Topic: Too many waterpumps

[21Rouge]

I have an 05 Vibe with almost 50k miles. In that time period I have had the waterpump replaced 2 times under warranty (most recently April 08). This past on Friday "my" mechanic noticed signs of some leakage again...I think he said some white residue around the base of the pump from below (while on the hoist). (He noticed only because I asked him to check as he was changing out the winter tires). Never has any of the leaks been major i.e. never any noticeable liquid on the ground but it is frustrating that this car goes through so many pumps.

*If* it is the pump there shouldn't be a problem getting it replaced under warranty as this Vibe has an extended GMPP. These past two pumps were done at the very close and convenient Chevrolet dealer (rather than at Pontiac). I know the Vibe isn't a Ferrari but for sure the Chevy dealer would see far fewer Vibes. I don't know. But going through basically one water pump per year isn't right.

 

[articsteve]

That's what happens when DEXCOOL goes in a motor that specifically says "NO DEXCOOL".

[21Rouge]

That's what happens when DEXCOOL goes in a motor that specifically says "NO DEXCOOL".

That doesn't explain the premature failure of the OEM pump which came with Toyota pink from the factory.

[PJungnitsch]

If the leak is minor I would try flushing the system and replacing the red coolant with regular green stuff. All the red coolants, Dexcool or otherwise, tend to 'wick' and leak. When I switched to red coolant in my old motorcycle I had pink residue tracks everywhere, including the water pump, which had never leaked before.

Going by this thread (a picture from the downloadable how-to is attached) some of these weep a little bit from new, and I'd bet it's the 'red' coolant.

http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=23818&postid=285769#285769

[21Rouge]

Thanks for your research.

So it seems that weeping at the seal isnt unusual. And I believe in each wp replacement for my Vibe this is the problem i.e. not a major failure but rather weeping. However this should be detectable via a pressure test?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The only mechanical problem I had with my 95 Corolla wagon was the water pump. I ended up replacing it twice. It used an earlier variant of the 1.8L in the Vibetrix. IIRC it was a well known issue.

I had a 05 Vibe too, but sold it last year. No issues, but not many kms on it either.

[PJungnitsch]

However this should be detectable via a pressure test?

Dunno. I'd have thought so, unless the shaft has to be spinning to affect how it seals.

Something else that came up, not for a Vibe specifically, but might be useful:

Check the pulley for out of round or warpage. This could cause an out of balance condition that rapidly wears out the bearing in the water pump. Start the vehicle once the pump is replaced and watch the water pump pulley to see if it bounces. Replace the pulley if it shows out of round.

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4868939_troubleshooting-auto-water-pump.html

Overtightening the belt is something else I imagine might be hard on the waterpump. Did the old waterpumps have noticeable play, ie was something taking out the bearing and therefore the seal followed?

[21Rouge]

Something else that came up, not for a Vibe specifically, but might be useful:

Check the pulley for out of round or warpage. This could cause an out of balance condition that rapidly wears out the bearing in the water pump. Start the vehicle once the pump is replaced and watch the water pump pulley to see if it bounces. Replace the pulley if it shows out of round.

Overtightening the belt is something else I imagine might be hard on the waterpump. Did the old waterpumps have noticeable play, ie was something taking out the bearing and therefore the seal followed?

Good things to check. I will mention these things when I speak with the service rep. this week.

[articsteve]

All the red coolants, Dexcool or otherwise

Dexcool is ORANGE.  

[PJungnitsch]

Heh, more complicated then that, as I'm finding out. Looking around for this I found a great article on the whole antifreeze thing. Pdf has extras:

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=816

Appears that 2-EHA is the 'Devil behind Dexcool'.

[articsteve]

Since that article was written Toyota only uses the "Long Life" which is red, but when mixed with water could be described as pink.  Definitely can not be confused with Dexcool.

I believe the extended life Honda anti freeze, which was green is now blue.

[safristi]

..pink...red...blue..green...yellow..............THAT"S RAD MAN......

[barrie1]

If the belt is tightened incorrectly it can cause these type of problems for sure. This is probably on a tensioner system which they can measure the amount of pressure being appllied with a fanbelt gauge quite easiley. There is a water pump lubricate that can be added to the system which helps the bearing quite a bit. Not all that expensive to buy and is just added to the coolant which if Dexcool is usually pink in colour when water is added. I strongely recommend distilled water for most of the rads of to-day as it better for the materials by not building up as much waste type sludge in the rad or on the impeller of the pump as well. 

[21Rouge]

Update:

Had the Vibe in at the Chevy dealer that had done the previous two pump replacements. I told the service manager my concerns (as mentioned in this thread). Upon return he had authorized to replace it, again, but only as it was covered under warranty. Otherwise he would have recommended to leave it as he claims that this pump is just weeping from the weep hole i.e there is nothing wrong. I am looking at the invoice and although it doesnt say this, he did say no problem was shown on the pressure test. 

[articsteve]

Upon return he had authorized to replace it, again, but only as it was covered under warranty. Otherwise he would have recommended to leave it as he claims that this pump is just weeping from the weep hole i.e there is nothing wrong

Dealers do this all the time.  If it produces revenue for the department and it's January  and the company is willing to pay then so be it.  If the customer is gonna foot the bill then common sense prevails.  As an example:  early 4 banger 07 Camrys have a TBS out on the water pump, MAY weep and degrade drive belt.  Ok, wife's unit just passing out of 60K warranty and looks like weeping to the mechanic as best as he can ascertain  .  Result ... new water pump/new drive belt. 

and I will add that the water pump is a real b..... to access.

[21Rouge]

Upon return he had authorized to replace it, again, but only as it was covered under warranty. Otherwise he would have recommended to leave it as he claims that this pump is just weeping from the weep hole i.e there is nothing wrong

Dealers do this all the time.  If it produces revenue for the department..

and I will add that the water pump is a real b..... to access.

Not sure what else I could do. I visited the service manager the day before as I would be dropping the car after hours. I told him my concern(s) and possible things to check this time re the waterpump i.e. warpage, tensioner,..

I had even printed off detailed instructions re the removal and installation of the waterpump in a Vibe

I guess all I can hope is that my 'involvement' might help this time if for the only reason that it might have the tech think twice while installing the new one.   

[articsteve]

It's quite amazing that GM warranty is paying for this repair 3 times.  No re-occuring issue like this on the Matrix that I have heard of.  Only thing you can do is go along for the ride. They need to use plenty of silicone.  That always seals it. 

[Newatcars]

lol poor u

[johngenx]

lol poor u

Uh, that's not coming off very well.  Are you laughing at someone's misfortune?

[21Rouge]

Are you laughing at someone's misfortune?

Its not so much even that, as failing waterpumps replaced under warranty is for sure no great misfortune, but his comment sounds....immature, juvenile...for an adult.