Topic: Toyota may report $7 Billion 4th Quarter Loss

[Patate]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=a5_ECaMRHUBo&refer=asia

"Toyota probably had a net loss of 678 billion yen ($6.9 billion) for the three months ended March 31 from a profit of 317 billion yen a year earlier, according to the median of four analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg. "

Well that is about 5 times more than Ford.  Strong yen, new plants to pay for, while demand has crumbled everywhere in the world.  In Japan, no one buys cars anymore, in the US it's around -40%, and in Europe people stay away from ToyHonda.  Don't forget badly-launched over-budgeted projects (Tundra), and you have a recipe for disaster.

The article also has estimates from Nissan, Honda and the South Korean automakers.

[Erik]

Nothing more dangerous than being in an aggressive growth mode when the market turns around. Must be a shock to the system of a company that has always been growing and profitable.

[99 Silver]

Wow - those are huge numbers!

I wonder what the Japanese companies will do if the Yen valuation stays where it is now?  It's either raise prices or source more product in North America.  The Japanese government has been accused of controlling the Yen value in the past.

The only good thing for the Japanese companies is that they have been profitable for years and probably have their balance sheets in order.  Nissan was a basket case a few years ago, but I believe they have cleaned up their act.

[safristi]

...i've had more "yens"..in HIGH SKOOL............................... ...and happily a few "pounds"............

[articsteve]

For the last 3 months Toyota has been stockpiling parts and assisting tier 2 and tier 3 NA part suppliers in conjunction with financing alternate parts operations.

The Detroit 3:  nothing ... waiting for the collapse.  Delphi, the still Chapter 11 spin off of GM, is completely underwater even after recent GM money and TARP money.  American Axle is also at the end of the road.

"Toyota stockpiles parts as a precaution" .
Autonews.com, April 27, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

Toyota Motor Corp.'s North American auto plants are warehousing key parts to safeguard against supply chain interruptions caused by supplier failures.

The company is ordering more parts than it needs in order to build reserves that would allow it to continue assembling vehicles in the event of an interruption.

It is also looking for duplicate sources of some parts in cases where it feels particularly vulnerable, said Steve St. Angelo, senior vice president of Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing North America Inc. and president of the company's large assembly complex in Georgetown, Ky.

"Our biggest risk is our suppliers," St. Angelo said. "I can't ship a Camry or an Avalon if it's missing even one part."

Toyota is most concerned about the condition of Tier 2 and Tier 3 suppliers because it has less information about them, St. Angelo said. Toyota normally is reluctant to discuss problems in its supply chain.

But St. Angelo told Automotive News that the Georgetown vehicle assembly and engine plant complex is using warehouse space near the plant to house extra parts from critical suppliers.

The moves violate Toyota's vaunted "just in time" production philosophy, which views warehousing as a symbol of muda, or waste and inefficiency.

But Toyota now faces a worse problem than inefficiency: It fears that a bankruptcy by one of the Detroit 3 could set off a chain reaction of U.S. business failures that would shut down Toyota's own North American system.

Since opening its first U.S. assembly plant in 1984, Toyota has become deeply rooted in the U.S. landscape. Although it continues to do business with a cadre of Japanese parts companies in which it holds a small ownership stake, Toyota has expanded its supplier network.

More than half of Toyota's 500 U.S. parts suppliers also do business with General Motors, St. Angelo said. And some of them are struggling.

On March 11, Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., said Toyota has "real concerns" about 20 to 30 of its U.S. suppliers for fear that they could shut down Toyota production.

War room

To monitor these suppliers, Toyota established a "war room" three months ago at its North American headquarters in Erlanger, Ky. Every Thursday morning, senior executives hold a one-hour meeting to monitor Toyota's suppliers.

Names of suppliers deemed to be in good shape for the week are marked with a circle. Suppliers marked with a triangle have experienced some trouble but are thought to be performing adequately, St. Angelo said.

Suppliers in immediate trouble are marked with an "X."

The weekly reviews are conducted by Toyota's Corporate Strategy Division, a high-level group consisting of Tetsuo Agata, president of the manufacturing company; Ray Tanguay, its executive vice president; St. Angelo, and Toyota's senior vice presidents.

St. Angelo also said that Toyota has dispatched people to help troubled suppliers improve their financial picture by cutting costs and improving performance[/i]

[toolatecrew]

This is nothing new. Detroit has been stockpiling parts for a long time.  Its just that the parts have already been assembled into a car before they store it somewhere to sit unused for months at a time. :-)

[barrie1]

The majority of Toyota's plant at home in Japan are closed and have been for a while. They also have a stockpile of assembeld parts which are not selling as well. They are No different from any of the other builders and are not safe from the same economic forces as well that is plagueing all the makers. They also have their share of problem vehicles as well which has been well proven just in the Tundra truckline alone. I am sure they have others as well just like everybody else. Probaly won't be in top spot for sales very long at all if they ever really reached this goal. 

