CTC Review: 2009 Infiniti G37x Sedan

[vdk]

vdk

Yes, Volvos are still decent cars, but a far cry from what they once were in terms or reliability and longevity.  They just don't do anything that well or that poorly.  People's tastes have evolved from wanting much more than just a really safe, durable car and Volvo really has not kept up with the times thanks to the lameduck stewardship of Ford.  Not bad cars, but so many better choices.  Volvo has no identity.

I think Volvo doesn't want to play the game (of look at me) other premium brands are playing. They're more sedate in a way without the 'look at me I'm rich' design. You know what I mean?

I find Volvos tres chique but that might be just me. A premium brand without non-sense.

[williewonka]

the guy had to go put a big pic of that clock in day 2 review........

[Jaeger]

From the article, Day 2:

"Infiniti certainly has come a long way with its interior designs and materials quality. This new G37 is top level from where I sit, and is head-to-head competitive with the leaders of the pack — and I just spent a good month fondling interiors from Audi and BMW."

Given some of the grousing that still persists about the supposedly "low rent" interior of the G, I was looking forward to your take on same - particularly since you have recent experience with the accepted class leaders.  Honestly, I think a lot of the grousing comes from people who have never actually sat in the current model.  In my opinion, no apologies whatsoever need be made for the interior of the G37 - either from the standpoints of design, fit or quality of materials.  It's a nice place to be.

Jaeger

[Oz]

Given some of the grousing that still persists about the supposedly "low rent" interior of the G, I was looking forward to your take on same - particularly since you have recent experience with the accepted class leaders.  Honestly, I think a lot of the grousing comes from people who have never actually sat in the current model.  In my opinion, no apologies whatsoever need be made for the interior of the G37 - either from the standpoints of design, fit or quality of materials.  It's a nice place to be.

I don't disagree with the assessment that interior materials quality is very competetive. I'd rather have a baseish G than a Genesis sedan any day of the week.

However, I test drove both the G37 sedan and coupe before I bought my car, have been a passenger in the former several times - the dash just doesn't do it for me compared to the offerings from Germany...

[Juke1]

From the article, Day 2:

"Infiniti certainly has come a long way with its interior designs and materials quality. This new G37 is top level from where I sit, and is head-to-head competitive with the leaders of the pack — and I just spent a good month fondling interiors from Audi and BMW."

Given some of the grousing that still persists about the supposedly "low rent" interior of the G, I was looking forward to your take on same - particularly since you have recent experience with the accepted class leaders.  Honestly, I think a lot of the grousing comes from people who have never actually sat in the current model.  In my opinion, no apologies whatsoever need be made for the interior of the G37 - either from the standpoints of design, fit or quality of materials.  It's a nice place to be.

Jaeger

Agree, same for the Altima, everyone passes judgement based on the 02 interior.  It's day and night and now class leading IMO.

[Spec5]

I'll second that - I test drove an Altima this fall with the mother-in-law. She really wanted the Alty but ended up going with the Sentra this time around. The interior is nothing like that of the previous gen Alty. Having said that I think the Malibu's interior is nicer - they pull of the two tone VERY nicely.

[Juke1]

I'll second that - I test drove an Altima this fall with the mother-in-law. She really wanted the Alty but ended up going with the Sentra this time around. The interior is nothing like that of the previous gen Alty. Having said that I think the Malibu's interior is nicer - they pull of the two tone VERY nicely.

The Malibu interior is very nice and I like that car a lot, the only difference in comparison is this design(two tone)may not age well.  Where the Altima's more quiet approach may endure the test of time better, IMO.  Soft touch everywhere, every button in the right place, no silly complexities wins with me.

[Jaeger]

Okay, so I read the C/D comparison test.

The G37, in their words, not mine, "shamed" the BMW in every measured performance test except skidpad, where it tied.  Not just talking acceleration, here (which is to be expected, with nearly 100 more ponies), but braking and lane-change as well (though a 1 foot shorter stop is hardly "shaming" the BMW).

Noteworthy fact - the last comparo ranked the 328i ahead of the G35 by 15 points.  This one saw the BMW win by only 2 hanging chads over the substantially improved G37.  C/D described the victory as "sliver thin".  The Audi and TL were distant runners-up by comparison.

They essentially picked the BWM as the overall winner on what they admitted were purely subjective grounds. Not saying that this is an invalid basis - in fact, it's about the only way to separate close contenders - but subjective preferences will vary.  When it's this close a call, it is no less valid for someone to assert that the G is "better" based on THEIR subjective preferences.

