CTC Review: 2010 Honda Insight EX

[Arf Wowee]

For those who are not "ancient" (I am ancient and remember the CRX well), the Insight looks like a copy of the Prius. This is nastier by virtue of the fact that the Insight is not close to being as good as the Prius in the capabilities department. Someone who buys the Insight may think he/she got a bargain hybrid but as the review shows, the Insight really isn't even close. I am really curious as to what Honda was thinking with this styling and also surprised that Toyota hasn't attacked them on it.

[carsncars]

Yes, the Insight looks like the Prius. Yes, part of this is probably intentional, because the Prius' shape screams "hybrid".

But part of the reason is that the kammback is a design that minimizes drag--with almost all the benefits of a teardrop shape. The Audi A2 and even the Citroen DS (and subsequently, CX) utilized the shape as well. It's logical.

[articsteve]

Insight is the poor man Prius.  Get a Fit instead.

The Bottom Line

Selecting a winner didn't come down to which car returned the best fuel economy. But the car we all wanted to take home at the end of the day was also the thriftiest with fuel. The Insight delivered 40.9 mpg, a solid number considering how hard we drove these cars. But the Prius returned an amazing 45.8. Sure, the Toyota costs more, but it's also worth the money.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4309705.html

[johngenx]

Insight is the poor man Prius.  Get a Fit instead.

Yup.  If it's money you're hoping to save, even the Insight is priced far too high compared to it's gas-only econo siblings to be economically feasible.  And it seems that 4L/100km is only there by "hypermiling."  In real driving, it doesn't seem to offer drastic savings.  Our Corolla never breaks 7.5L/100km, often average less in all city driving, and can break into the 4's on the highway.

[wing]

Just wanted to clarify incase anyone is incorrectly interpreting what I said about the engine having to run.  Yes you can drive the Insight on battery power alone but you must be carrying enough speed for the engine to keep spinning.  The engine won't use fuel as it uses the momentum of the car to keep reciprocating.  This only happens at 40-60km per hour.

From a stop the engine must be running.  Even more annoying is that the engine starts when you put the car In park.

[rrocket]

Yup.  If it's money you're hoping to save, even the Insight is priced far too high compared to it's gas-only econo siblings to be economically feasible.  And it seems that 4L/100km is only there by "hypermiling."  In real driving, it doesn't seem to offer drastic savings.  Our Corolla never breaks 7.5L/100km, often average less in all city driving, and can break into the 4's on the highway.

Yup....my POS Echo got 5.24L/100km the last tank.....

[Threader]

Come people, if you were truly into lowest cost per 100kms for a new car purchase you be driving a $10,000 bare bones hyundai accent. truly green drive fuel efficient used cars that don't add to new cars on the road which a used hybrid would qualify for.

[Mitlov]

Yes, the Insight looks like the Prius. Yes, part of this is probably intentional, because the Prius' shape screams "hybrid".

But part of the reason is that the kammback is a design that minimizes drag--with almost all the benefits of a teardrop shape. The Audi A2 and even the Citroen DS (and subsequently, CX) utilized the shape as well. It's logical.

Yes.  It's been around since the 1930s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammback

The Insight and the Prius have similar silhouettes because their shape is dictated by the same function, not style (in this case, aerodynamics).  It's the same reason that a Corvette and a Viper have a similar silhouette.  Except for surface detailing, all of those cars are form dictating function.

[Juke1]

Having driven both hybrid systems, I would pick the Honda over the Toyota, way more pleasant to drive.  Although similar, the Honda is nicer to my eyes. The Toyota lacks in transparency when switching back and forth, 1 hour of driving in Ottawa(Camry), stop and go, driveability is annoying like hell.

[gord_boyd]

Over 60% of energy consumed on Highways is to move the air.  It turns out (even in F1 diffuser
development this year) that significant concentration should be on rear in aerodynamics fine tuning
and the lip which we see in the hulls of Volvo Around-the-world Racing Yachts
is what is emphasized.  You will notice new ZDX to be built by Honda in Alliston
will have stunning improved l/100kms numbers vs. say Pilot.  You just have to
put up with reduced space.  We all do. 

[tpl]

Over 60% of energy consumed on Highways is to move the air.  It turns out (even in F1 diffuser
development this year) that significant concentration should be on rear in aerodynamics fine tuning
and the lip which we see in the hulls of Volvo Around-the-world Racing Yachts
is what is emphasized.  You will notice new ZDX to be built by Honda in Alliston
will have stunning improved l/100kms numbers vs. say Pilot.  You just have to
put up with reduced space.  We all do. 

yes indeed but.   With car aero you also have to watch out for instabilities caused by getting the front and sides wrong.   I will try to find a reference but IIRC the UK Ford Sierra ( Merkur Xr4) could get very frightening at certain speeds when suddenly subjected to a side wind... like passing a truck for instance. I don't recall what they did to solve the problem... small spoilers by the rear windows were mentioned.
F1 cars of course are the ultimate in unstable cars and countless $$ are spent trying to improve that.