[articsteve]

They also have a stockpile of assembeld parts which are not selling as well.

 

[rrocket]

The majority of Toyota's plant at home in Japan are closed and have been for a while.

   You're a funny guy, Barrie!  The plants are not "closed".  This whole closure you're talking was a TOTAL of 14 idle days from January until March, 2009.  Last I understood, the plants were back "open" again......LOL.......

"Toyota announced it will idle all 12 of its wholly owned factories in Japan for an extra 11 days in response to the slumping auto market.

The company already had announced a three-day shutdown, which was set to begin in January. Company spokesman Paul Nolasco said the longer stretch, scheduled for February and March, will help the company get through the downturn without cutting jobs. Three of the factories to be idled are auto assembly plants, while the rest make parts."

You have any additional info on this, Barrie?

[Mitlov]

Good. 

Not that I bear Toyota ill will.  But I honestly feel that complacency is starting to creep into their lineup.  Their lineup, from the Corolla (the most elderly-oriented compact car on the market?) to even the second-generation Scions (which have abandoned the JDM fanboys to better appeal to people like my mother).  I'd like to see some quality younger-folks oriented cars.  Cars that are fashionable and exciting to drive, not just practical transportation devices.

Some will say that boring and safe is the way to go when times are bad.  I disagree.  That's when you push the limits to get people's attention and pull loyalists away from other brands.  In the midst of near-catastrophe, Ford is giving us the fashionable-and-sporty Fiesta, the best Mustang ever, the funky-and-original Flex, one of the best-driving midsize sedans on the market (Fusion), and even bringing back the SHO.  I'd like to see Toyota push the boundaries like that again, not just make a Prius that is 7% more fuel-efficient and 8% more refined. 

Chant it with me:  CELICA!  MR2!  SUPRA!  CELICA!  MR2!  SUPRA!  CELICA!  MR2!  SUPRA!

We could at least start out with a more fashionable, sportier Corolla, like the Australian Corolla Levin ZR Hatch:

[Patate]

Good. 

Some will say that boring and safe is the way to go when times are bad.  I disagree.  That's when you push the limits to get people's attention and pull loyalists away from other brands.  In the midst of near-catastrophe, Ford is giving us the fashionable-and-sporty Fiesta, the best Mustang ever, the funky-and-original Flex, one of the best-driving midsize sedans on the market (Fusion), and even bringing back the SHO.  I'd like to see Toyota push the boundaries like that again, not just make a Prius that is 7% more fuel-efficient and 8% more refined. 

Toyota used to make money on bland cars, do you seriously think they will suddenly make sports cars and all will be well?  That Australian-spec Corolla would allienate customers.  They sell 5000 corollas each month in Canada, do you think they can risk something as big as this?  The Corolla S and XRS are too sportive for most Corolla buyers.  Toyota gets its image from the false perception that their cars are greener than other manufacturers, not by building fast cars.  They should stick with what they do best: provide pappymobiles and cars for ignorant hippies.  I gotta give Toyota credit though: the fact that they market their cars as green, while their 132 hp Corolla gets lower milage than the 159 hp Cobalt, is a proof of marketing genius.

If you could stick a GM badge on a Corolla, Yaris, Camry or Matrix, you would notice that they would sell 10x less than if they were Toyotas.  The matrix/vibe is the best example.  This is the proof that you could sell a turd wrapped in tin foil for 100$ if your marketing departement can succesfully tell the mass that it is the solution to global warming. 

As for the two trolls who commented earlier in this thread (Artic and crew), you guys can post garbage or quote some articles all you want, the cold hard fact is that Ford loses 5x less money than Toyota.  oops 

And Artic, Toyota's suppliers are at the brink of bankruptcy, of course they act now, unlike GM with Delphi.  Toyota can learn from GM's mistakes.  And as for the "Detroit 3 does nothing", well hasn't GM done something major yesterday? and what about Chrysler?  Haven't they reduced their debts from 8,9 billions to 2 billions?

Toyota's past success came from governement intervention (Yen manipulation).  If the laws of the free-market are the only ones in effect, Toyota's business plan during an economic crisis costs almost 2 billions a month, which is about twice of GM's loss.  Japan's interventionism is more important than any bailout. You show me how the auto industry is a proof of free trade or fair trade, and I'll show you a troll who constantly bless everything Toyota does.

[articsteve]

Palate; what's your ride these days. 

GM is OVER.  It's all POLITICS now.   Apparently the new owners are the US Federal Government and the UNION.  What a COMBO. 

