CTC Review: 2010 Honda Insight EX

[rrocket]

^^^^Some people even think it will be a MANDATORY feature.

Stop-and-start really should be a mandatory feature.  It's one of the best ways to reduce fuel consumption because it only targets wasteful and useless engine operation (there's no need for the engine to run if the car isn't moving, that's just a wasted of fuel) and the technology is really simple.(all you really need is a somewhat beefier starter and some ECU programming).

Oh I agree.  Back in the day with carbs....this may have been an issue.  But with how efficient cars are now....this would be an OK feature.

[Leviathan]

.(all you really need is a somewhat beefier starter and some ECU programming).

Mazda has a system that doesn't use the starter.

Mazda Develops UNIQUE Smart Idle Stop System Using Direct Injection Engine Technology

[dorin]

.(all you really need is a somewhat beefier starter and some ECU programming).

Mazda has a system that doesn't use the starter.

Mazda Develops UNIQUE Smart Idle Stop System Using Direct Injection Engine Technology

Even better!

[gord_boyd]

The ZDX targets people who want 'command position' seating with best ingress/egress to save wobbly knees--the old farts.  Insight is low.  Prius with 17 inch option wheels has more comfort
for empty nesters--this being a very large part of market for hybrids.

[articsteve]

Having driven both hybrid systems, I would pick the Honda over the Toyota, way more pleasant to drive.  Although similar, the Honda is nicer to my eyes. The Toyota lacks in transparency when switching back and forth, 1 hour of driving in Ottawa(Camry), stop and go, driveability is annoying like hell.

So you have had seat time in a 2010 Prius?  Snap any pics by chance?

[Juke1]

Having driven both hybrid systems, I would pick the Honda over the Toyota, way more pleasant to drive.  Although similar, the Honda is nicer to my eyes. The Toyota lacks in transparency when switching back and forth, 1 hour of driving in Ottawa(Camry), stop and go, driveability is annoying like hell.

So you have had seat time in a 2010 Prius?  Snap any pics by chance?

FFS can't you read?  1 hour of driving in Ottawa(Camry).  As for pics, forget it, both GOC cars so forget about that one.  In the end I was wondering how long it would take you to respond, trolling? maybe, is the bittin good? big time.

[articsteve]

I read that you where implying that the 2010 Prius's mechanical operation is identical to that of a Camry Hybrid.  That I suggest would be trolling. 

[johngenx]

Hybrids don't have a little electric starter motor to wear out like a "conventional" car.  The engine start/stop feature is used by having the large electrical motor begin movement and the gasoline engine is then "bump" started.  If the gas engine is warm, there would be little or no additional wear.  As rrocket pointed out, this feature has been long in use in urban environments in taxi cabs, and I can't imagine how many start/stop cycles those engines have gone through.

I don't think that the start/stop technology is fully flushed out yet for non-hybrids, but it looks like Mazda and perhaps others are onto something.  Perhaps we'll have elements of hybrid technology in every car sometime in the near future?  I have no problem with that.

Can you imagine on -40 winters day. say if you live in a heavy traffic area. You would be affectingly running the engine cold. How much fuel are you really saving if you are constant turn the engine on and off every minute or so. I wouldn't buy one that reason alone, unless I could switch that feature off.

As for inclement weather, hybrids already have programming so the the gasoline engine is kept running in cold weather to supply heat for the cabin and keep the gas engine from cooling down.  Why would that be precluded from use in other cars?  Perhaps a little homework on how existing systems work would have been in order.

[gord_boyd]

It is Sunday and feel like saying something controversial.
We all know Honda makes best small cars.  We all know
Mid East biggest export in terms of impact is wahabi-sect teachings of the Koran,
not oil.  Therefore how else could you halve your consumption of
oil than this and Prius.  There is a huge need to change and I'm trying
the best I can to drop previous habits.  I'm talking 1/2 the consumption
for same cost as my TL is worth selling.  And moving up 4 model years.
Honda has terrific value in the Insight.  The issue is beyond the rational
thinking--it is how to actually change our ways and the emotional impacts
of that change.  The comments that irritate me most is that Prius
owners like to show off their "green" behaviour.  These are the resistors
of change speaking.  It is almost like tribal thinking of of the Saudi Wahabis.
WE NEED TO CHANGE OURSELVES FIRST.