Of course, there are those that will tell you that asking BWM to pick the best sports sedan from a field including a BMW is like asking the Pope to pick the best religion from choices that include Catholocism.  But at least I have to give the mag credit for coming clean on the subjectivity of their ultimate findings.

My take - I don't think C/D is biased in favor of BMW, but rather, they have come to regard the 3 series as not merely possessing some of the best attributes in a sports sedan, but defining them.  From that starting point, to the extent that a competitor is unlike the BWM, it is by definition inferior to it.  Thus, BWM will always reign supreme.  Though it is clear from this review that the G37 came as close as any car ever has to shaking the foundations of that paradigm.

And it provides a rather comprehensive rebuttal to AudiLover's absurd drivel.  Not that such was really needed.

Jaeger

[mmret]

The "problem", if you can call it that, is that Infiniti set out to build their take on the 3 Series. 99% of people will be completely unable to tell the difference in performance between a G37 and a 335i. The wannabe can never surpass the real deal (maybe that's why Mitlov etc. say that the G just doesn't have "it") - on the other hand, maybe the G37 just needs to be its own car.

[johngenx]

Saw an ad today for a 2009 G37X, new, for $39K.  That is real value in the entry-level luxury sports sedan market.  As much as I like the BMW, I'd have to save the substantial money and go for the Infinity.  Big power, nice interior (stop looking at pics of the 2003 model, ferchrissakes, the 09 is great), decent exterior looks, proven reliability, and AWD.

[Mitlov]

The "problem", if you can call it that, is that Infiniti set out to build their take on the 3 Series. 99% of people will be completely unable to tell the difference in performance between a G37 and a 335i. The wannabe can never surpass the real deal (maybe that's why Mitlov etc. say that the G just doesn't have "it") - on the other hand, maybe the G37 just needs to be its own car.

I've been thinking about why I can't get that emotional connection to the G, and that's a big part of it. 

First off, Jaeger, it's not just a matter of not driving it yet.  There are some cars that I love before I've ever driven, and some that I respect but I don't feel any pull toward.  And it's not a German car thing...the 370Z has the "it factor" for me in spades, whereas the G doesn't have it at all.  But yes, I had that "character" feel for the 3-Series and C-Class before I ever took their wheel (and I have it for the A4 though I've never driven one), whereas somehow the Infiniti just lacks that for me.

A big part of it is that the G feels very derivative.  IIt doesn't feel like its own car somehow.  That doesn't mean it can't be as objectively good as the 3-Series, or even better.  The Suzuki SV650 that I've owned since 2002 and that's in my profile picture?  Honestly, it's vastly superior to a similarly-priced base-engined Ducati Monster by any objective measure, and yet somehow the Ducati Monster still has a coolness about it that the Suzuki lacks in my mind.

Another thing that bothers me is that some of the things they've done to the G to make it "feel Japanese" just feel incredibly contrived to me.  A grill that, according to its designer, is inspired by the curve of a katana?  Rice-paper-textured aluminum trim?  It all just feels a bit forced.  And the funny thing is, despite all those "we're so Japanese" touches, the G doesn't have the inherently Japanese aura to it, in my mind.

Finally, and once again it's all completely subjective, but I think it's bulbous and ugly outside and generic inside.  It doesn't have a low-quality interior like the first-gen, but it's just that the aesthetic design really clashes with my personal tastes.

So that's why it doesn't have the "it factor" for me.  And the first of the three things--the derivative feel that permeates the equally-awesome SV650--is the biggest thing for me.

[Jaeger]

Another thing that bothers me is that some of the things they've done to the G to make it "feel Japanese" just feel incredibly contrived to me.  A grill that, according to its designer, is inspired by the curve of a katana?  Rice-paper-textured aluminum trim?  It all just feels a bit forced.  And the funny thing is, despite all those "we're so Japanese" touches, the G doesn't have the inherently Japanese aura to it, in my mind.

First of all - if a car doesn't do it for, it doesn't do it for you.  Obviously, the driving experience plays a greater role in the emotional attachment for me than it does for you.  Which is fine.  And I sure wouldn't spend money on a car I thought was ugly, much less premium sedan money.

What I don't understand is criticising Inifiniti's use of overtly "Japanese" design themes in the car.  Elements such as the katana and rice paper may have no evocative appeal for you, but obviously are strong cultural elements in the country of manufacture.  How often is the term "Teutonic" used to describe BMW products?  It is used in a universally positive fashion.  You get that "Teutonic" essentially means "Germanic", right?  So why is it a positive for a German car to be German, but less than positive for a Japanese car to be Japanese?  Or let me put it to you this way - you say that despite these "contrived" efforts, the G isn't very Japanese.  So in what way could they be "more" Japanese but less "contrived", in your opinion?

