Author Topic: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt  (Read 2872 times)

Offline toolatecrew

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Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« on: June 01, 2009, 07:01:34 am »
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General Motors Corp., the industrial giant that symbolized American manufacturing muscle for most of the 20th century, will file for bankruptcy protection today in a New York court.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1650063

Hopefully they emerage quickly so the repayment of all the loans taxpayers have extended them can be reapid.


Offline ovr50

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 10:03:09 am »
Just read the story in this AMs Globe&Mail.

There are lots of emotions involved in this, but truly, what is happening today is a big piece of automotive industry history. In the future, the year 2009 will be remembered as the year that 2 of the "Big3" entered into bankruptcy protection, with neither coming the end anywhere near the same as they were. GM was the world's largest car company for 77 of it's 100 years. Now, GM will be owned by US/Cdn govts, the unions and the bondholders. GM, as a company/investment is worthless.  :o :o

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Offline aquadorhj

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 12:35:58 pm »
Another notable fact about this Bankruptcy is,

TOP managements are to remain!!!   

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 12:40:48 pm »
It has been a long journey to this day, a journey of taking your customers for granted, assuming corporate welfare was a God given right, letting dealers fleece customers, building product that didn't suit the market and not listening to customers and dealers. I worked for GM for three years up to 2005 and I knew about the first week this company was going to go down to toilet. The reason was so simple: Nobody in the entire organisation gave two hoots about their customers. "If we build it, they will buy it, and if it doesn't sell, it isn't our fault" was the mantra at GM. Let's have a brief look at what caused GM to fail:

1968. GM decided to make cars on corporate platforms. The distinguisning character of each division is diluted with each new model.

1970. This theme is carried on with the Vega, probably the wost POS ever built. A Vega could never compete with a Corolla, but GM didn't take Toyota seriously.

1973. Energy Crisis One. GM caught with pants down. Needed a small, efficient car to compete with Toyota, which is now selling cars at levels thought impossible. Did we get it? Nope!

1980. Protected by import quotas, GM introduces the X Car, a total disaster, which was supposed to be their "import fighter."

1981. Next is the J Car, which was one of the worst car ever made and they even tried to sell a Cadillac version. To top that off, they sold the same car for TWENTY FOUR years!

1982-1986. The Great FWD shift. This was going to "Save GM (like the X and J cars)" and "Beat back the Imports." Except one size does not fit all. Consumers don't want a Sedan De Ville that looks like a Celebrity. Besides, the reliability of these cars was awful because GM cheapened them to make more profit per unit.

1990-2000. The Great SUV craze. Hey, gas was cheap and they could make good profits per unit. Why not neglect R&D on our bread and butter sedans and flog SUVs with cheap financing. GM turned into a defacto finance company, lending money to people who could not get loans at Honda and Toyota.

2000-2005. The Denial Phase. OK, GM made money but anyone working in the industry knew that sooner or later gas prices were going to spike and the Monstrosities GM was selling would tank. This was the time to really focus on new, small, efficient, high quality products. What did GM do? Paid execs huge bonuses and big dividends. Spent their R&D on new trucks and SUVs.

2005-Present. The final descent. Gas prices were spiking so GM was forced to discount their SUVs to absurd prices, give low interest financing and loan to sub-prime buyers. Also destroyed the resale of everybody who paid full price, so they would never buy GM again. It blew up in their faces. Then when it was obvious that radical surgery was needed but 2006, Red Ink Rick did nothing but collect his bonus cheques. Their salvation was going to be, get this, the new Camaro, a two ton wonder.

2009. So, after Hoovering HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF TAXPAYER dollars, GM is bust and still $170 BILLION in the hole.

So, GM apologists, there is no excuse for this. This company was mismanaged for forty years. They were arrogant and self absorbed. They saw their market share decline from 65% to 20%. They could not compete.

Am I angry? Yes, I am, because my tax dollars have gone to a totally incompetent organisation that should have died years ago. This company will die anyway because they do not have the money to design a product that can compete with Honda and Toyota in any way whatsoever.

Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 12:51:50 pm »
I share some of the anger over my tax dollars going to support GM. I studied a business case study on GM while taking MBA courses some 20 years ago. We predicted failure by GM because of many of the factors above (no one crystal balled it and got it 100% but the basics were dead on).

BUT trying to say the company will die anyways is simply not reasonable. "In for a penny in for a pound". The Governments are so heavily invested in this now that they simply cannot afford to allow the death of GM. They may have to hack of a leg or and arm but GM is no destined to have government life support practically forever. No way Government ever says "Yeah we poured 170 Billion in but now we'll shut it down and lose all the jobs and taxes etc etc." Not a chance. Once the government backstops something like this its almost impossible to get out because no administration could get selected if they were the ones to kill it even if its the right thing to do.

