Topic: Interesting numbers

[toolatecrew]

It does make sense to me that if you DO sell a substantial number of a certain model in Canada and you ARE going to manufacture cars in Canada that you select a model that has high Canadian sales volume. Example Civic and Corolla are both built here. Mazda 3 is more sucessful (share wise) in Canada than US. So if Mazda were to build cars here it might make some sense to build 3s. But in the end Canada is such a small % of total market that it probaly doesn't matter.

I do wonder if once this crisis is over if its only a matter of time before Honda or Toyota start asking the Canadian government what they are going to do for THEM or even Ford for that matter.

You know ford will expect no less than the same deal from CAW as GM and Chrysler get. If you were ford wouldn't you expect no less from the Government than what the other guys got?

[johngenx]

And that is why we should not be handing out money.  Debt, equity, whatever, but no handouts.  Sure we want to save those jobs, but not with no-strings attached dough.  You must give up something, and that way we don't penalize the prudent and successful companies like Toyota and Honda.

[articsteve]

If I was filthy rich I wouldn't be typing this note from my office today.

 


However, this forum is tops for avoiding mundane tasks.

[sailor723]

Yep....It's almost dark here and I didn't get around to the lawn.

[Erik]

US based firms are not Canadian.  We should have no loyalty towards The Big Three.  Canada has no domestic automakers, and the original AutoPact was about providing high value manufacturing jobs to Canadians.  We should understand that goal, and stick with it.

No, the original auto pact was created to throw us a bone after we lost the trade/economic war with the US in the early weeks of Pearson government. At that time we became economically and militarily a US protectorate. As our economy became integrated with the US economy (if I remember the data from one member, the statistics showed that something like 60% of all Canadian manufacturing shipment for all industries goes to the US. Will look that up and provide a like to substantiate.), it became important to keep a manufacturing base of some kind in Canada. The economic well being of Canada was a vital strategic interest to the US.
As the largest part of the American empire, we have done incredibly well over the past few generations.

Edit: Per Dorin:

The latest year for which stats are available for both manufacturing output and exports is 2006 when Canada's manufacturing shipment for all industries was $596,429,000,000 and our exports to the US were $359,135,000,000 or 60.2%.

[Erik]

I do wonder if once this crisis is over if its only a matter of time before Honda or Toyota start asking the Canadian government what they are going to do for THEM or even Ford for that matter.

Well, they actually got money from governments for setting up shop here. That means, the Ontario and Federal governments paid money for jobs here. Likely, as they have a government bank specifically for this, the Japanese government also gave money to set up jobs here. Did they do it out of love for Canadians? Likely. I am sure the fact that they have made billions of dollars in profits had no bearing on it.

[Erik]

Makes you wonder how much additional Toyota or Honda production we might have here if we'd offered them billions?....

Or maybe a brand new Hyundai or Nissan plant?

The American Century is over.  Bushism sealed it.  Time to move on.  Throwing $$ at GM Canada and particularly Chrysler is such a loser.  Eventually, GM and Fiat will pull out of Canada when the FEDS finally can no longer politically pour money down the drain while other industries tank.

Scary thought for Canada, as we are totally tied to the US economically. Didn't I read somewhere that 90% of our vehicles produced here end up in the US anyway? So again, we are tied to the US.

[toolatecrew]

I do wonder if once this crisis is over if its only a matter of time before Honda or Toyota start asking the Canadian government what they are going to do for THEM or even Ford for that matter.

Well, they actually got money from governments for setting up shop here. That means, the Ontario and Federal governments paid money for jobs here. Likely, as they have a government bank specifically for this, the Japanese government also gave money to set up jobs here. Did they do it out of love for Canadians? Likely. I am sure the fact that they have made billions of dollars in profits had no bearing on it.

But have they gotten proportionate money from the Canadian government ? Its not a question of did they get ANY money but whether they get EQUAL money.

Whether they got money from their own Government is not relevant. The Big 3 got money from their government. Chrysler and GM are getting Billionsfrom the US government. Plus Billions from the Canadian government.

Ford could rightly ask "where is mine"? As could Toyota or Honda.

[mmret]

Ford could rightly ask "where is mine"? As could Toyota or Honda.

This would only serve to highlight the failure of our societies.

[toolatecrew]

I do wonder if once this crisis is over if its only a matter of time before Honda or Toyota start asking the Canadian government what they are going to do for THEM or even Ford for that matter.

Well, they actually got money from governments for setting up shop here. That means, the Ontario and Federal governments paid money for jobs here. Likely, as they have a government bank specifically for this, the Japanese government also gave money to set up jobs here. Did they do it out of love for Canadians? Likely. I am sure the fact that they have made billions of dollars in profits had no bearing on it.

Canadian and U.S. governments aren't likely to recover much, if any, of several billion dollars in bankruptcy loans to Chrysler LLC, an adviser to the embattled auto maker conceded Monday.

Robert Manzo, an executive director with Capstone Advisory Group, told a Manhattan courtroom that there is a “low likelihood” the so-called debtor-in-possession financing would be repaid,

http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090504.wrautoschrysler0505/BNStory/Business/home

GIVING Billions to Chrysler so they can go bankrupt and not pay suppliers,cut dealeras,close plants and further slash the workforce and we'll never see a cent of it back.

If I'm Honda,Toyota or Ford maybe I should start slashing jobs so I can get a "loan" that isn't expected to be repaid. See if I'm profitable ,keep my factories open and don't fire people I don't qualify.

[articsteve]

The CIRCUS continues .....

OTTAWA — Finance Minister Jim Flaherty conceded Tuesday that there's a chance the government's loans to Chrysler LLC will never be repaid, although he stressed that the company's planned merger with Italy's Fiat SpA stands a “reasonable” chance of success.