Your point about the grille and dash really does strike me as nitpicking.  Regardless of the "design inspiration" I think both look good - particularly the unique brushed finish on the aluminum dash plates.  I find that attractive to my eye, even though for me it is not the least bit culturally evocative.

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

The "problem", if you can call it that, is that Infiniti set out to build their take on the 3 Series. 99% of people will be completely unable to tell the difference in performance between a G37 and a 335i. The wannabe can never surpass the real deal (maybe that's why Mitlov etc. say that the G just doesn't have "it") - on the other hand, maybe the G37 just needs to be its own car.

The way I see it is that Inifiniti is targeting the BMW 3 series in terms of what it represents: the pinnacle of the sports sedan hierarchy.  But they are not trying to build a 3 series.  They seek to ascend to those heights by building their own representation of a premium sports sedan.  The problem they have is something of a cath-22.  To the extent that they are different from BMW, in the eyes of some, they are by definition less than BMW.  To the extent that they try to be "Japanese", in the eyes of some, they are being "contrived".  And of course, to the extent that they are similar to BMW, in the eyes of some, they are being "derivative".

Kind of a tough deal, but nobody said life was fair.  In my opinion, assesed on its own merits, the G represents a terrific sports sedan and offers one heck of a strong value in the segment.  A "baseish" G might well be in the cross-hairs for my next car.  There's a LOT of goodness there for under $40k.  I just wish you could get the stick with the base model.

Jaeger

[safristi]

..some say sushi some say schnitzel.................................it's the person payin' tha TAB calls the restaurant.................."katana" isn't that where wing lives..................Mmmmm wings...now there's a tho't......................doesn't Chrysler have "wings" on their emblem.......................

[Mitlov]

Another thing that bothers me is that some of the things they've done to the G to make it "feel Japanese" just feel incredibly contrived to me.  A grill that, according to its designer, is inspired by the curve of a katana?  Rice-paper-textured aluminum trim?  It all just feels a bit forced.  And the funny thing is, despite all those "we're so Japanese" touches, the G doesn't have the inherently Japanese aura to it, in my mind.

First of all - if a car doesn't do it for, it doesn't do it for you.  Obviously, the driving experience plays a greater role in the emotional attachment for me than it does for you.  Which is fine.  And I sure wouldn't spend money on a car I thought was ugly, much less premium sedan money.

What I don't understand is criticising Inifiniti's use of overtly "Japanese" design themes in the car.  Elements such as the katana and rice paper may have no evocative appeal for you, but obviously are strong cultural elements in the country of manufacture.  How often is the term "Teutonic" used to describe BMW products?  It is used in a universally positive fashion.  You get that "Teutonic" essentially means "Germanic", right?  So why is it a positive for a German car to be German, but less than positive for a Japanese car to be Japanese?  Or let me put it to you this way - you say that despite these "contrived" efforts, the G isn't very Japanese.  So in what way could they be "more" Japanese but less "contrived", in your opinion?

Your point about the grille and dash really does strike me as nitpicking.  Regardless of the "design inspiration" I think both look good - particularly the unique brushed finish on the aluminum dash plates.  I find that attractive to my eye, even though for me it is not the least bit culturally evocative.
...
To the extent that they try to be "Japanese", in the eyes of some, they are being "contrived".

I don't think I made myself clear.  I've got no problem with a design that "feels Japanese."  The first-generation Acura TSX struck me as quintessentially Japanese in design, inside and out--and I loved that car (and possibly would have bought it if I didn't have a kid and bought that damn Subaru).  The Mazda RX-8 is another car that strikes me as quintessentially Japanese in design, inside and out, and I was debating buying one of those when the deal on the Jetta fell into my lap.

The problem with the G37, from a design perspective (in my opinion), is NOT that it's Japanese.  It's that it's a very un-Japanese design with very contrived "I'm sooooooo Japanese" details tacked on.  It's like doing "Scandinavian design" by taking a Corolla and welding a horned helmet to the roof and printing a chain mail motif on the dashboard, instead of doing a proper Scandinavian minimalist design inside and out (like some recent Volvos have done).

[Brigitte]

Quote from Day 3:  What kept me most entertained during the drive was playing with the intelligent cruise control as it kept shutting off when I drove towards the sun.

  Safety feature or gremlin?  If it's safety, does it have anything to do with people falling asleep at the wheel when facing the sun? 