GM Canada will reduce workforce to 4000 assemblers by 2012 at at cost of 10,000,000,000.  Ya that's right .... 10 BILLION to save 4000 jobs all for cars that nobody wants without cash back and 0%.   

[Honda Owner]

The majority of Toyota's plant at home in Japan are closed and have been for a while.

Can you provide a source for this allegation, Barrie?

For what we are forking out in corporate welfare for GM and Chrysler, we could pay every worker to stay home at fill salary for the rest of his/her life.

[toolatecrew]

The majority of Toyota's plant at home in Japan are closed and have been for a while.

Can you provide a source for this allegation, Barrie?

For what we are forking out in corporate welfare for GM and Chrysler, we could pay every worker to stay home at fill salary for the rest of his/her life.

I would also like to see a source for that bald faced lie. But we all know it will never come:

Toyota had begun an unprecedented production slowdown that called for reduced shifts and 10-day closures at its 12 domestic plants.

March 22 2009

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-toyota-city22-2009mar22,0,6539982.story?page=2

Unprecendented means hasn't happned before.


Maost car manufactures have been hurt. People are buying fewer cars. That means you need to make fewer. That means you need to employ less people and use less plant capacity. We get it.

But the continual argument that GM/Chyco aren't "that bad" becuase Toyota had a loss is just pathetic. Its like the child of a terminal parent trying to make themselves feel better by take pleasure in the relativley minor midery of others.

Little Johnny Chrysler/GM has mom. His mom has been smoking and drinking and doing drugs for years. Spending all the family savings. People have tried to send her to rehab but she always "kenw better". Now she is terminal. She is going to die any day now. What does little Johnny do? When he sees little Freddy Toyota he yells hey Freddy I heard your mom tripped and broke her leg. See your mom is not better than mine.

[safristi]

..Um...Aaron mis SPELLINGS new  show..................

[barrie1]

This has all been published in the Globe and Mail and actually mentioned on here a week ago or so as well. The reason the Globe published it was the fact that Unemployment offices in Japan have not had such a swamping of folks looking for work since the auto industry started there years ago in its present form. There was about 6 different articles within the last 2 weeks published by them on this and similar topics as well. LOOK IT UP IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY READ.  To deny this being true only makes you a bigger liar for accusing me or anyone else regarding this topic. This applys to more then one of you on here. Many of you would rather do the lazy thing and just accuse me of being the liar but its your turn for sure this time. 

[ovr50]

This has all been published in the Globe and Mail and actually mentioned on here a week ago or so as well. The reason the Globe published it was the fact that Unemployment offices in Japan have not had such a swamping of folks looking for work since the auto industry started there years ago in its present form. There was about 6 different articles within the last 2 weeks published by them on this and similar topics as well. LOOK IT UP IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY READ.  To deny this being true only makes you a bigger liar for accusing me or anyone else regarding this topic. This applys to more then one of you on here. Many of you would rather do the lazy thing and just accuse me of being the liar but its your turn for sure this time. 

Good fricking grief....

[articsteve]

This has all been published in the Globe and Mail and actually mentioned on here a week ago or so as well. The reason the Globe published it was the fact that Unemployment offices in Japan have not had such a swamping of folks looking for work since the auto industry started there years ago in its present form. There was about 6 different articles within the last 2 weeks published by them on this and similar topics as well. LOOK IT UP IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY READ.  To deny this being true only makes you a bigger liar for accusing me or anyone else regarding this topic. This applys to more then one of you on here. Many of you would rather do the lazy thing and just accuse me of being the liar but its your turn for sure this time. 

I thought you were some sort of "professor"  ,  so you should know that's it up to YOU to support your "information" with actual TEXT.

Japan's exports are down 50%.  They have many unemployed.

[Silent Lucidity]

This has all been published in the Globe and Mail and actually mentioned on here a week ago or so as well. The reason the Globe published it was the fact that Unemployment offices in Japan have not had such a swamping of folks looking for work since the auto industry started there years ago in its present form. There was about 6 different articles within the last 2 weeks published by them on this and similar topics as well. LOOK IT UP IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY READ.  To deny this being true only makes you a bigger liar for accusing me or anyone else regarding this topic. This applys to more then one of you on here. Many of you would rather do the lazy thing and just accuse me of being the liar but its your turn for sure this time. 

If you could ACTUALLY POST A LINK, I would be happy to read it.     

Couldn't find Barrie's truth, but did find the following.

Honda forecasts small annual profit amid cost cuts
http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090428.whondaearns0428/BNStory/Business/home
“This is positive,” said Credit Suisse auto analyst Koji Endo. “Honda is a very conservative company so the fact that they're saying, ‘We won't be in the red this year,' is a strong message.”

[Mitlov]

The hate in this thread is unbelievable.