[MKII]

  I suspect it's the same with the Honda too.  I'd be more concerned with starter wear than absolute engine wear

Mazda UNIQUE Smart Idle Stop System
Conventional idling stop systems restart a vehicle's engine with an electric motor using exactly the same process as when the engine is started normally. Mazda's SISS, on the other hand, restarts the engine through combustion. Mazda's system initiates engine restart by injecting fuel directly into the cylinder while the engine is stopped, and igniting it to generate downward piston force.

In order to restart the engine by combustion, the pistons must be stopped at exactly the correct position to create the right balance of air volume in each cylinder. The Smart Idle Stop System provides precise control over the piston positions during engine shutdown to accomplish this. The SISS indexes each cylinder and initiates fuel injection before the engine begins to rotate. This enables the engine to be restarted in just 0.35 seconds*2, roughly half the time of a conventional electric motor idling stop system.
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/2008/200809/080909a.html

[tpl]

I am trying to detect the hidden meaning here Gord.

If one wants to be less reliant on mid east oil they we, Canada could easily build  a couple more upgraders and refineries for the Oil sands and be self sufficient for a 100 years or so.  If we did that then the only things we'd need want from the middle east as a whole would be carpets, dates and pistachio nuts.

if on the other hand we want to stop the export of wahabi teachings then that is a bit more difficult and Canada would have difficulty doing it on our own... but we could stop the import of such at our borders by bending the Charter a bit.

OTOH we could just carry on quietly and buy cars with smaller engines.

[tpl]

  I suspect it's the same with the Honda too.  I'd be more concerned with starter wear than absolute engine wear

Mazda UNIQUE Smart Idle Stop System
Conventional idling stop systems restart a vehicle's engine with an electric motor using exactly the same process as when the engine is started normally. Mazda's SISS, on the other hand, restarts the engine through combustion. Mazda's system initiates engine restart by injecting fuel directly into the cylinder while the engine is stopped, and igniting it to generate downward piston force.

In order to restart the engine by combustion, the pistons must be stopped at exactly the correct position to create the right balance of air volume in each cylinder. The Smart Idle Stop System provides precise control over the piston positions during engine shutdown to accomplish this. The SISS indexes each cylinder and initiates fuel injection before the engine begins to rotate. This enables the engine to be restarted in just 0.35 seconds*2, roughly half the time of a conventional electric motor idling stop system.
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/2008/200809/080909a.html

A long, long time ago, some Rolls Royce cars with combustion chamber in the piston top could be started this way sometimes.   A puddle of fuel might be left on a piston top and judicious wiggling of the manual advance/retard lever could spark in that cylinder.  Mazda's way  looks like a better way to do it.

[EV Dan]

Insight is the poor man Prius.  Get a Fit instead.

Yup.  If it's money you're hoping to save, even the Insight is priced far too high compared to it's gas-only econo siblings to be economically feasible.  And it seems that 4L/100km is only there by "hypermiling."  In real driving, it doesn't seem to offer drastic savings.  Our Corolla never breaks 7.5L/100km, often average less in all city driving, and can break into the 4's on the highway.

City driving is a subjective thing. In Toronto from light to light I easily go into double digits, with 'normal' diving style, that is trying not to keep everybody behind you and doing 70kph. It doesnt matter how small the engine is or how light the car is or what kind of transmission is in use. Acceleration and braking waste energy. Around 100% more in my own experience, as the best I got on a highway so far is 5.5L per 100 and that wasnt in ideal conditions.
Hybrid tech will come down in price if used widely. Car makers should offer vehicles that appeal to wider audience, not just greenies, that is full size sedans, CUVs and sport cars. They just dont have much time before pure electrics hit the road 

[safristi]

"don't have much time before PURE electrics hit the market". thus spake  Zarayanoff!!!...........ZzzzzAAAAPPPP... me wif a VOLTA meter.........better build 13 Nuke Plants to PAY fer ALL this GREENISHNESS free energy............last time i looked' electRons' weren't Acorn Obama supporters but Free radicals.................NOT.................