Offline safristi

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 12:52:56 pm »
No worries GM's new BOSS Prez Obama took 3 jets to New York Saturday fer a show and sandwich .......................didn't he villify the GM guys fer the same thing..............flying to DC fer a rip me a  "new ONE" meeting a few months ago..................so he's ON the JOB...shovelling the ready sh*t as we laugh at the MAD TV spectacle this has become..................maybe i'll take my next Tax refund check as a new Corvette,before that's DUMPED fer a Fiat 100(the 500's too big and thirsty!!!!!)....WDF is going on....$60 Billion in "loans" and tonight Obama is giving NBC a look at the white house with photo ops including a plane load of Journos going out fer a Burger.......was the Pizza chef flown in fer a movie  night not HOLLYWOOD enuf..!!???.....................we are facked folks..............PULL a T.A.R.P.. ;) :'( over us ALL...............
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 12:55:57 pm by safristi »
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Offline Juke1

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 01:18:34 pm »
It has been a long journey to this day, a journey of taking your customers for granted, assuming corporate welfare was a God given right, letting dealers fleece customers, building product that didn't suit the market and not listening to customers and dealers. I worked for GM for three years up to 2005 and I knew about the first week this company was going to go down to toilet. The reason was so simple: Nobody in the entire organisation gave two hoots about their customers. "If we build it, they will buy it, and if it doesn't sell, it isn't our fault" was the mantra at GM. Let's have a brief look at what caused GM to fail:

1968. GM decided to make cars on corporate platforms. The distinguisning character of each division is diluted with each new model.

1970. This theme is carried on with the Vega, probably the wost POS ever built. A Vega could never compete with a Corolla, but GM didn't take Toyota seriously.

1973. Energy Crisis One. GM caught with pants down. Needed a small, efficient car to compete with Toyota, which is now selling cars at levels thought impossible. Did we get it? Nope!

1980. Protected by import quotas, GM introduces the X Car, a total disaster, which was supposed to be their "import fighter."

1981. Next is the J Car, which was one of the worst car ever made and they even tried to sell a Cadillac version. To top that off, they sold the same car for TWENTY FOUR years!

1982-1986. The Great FWD shift. This was going to "Save GM (like the X and J cars)" and "Beat back the Imports." Except one size does not fit all. Consumers don't want a Sedan De Ville that looks like a Celebrity. Besides, the reliability of these cars was awful because GM cheapened them to make more profit per unit.

1990-2000. The Great SUV craze. Hey, gas was cheap and they could make good profits per unit. Why not neglect R&D on our bread and butter sedans and flog SUVs with cheap financing. GM turned into a defacto finance company, lending money to people who could not get loans at Honda and Toyota.

2000-2005. The Denial Phase. OK, GM made money but anyone working in the industry knew that sooner or later gas prices were going to spike and the Monstrosities GM was selling would tank. This was the time to really focus on new, small, efficient, high quality products. What did GM do? Paid execs huge bonuses and big dividends. Spent their R&D on new trucks and SUVs.

2005-Present. The final descent. Gas prices were spiking so GM was forced to discount their SUVs to absurd prices, give low interest financing and loan to sub-prime buyers. Also destroyed the resale of everybody who paid full price, so they would never buy GM again. It blew up in their faces. Then when it was obvious that radical surgery was needed but 2006, Red Ink Rick did nothing but collect his bonus cheques. Their salvation was going to be, get this, the new Camaro, a two ton wonder.

2009. So, after Hoovering HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF TAXPAYER dollars, GM is bust and still $170 BILLION in the hole.

So, GM apologists, there is no excuse for this. This company was mismanaged for forty years. They were arrogant and self absorbed. They saw their market share decline from 65% to 20%. They could not compete.

Am I angry? Yes, I am, because my tax dollars have gone to a totally incompetent organisation that should have died years ago. This company will die anyway because they do not have the money to design a product that can compete with Honda and Toyota in any way whatsoever.

This company will die anyway because they do not have the money to design a product that can compete with Honda and Toyota in any way whatsoever.

BS.  The new Malibu is as good as an Accord and better rated than Camry.  The upcoming Buick Allure is awesome.  Anyhow you're salivating the moment it's obvious and was expected.
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Offline Zombie

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 01:30:33 pm »
One questions how did Ford not have the same fate?
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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 01:32:43 pm »
BS.  The new Malibu is as good as an Accord and better rated than Camry.  The upcoming Buick Allure is awesome.  Anyhow you're salivating the moment it's obvious and was expected.

Agreed...however, public perception is deeply damaged and really has been for the last couple decades.  GM needs to get some Apple-calibre ads out to go with their improved product lineup.



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Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 01:50:29 pm »
One questions how did Ford not have the same fate?

YET ;-)

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 01:55:58 pm »
One questions how did Ford not have the same fate?

YET ;-)

They mortgaged everything before the credit markets tightened and have less brands and legacy costs (retirees and health care costs) crippling them.

