handling ability.

The Fit does NOT out-handle the Ferrari F430.

[Honda Owner]

It's about time you acknowledge the superiority of Saturn over Honda.

Yes, but Saturn is out of production.

[hoss]

The Fit does NOT out-handle the Ferrari F430.

 My point was that real world handling is very subjective.  There are no places in the world where one can legally wring out a F430.  Where I find myself looking forward to off  ramps in the Fit. 
Years ago I can remember Cooper S's (real Mini's), out lapping Vettes at Mosport.

[Seafoam]

Yes , but what about the Yaris?

[Greg B.]

Stop trying to turn completely unrelated threads into sessions about how great it is.

I'm not sure why you are being critical of John for that. Once again HO has taken a thread about another car and turned it into a cheerleading session for the Fit. Talk about a one-trick pony... nothing ever changes around here. 

As for the comment earlier on about whether the Yaris would be better than the Accent after 240,000km, why would you want to drive either car that long? Life is too short to spend that much time in a buzzy subcompact.

[Brigitte]

Indeed.  This thread is about the Toyota Yaris, not some troller's viewpoint.

Honda Owner is looking to be banned.  His wish may come true.

[Schmengie]

Life is too short to spend that much time in a buzzy subcompact.

Which means what? That life isn't worth living for people who can't afford anything but a 'buzzy subcompact'? You have no idea what a truly 'buzzy' car's actually like unless you've driven a '76 Datsun B-210 for any length of time like I have. Compared to that thing, the Yaris is a BMW M3.

 

[Honda Owner]

OK, back on topic. I have driven many a Yaris, the sedan and the hatch versions and in both automatic and manual. I have even driven the 1.3 litre version overseas. They are everywhere, I see the used as driver's ed cars, I have seen many used abroad as taxis. How well a Yaris "handles" is not the point here, Yaris buyers are looking for good, reliable, car at a decent price that is economical to operate. The Yaris drives very well, it is certainly not "buzzy" and it is easy to drive and park. I would not for a minute hesitate to recommend one to anyone asking me for a good car buy. They are, in my opinion and according to any rating agency I have ever seen as close to bulletproof as any car can be.

A Yaris may not be the car for every person in the world but I am very sure the drivers who have bought one have been very happy with their purchase. I also congratulate Toyota for making base models easy to get. This car also qualifies for the $1000 sales tax rebate here in British Columbia so even before any incentives or rebates the car leases at $227 tax in with zero down or finances at $281 a month with zero down for sixty months. That is a screaming deal for a car of this quality.

[The Mighty Duck]

Stop trying to turn completely unrelated threads into sessions about how great it is.

I'm not sure why you are being critical of John for that. Once again HO has taken a thread about another car and turned it into a cheerleading session for the Fit. Talk about a one-trick pony... nothing ever changes around here. 

Indeed.  This thread is about the Toyota Yaris, not some troller's viewpoint.

Honda Owner is looking to be banned.  His wish may come true.

I think both these comments are incredibly unfair.  There is plenty of discussion on page 1 about the Yaris and it's merits versus both the Fit and the Accent.  HO's comments in no way turned the thread into a "cheering section" for the Fit, and I'm deeply disturbed that anyone would consider daring to mention the name of a close competitor in the same thread grounds for banning.

I'm also surprised that Greg objects to HO comparing the Yaris to the Fit, but has no objection to comparing the Yaris to a BMW 135.   

I sense a deep seated and, imo, relatively undeserved bias at work here.

As to the derailing of the thread, I apologize for my part in that.  But blaming any single individual for that would be ludicrous.  It takes at least two to derail a thread, and I count no less than four who contributed to that.

Yaris buyers are looking for good, reliable, car at a decent price that is economical to operate. The Yaris drives very well, it is certainly not "buzzy" and it is easy to drive and park. I would not for a minute hesitate to recommend one to anyone asking me for a good car buy. They are, in my opinion and according to any rating agency I have ever seen as close to bulletproof as any car can be.

  There's no denying the Yaris is an excellent car.  I'm not a fan of the hatch's looks, but I think the sedan looks great.  I still can't see myself buying one (obviously I went with the competition instead), but for someone looking for a reliable A to B car that's good on gas, the Yaris is an excellent choice.

Though I still can't wrap my head around this particular model... 

[ovr50]

Indeed.  This thread is about the Toyota Yaris, not some troller's viewpoint.

Honda Owner is looking to be banned.  His wish may come true.

IMO, that comment is biased and out-of-line.

[Honda Owner]

I sense a deep seated and, imo, relatively undeserved bias at work here.

I sensed the same thing and wondered why.

[articsteve]