[rrocket]

It is Sunday and feel like saying something controversial.
We all know Honda makes best small cars.  We all know
Mid East biggest export in terms of impact is wahabi-sect teachings of the Koran,
not oil.  Therefore how else could you halve your consumption of
oil than this and Prius.  There is a huge need to change and I'm trying
the best I can to drop previous habits.  I'm talking 1/2 the consumption
for same cost as my TL is worth selling.  And moving up 4 model years.
Honda has terrific value in the Insight.  The issue is beyond the rational
thinking--it is how to actually change our ways and the emotional impacts
of that change.  The comments that irritate me most is that Prius
owners like to show off their "green" behaviour.  These are the resistors
of change speaking.  It is almost like tribal thinking of of the Saudi Wahabis.
WE NEED TO CHANGE OURSELVES FIRST.

A bit of a myth there...But the US buys more oil from Canada than it does the Middle East.....

[safristi]

isn't Ontario the middle EAST of Canada.......................where are U thou of early OIL fields.........................Oh read yer own History miscreants..................   I'm the shiek of  Petrolia yer Ford belong to ME.................

[Mitlov]

It is Sunday and feel like saying something controversial.
We all know Honda makes best small cars.  We all know
Mid East biggest export in terms of impact is wahabi-sect teachings of the Koran,
not oil.  Therefore how else could you halve your consumption of
oil than this and Prius.  There is a huge need to change and I'm trying
the best I can to drop previous habits.  I'm talking 1/2 the consumption
for same cost as my TL is worth selling.  And moving up 4 model years.
Honda has terrific value in the Insight.  The issue is beyond the rational
thinking--it is how to actually change our ways and the emotional impacts
of that change.  The comments that irritate me most is that Prius
owners like to show off their "green" behaviour.  These are the resistors
of change speaking.  It is almost like tribal thinking of of the Saudi Wahabis.
WE NEED TO CHANGE OURSELVES FIRST.

If your primary goal is to get off of petroleum for geopolitical reasons, the Insight is NOT the best answer.  A Jetta TDI running B99 biodiesel (only 1% petroleum-based) is the best answer.

However, if your goal is to make a bit of a difference without spending a lot of coin or worrying a lot, all of a sudden the Insight makes a lot more sense.  It may be smaller and have a less substantial feel, but it's cheaper to buy, much cheaper to refuel (unleaded gas is a lot cheaper than B99), much more convenient to refuel (unleaded gas is everywhere; you need to know where to look for B99), and there are fewer reliability question marks with the Insight (particularly given that VW apparently recommends B5 and now B20, but hasn't certified that its engines will run well long-term with B99.  Source.).

[Leviathan]

"don't have much time before PURE electrics hit the market". thus spake  Zarayanoff!!!...........ZzzzzAAAAPPPP... me wif a VOLTA meter.........better build 13 Nuke Plants to PAY fer ALL this GREENISHNESS free energy............last time i looked' electRons' weren't Acorn Obama supporters but Free radicals.................NOT.................

Electrics will, for the most part, be charged during the dead of night using power that would otherwise be "wasted". Further:

Chevy Volt and the Electric Grid: Drive 15,000 Miles for $73

Furthermore the electric grid has ample capacity to handle this car. In fact Mr. Duvall stated that 10 million E-REVs will use less than 1% of the US electric grids total capacity.

[johngenx]

A great deal of our current electrical generation capacity goes to ground during non-peak periods now.  We just need to ensure that the kVa of the residential system is not below the capacity of charging cars.

[dorin]

A great deal of our current electrical generation capacity goes to ground during non-peak periods now.  We just need to ensure that the kVa of the residential system is not below the capacity of charging cars.

Given that utilities are starting to install smart power meters and smart thermostats, all we need to do is ensure that car recharging stations are only installed where they can be controlled by a smart power meter.  It's very doable IMO.