They're largely benefiting on the UAW/CAW labour side from the agreements made with Chrysler and GM as well, without the hassles associated. 

Plus that Alan guy is pretty smart.


I don't know what products Chrysler has coming beside some Fiat rebadges and the '11 Grand Cherokee - you'd think they would share if there were any, but GM looks have a number of excellent product and engine technology in the pipeline on the way, which bodes well for them and should help restore a lot of market confidence.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 02:11:38 pm by sirAQUAMAN64 »
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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 02:08:15 pm »
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BS.  The new Malibu is as good as an Accord and better rated than Camry.  The upcoming Buick Allure is awesome.  Anyhow you're salivating the moment it's obvious and was expected.

Ahh, a GM apologist. Perhaps this is true but there are a few facts that remain.

1. The cars are too new for real reliability ratings

2. The car was designed by Opel, which is no longer part of GM.

3. GM is bust, bankrupt, kaputt, lives on corporate welfare.

4. I predicted this, but I didn't make it happen. GM's incompetence made it happen.

5. If I ran my company into the ground I couldn't like up for corporate welfare.

Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 03:23:50 pm »
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BS.  The new Malibu is as good as an Accord and better rated than Camry.  The upcoming Buick Allure is awesome.  Anyhow you're salivating the moment it's obvious and was expected.

Ahh, a GM apologist. Perhaps this is true but there are a few facts that remain.

1. The cars are too new for real reliability ratings

2. The car was designed by Opel, which is no longer part of GM.

3. GM is bust, bankrupt, kaputt, lives on corporate welfare.

4. I predicted this, but I didn't make it happen. GM's incompetence made it happen.

5. If I ran my company into the ground I couldn't like up for corporate welfare.

Most of what you say may be true. This is now all in the past. Can't be changed.

What will also not change is that GM will continue and that it will be your tax dollars and mine supporting it. Its not going away. The only thing we can do now is HOPE for their sucess going forward. We should be cheering for GM to do well now. Its done..over. We are stuck with it now. I'll be the first one to scream if they do something stupid going forward but there is no good dancing on their grave since we as taxpayers are now buried with them.

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 03:41:22 pm »
Yes, you make a really good point. I also hope that GM will come out with some innovative products that are market place hits. Where the R&D dollars are going to come from is another matter I suppose.

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2009, 04:06:19 pm »
Quote
BS.  The new Malibu is as good as an Accord and better rated than Camry.  The upcoming Buick Allure is awesome.  Anyhow you're salivating the moment it's obvious and was expected.

Ahh, a GM apologist. Perhaps this is true but there are a few facts that remain.

1. The cars are too new for real reliability ratings

2. The car was designed by Opel, which is no longer part of GM.

3. GM is bust, bankrupt, kaputt, lives on corporate welfare.

4. I predicted this, but I didn't make it happen. GM's incompetence made it happen.

5. If I ran my company into the ground I couldn't like up for corporate welfare.

Most of what you say may be true. This is now all in the past. Can't be changed.

What will also not change is that GM will continue and that it will be your tax dollars and mine supporting it. Its not going away. The only thing we can do now is HOPE for their sucess going forward. We should be cheering for GM to do well now. Its done..over. We are stuck with it now. I'll be the first one to scream if they do something stupid going forward but there is no good dancing on their grave since we as taxpayers are now buried with them.

Hmmm....ok, is this not similar or the same :think: as these foreign governments backing their manufacturers with exports, subsidizing?  I would have prefered to see these failures while they were producing junk, but at a time where they turned the corner is unfortunate, the hole was simply to deep.

HondaOwner:

I predicted this, but I didn't make it happen. GM's incompetence made it happen.

You kill me :rofl: Do you think that we're all stupid here and did not see this coming?


Offline rrocket

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2009, 05:20:22 pm »


HondaOwner:

I predicted this, but I didn't make it happen. GM's incompetence made it happen.

You kill me :rofl: Do you think that we're all stupid here and did not see this coming?



Not everyone is stupid and saw this coming...(or at least their heads were stuck in the sand)

Where's Steve?  It just doesn't feel right without him coming in and saying "See, I told you so!!"   :rofl2:
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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 05:27:11 pm »
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Where's Steve?  It just doesn't feel right without him coming in and saying "See, I told you so!!" 


Even more important is where is Barrie? Grieving in private?

Offline 99 Silver

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2009, 05:32:54 pm »
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2009, 05:49:51 pm »


2. The car was designed by Opel, which is no longer part of GM.



Owned by Magna Canada now, eh??

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Re: Its Official GM CHapter 11 Bankrupt
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 05:57:07 pm »


2. The car was designed by Opel, which is no longer part of GM.



Owned by Magna Canada now, eh??

My next car is a Magna Malibu 3500i, sounds good eh??