[Jaeger]

I don't think I made myself clear.  I've got no problem with a design that "feels Japanese."  The first-generation Acura TSX struck me as quintessentially Japanese in design, inside and out--and I loved that car (and possibly would have bought it if I didn't have a kid and bought that damn Subaru).  The Mazda RX-8 is another car that strikes me as quintessentially Japanese in design, inside and out, and I was debating buying one of those when the deal on the Jetta fell into my lap.

These conclusory statements are an entirely valid expression of your opnion, but not terribly enlightening.  The TSX is quintissentially Japanese?  Okay, what are the design elements or performance aspects that make it so?  The RX-8 is quintissentially Japanese?  Okay, what are the design elements or performance aspects that make it so?  And what elements of the G-37 are un-Japanese?

For what it's worth - both the TSX and the RX-8 are cars I much admire - I'm just not seeing how they are "Japanese" and the G-37 is not.  I can't see what inherently "Japanese" features they posses (being quite dissimilar from each other in almost every respect) that the G does not.

As for the grill and dash - I think you are confusing marketing with design.  If no-one ever said they were "inspired" by swords and rice paper, it would never haev occured to you that they were.  Judged on an aesthetic level alone - there is abolutely nothing wrong with them.  I'm not buying your "contrived" point no matter how hard you sell. And as for equating these design elemets on the G with grafting a horned helmet on the hood of a Corolla - well  Mitlov, all I can say is that level of hyperbole is unworthy of you.

Jaeger

[inco]

I don't think I made myself clear.  I've got no problem with a design that "feels Japanese."  The first-generation Acura TSX struck me as quintessentially Japanese in design, inside and out--and I loved that car (and possibly would have bought it if I didn't have a kid and bought that damn Subaru).  The Mazda RX-8 is another car that strikes me as quintessentially Japanese in design, inside and out, and I was debating buying one of those when the deal on the Jetta fell into my lap.

These conclusory statements are an entirely valid expression of your opnion, but not terribly enlightening.  The TSX is quintissentially Japanese?  Okay, what are the design elements or performance aspects that make it so?  The RX-8 is quintissentially Japanese?  Okay, what are the design elements or performance aspects that make it so?  At what elements of the G-37 are un-Japanese?

For what it's worth - both the TSX and the RX-8 are cars I much admire - I'm just not seeing how they are "Japanese" and the G-37 is not.  I can't see what inherently "Japanese" features they posses (being quite dissimilar from each other in almost every respect) that the G does not.

As for the grill and dash - I think you are confusing marketing with design.  If no-one ever said they were "inspired" by swords and rice paper, it would never haev occured to you that they were.  Judged on an aesthetic level alone - there is abolutely nothing wrong with them.  I'm not buying your "contrived" point no matter how hard you sell.

Jaeger

Interesting discussion you two, but I'm going to go out on a limb and take a side here and agree with Mitlov and think I know where he is coming from.

Maybe the word compromise fits best here and it's what designers do to build a car that is going to suit a broader market - or broader beam perhaps. Example - Japanese cars typically are form fitting and the people they fit are of a much smaller frame. Agreed?

So to expand the market reach of the car and make it more palatable to a larger crowd - North Americans, one design feature is to widen the seats to accomodate our 'wealth' (girth).

And the same can be said for suspension tuning. We have highways, lots of 'em and we eat miles and miles of them and so highway comfort, that cruising ability, means a slightly different setting for us versus European or Japanese customers per se.

Taking these areas into consideration, the G 37 goes a bit further than an RX-8 to accomodate the NA market needs, making it less Japanese in the long run.
How's that for a consideration?

[Cord]

Quote from Day 3:  What kept me most entertained during the drive was playing with the intelligent cruise control as it kept shutting off when I drove towards the sun.

  Safety feature or gremlin?  If it's safety, does it have anything to do with people falling asleep at the wheel when facing the sun? 

Safety feature indeed. How close were you getting to the sun anyway?

[walt s]

I just purchased  2009 G37 sedan after testing all the competitors. It is well built, very fast, and surprisingly has good fuel economy for a 300 hp Plus machine. It may not have the BMW, Audi so called "feel" but in the real world of driving it is just as good if not better in some respects. I got a deal for far less than the german equivalent and a better warranty.  For those that consider the G37 as a second tier sports sedan should  look into the reliability, repair and recall statistics.  Oh and the G37 still has an oil dipstick while the BMW not has not, a true driving enthusiast likes to look and check the oil quality rather than grumbling about the nature of the interior design.