[Cortina]

The engine will turn off automatically when you come to a stop and will restart

I really dislike stop and start engines. You have to wonder how much damage does that do to the engine over 5-10 year period. Can you imagine on -40 winters day. say if you live in a heavy traffic area. You would be affectingly running the engine cold. How much fuel are you really saving if you are constant turn the engine on and off every minute or so. I wouldn't buy one that reason alone, unless I could switch that feature off.


At the end of the day you just can't beat a Diesel.

[rrocket]

F1 cars of course are the ultimate in unstable cars and countless $$ are spent trying to improve that.

I've been to the SAE Motorsport conference a couple of times. They have engineers there from most motorsports...F1, MotoGP, NASCAR, etc..  Anyways, the one year I was there, an F1 engineer told me that they have to develop special paint/coatings for components on the front of the car because MATERIAL/PAINT CHIPS could cause turbulence/drag.  I still find this hard to believe...but that's what he said....

[Mitlov]

Over 60% of energy consumed on Highways is to move the air.  It turns out (even in F1 diffuser
development this year) that significant concentration should be on rear in aerodynamics fine tuning
and the lip which we see in the hulls of Volvo Around-the-world Racing Yachts
is what is emphasized.  You will notice new ZDX to be built by Honda in Alliston
will have stunning improved l/100kms numbers vs. say Pilot.  You just have to
put up with reduced space.  We all do. 

I'll bet you the ZDX could be even more aerodynamic if it wasn't a CROSSOVER.  I'm pretty darned certain you'd get more useable space AND better fuel economy from a TL.  Can the TL seat four?  Yes, with better rear headroom than a "four-door coupe."  Can you fit more cargo space in the ZDX's shortened cargo area than you can in a TL trunk?  I doubt it.

As for the Pilot, that thing has the aerodynamics of a brick, so it's not a good comparison.  

[dorin]

The engine will turn off automatically when you come to a stop and will restart

I really dislike stop and start engines. You have to wonder how much damage does that do to engine over 5-10 year period. Can you imagine on -40 winters day. say if you live in a heavy traffic area. You would be affectingly running the engine cold. How much fuel are you really saving if you are constant turn the engine on and off every minute or so. I wouldn't buy one that reason alone, unless I could switch that feature off.

At the end of the day you just can't beat a Diesel.

I think start-and-stop engines are one of the best ideas.  Keep in mind that modern engines don't need to "warm up" nearly as much as people think.  I'm also sure that it's possible to tweak the electronics so the start-and-stop feature only activates once a minimum safe engine temperature has been reached.

Given that start-and-stop is a fairly simple feature that targets truly wasteful engine operation (i.e. idling in traffic), I see absolutely no reason why it should not be universal.  It would also have the very desirable effect of stopping those jerks who sit in their cars idling with the heat/air conditioning on for ever and ever while they're "just" waiting.

[dorin]

I'll bet you the ZDX could be even more aerodynamic if it wasn't a CROSSOVER.  I'm pretty darned certain you'd get more useable space AND better fuel economy from a TL.  Can the TL seat four?  Yes, with better rear headroom than a "four-door coupe."  Can you fit more cargo space in the ZDX's shortened cargo area than you can in a TL trunk?  I doubt it.

As for the Pilot, that thing has the aerodynamics of a brick, so it's not a good comparison.  

I agree with you that it's dumb for the ZDX to be a crossover.  According to the latest [a]Automobile[/i] though the ZDX's cargo hold is larger than the TL's.

[rrocket]

The engine will turn off automatically when you come to a stop and will restart

I really dislike stop and start engines. You have to wonder how much damage does that do to the engine over 5-10 year period. Can you imagine on -40 winters day. say if you live in a heavy traffic area. You would be affectingly running the engine cold. How much fuel are you really saving if you are constant turn the engine on and off every minute or so. I wouldn't buy one that reason alone, unless I could switch that feature off.


At the end of the day you just can't beat a Diesel.

It doesn't.  The engines are engineered to do this.  The cabs in use in Vancouver go 400,000kms before Toyota "reclaims" them for study.  There have been no reported engine failures for the stop/re-start...imagine how many times a cab with 400,000kms on them do this routine?  I suspect it's the same with the Honda too.  I'd be more concerned with starter wear than absolute engine wear....and as far as the winter goes, the engine oil would be warm already.  It's not like the oil will cool down enough in one minute to adversely affect wear...

Some people in the industry believe that ALL cars will eventually have this start/stop technology...

[Cortina]

Given that start-and-stop is a fairly simple feature that targets truly wasteful engine operation (i.e. idling in traffic), I see absolutely no reason why it should not be

I can see your point. But I think it would be a lot better if the engine turn off after 10 minutes. 

Some people in the industry believe that ALL cars will eventually have this start/stop technology...

Lets hope not. 

[rrocket]

^^^^Some people even think it will be a MANDATORY feature.

[dorin]

^^^^Some people even think it will be a MANDATORY feature.

Stop-and-start really should be a mandatory feature.  It's one of the best ways to reduce fuel consumption because it only targets wasteful and useless engine operation (there's no need for the engine to run if the car isn't moving, that's just a wasted of fuel) and the technology is really simple.(all you really need is a somewhat beefier starter and some ECU programming).