Mr. Flaherty, attending a news conference arranged to promote the government's tax-free savings accounts, was forced to respond to comments made by an adviser to Chrysler in a New York bankruptcy court Monday.

Robert Manzo, an executive director at Capstone Advisory Group, told the Manhattan courtroom that there is a “low likelihood” that Chrysler will repay the “debtor-in-possession” financing put up by governments in the United States and Canada because it is subordinate to almost $7-billion (U.S.) in Chrysler debt held by banks, hedge funds and other creditors.

The Canadian and Ontario governments combined for $1.45-billion in emergency loans for Chrysler.

[toolatecrew]

The CIRCUS continues .....

OTTAWA — Finance Minister Jim Flaherty conceded Tuesday that there's a chance the government's loans to Chrysler LLC will never be repaid, although he stressed that the company's planned merger with Italy's Fiat SpA stands a “reasonable” chance of success.

Mr. Flaherty, attending a news conference arranged to promote the government's tax-free savings accounts, was forced to respond to comments made by an adviser to Chrysler in a New York bankruptcy court Monday.

Robert Manzo, an executive director at Capstone Advisory Group, told the Manhattan courtroom that there is a “low likelihood” that Chrysler will repay the “debtor-in-possession” financing put up by governments in the United States and Canada because it is subordinate to almost $7-billion (U.S.) in Chrysler debt held by banks, hedge funds and other creditors.

The Canadian and Ontario governments combined for $1.45-billion in emergency loans for Chrysler.

Ha Flarety says There is a "CHANCE" the loans won't be repaid?

Canadian and U.S. governments aren't likely to recover much, if any, of several billion dollars in bankruptcy loans to Chrysler LLC, an adviser to the embattled auto maker conceded Monday.

An advisor to Chrysler says is isn't LIKLEY they will be repaid. Does sound like a very good "chance" to me. Nice spin Flharety

[tpl]

if the loans are not likely to be repaid then the money should be taken back immediately before it is spent.   As someone said in another thread.  Those loan $$ would provide lifetime income for the Chrysler workers and go some way towards keeping the GM pensions.

[toolatecrew]

if the loans are not likely to be repaid then the money should be taken back immediately before it is spent.   As someone said in another thread.  Those loan $$ would provide lifetime income for the Chrysler workers and go some way towards keeping the GM pensions.

I agree that they should loan them money if its likley not to be paid back.

I often have used the example of how the Billions add up to far more than the income of the people that would be unemployed. BUT can you imagine the backlash if the Government decided to say see you later to Chrysler and GM and then gave their employees 100K a year plus pension to not work  when 100s of thousands of other Canadinas are waiting for their $500 a week EI that runs out in less than a year?

They won't lend money to the Forestry industry becuase it represnts bias? What does the US Government leniding billions to GM and Chrysler and haveing an OWNERSHIP positon represnet? Impartiality?

If the US said anything about softwood lumber I'd tell them shove up their azz after their past actions .

[toolatecrew]

Georgia has promised something like 400 M in tax incentives and grants to Kia to set up a factory in West Point Georgia. The plant is still months away from opening but the recession has beasically been wiped out in this area.

The linked articale shows projected employment due to the pant (not just direect workers but suppliers etc) to be 20000 jobs.Direct jobs at the plant are about $2500 The economic impact to Georgia is projected at about $4 billion per year.

Too bad Canada couldn't have thwon 450Million dollars at them instead of BILLIONS at Chrysler which will never be rapaid and who will CUT jobs.  http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/Small_Georgia_Town_Gets_Big_Carmaker_042809

[barrie1]

The CAW offered Ford the same deal weeks ago after the talks with both GM and Chrysler.  They have not asked for it at all as yet but can anytime they wish. The GM pension money find is only short about 2.5 billion which is a lot less then what the companies are asking for to keep operating as well. But lets blame the CAW for the whole crisis as some of you have all along since it happened. 

[ovr50]

The CAW offered Ford the same deal weeks ago after the talks with both GM and Chrysler.  They have not asked for it at all as yet but can anytime they wish. The GM pension money find is only short about 2.5 billion which is a lot less then what the companies are asking for to keep operating as well. But lets blame the CAW for the whole crisis as some of you have all along since it happened. 

Globe&Mail ROB page 1 story headed up "Pension dificit threatens GM's viability"; and I quote:

"General Motors of Canada Ltd faces a pension shortfall of more than $7 billion, a gap which poses a major obstacle to a cost-cutting deal with the CAW union,....."

I think the deadline for a deal at GM is June 1. Autoextremist.com feels that GM (in US) will enter bankruptcy, see attached:

http://www.autoextremist.com/

[safristi]

"chance" USED TO BE A random throw of the dice in Monopoly (prolly still is)..so why am i throwing DICE with MY TAXES....................


   (1)...McSquinty has me by the balls?

   (2).. McSquinty likes Monopoly..?

    (3) Mc Squinty has a monopoly on balls..?

[toolatecrew]

The CAW offered Ford the same deal weeks ago after the talks with both GM and Chrysler.  They have not asked for it at all as yet but can anytime they wish. The GM pension money find is only short about 2.5 billion which is a lot less then what the companies are asking for to keep operating as well. But lets blame the CAW for the whole crisis as some of you have all along since it happened. 

Globe&Mail ROB page 1 story headed up "Pension dificit threatens GM's viability"; and I quote:

"General Motors of Canada Ltd faces a pension shortfall of more than $7 billion, a gap which poses a major obstacle to a cost-cutting deal with the CAW union,....."

I think the deadline for a deal at GM is June 1. Autoextremist.com feels that GM (in US) will enter bankruptcy, see attached:

http://www.autoextremist.com/

Lets not cloud the issue with facts that have a link to back them up now.