Topic: Fiat to Chrysler: Drop UAW or we'll walk.

[ghost]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14866

Deal or no Deal Italian style. Down the article is seems to indicate that CAW is the one that is resisting to any compromises with Chrysler. Blood bath 2009 for many Ontario CAW workers. Will have spill-over effect too.

[ovr50]

My reading of the entire Fiat/Chrysler deal is that it is far from a done-deal, and may be a non-issue soon. Chrysler is going to and needs to go thru Bankruptcy proceedings to clear up the mess. IMO of course. 

[Thinking Out Loud]

Just posted a thread on US Saturn dealers buying the brand with a PE firm in Oklahoma City.

Maybe the Union can put it's money where it's mouth is and buy the INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL over 30+ years, BILLIONS in OBSCENE PROFIT flowing into the US of A....Canadian operations of ChryCo.

Let's see if Labour is smarter than business when the shoes on the other foot...easy to critique The Man when you are the permanent opposition...lets see if President Ken LeBaron - errrr Lewenza - can dance!  

Time to put up or shut up, Kenny....if CAW economist Jim Stanford's mathemagics are 'accurate' it's worth a buy in based on their OWN facts and figures....

[PJungnitsch]

Chrysler sends a letter to workers on Friday begging for paycuts.

http://www.windsorstar.com/Business/Letter+Message+from+LaSorda+Nardelli/1506591/story.html

Workers burn it.

http://www.windsorstar.com/Business/Workers+burn+Chrysler+execs+letter/1507048/story.html

[Honda Owner]

I hope they don't burn their ROEs when they get them.

This is so incredibly brilliant. I saw the Burrard Yarrows shipyard shut down in the 1990s when the company said, "if we cannot have some flexibility, we'll have to shut down."

The union, in its greatest wisdom, shouted "Solidarity forever." Now these workers are working at Tim Horton's forever, which I expect will happen to most of the CAW workers if their leadership doesn't grow a brain soon.

[articsteve]

I think Fiat doesn't really give a sh*t about this deal.  From what I have read the situation is that they will sign on if it's no cash expense to them and the American taxpayer foots the bill.

Is not Fiat in trouble?  Did not GM recently blow 4 Billion pulling out of a deal with them because it turned out they sucked.

[articsteve]

Unions are great for lazy workers and trap workers that are good producers.

Those ppl in the photo will represent a minority opinion.  Must suck to be a Chrysler assembler that just wants a job watching his life slip away because his destiny is legally controlled by hardcore fanatics.

CAW refuse request to end travel health insurance to union "snowbirds" residing in the USA.  Can't get anymore stupid than that.

[RunsinLight]

My only experience in a non union shop was about 10 years ago. I walk in to work for my first day with about 5 other friends who had also been
hired. At the same time I saw 3 other long time employees leaving with boxes in their hand. I did not feel right about this and realized that could be me sometime. Never considered working in a non union environment after that.

Not all unions are bad. We've given up benefits that really hit families in the pocket books.

[safristi]

"FIAT" monies are being printed in the Billions    ....errr sorry ...I meant TRILLIONS as we speak (throw UP...............

[articsteve]

Not all unions are bad.

That is true.  However, there should be some mechanism to kick the free loaders out.  My wife's public service sector is all unionized.  They get a dud that sneaks past the 90 day trial period (and they all do) and the organization is stuck with these ppl for life.  Feeling down, no problem, get a DR. to say your depressed and your off for 6 months and management can't even ask a question.  One lady went to France for 6 months, full pay, then comes backs and takes her holidays that accumulated while she was in France  ; all legal (newbies start at 4 weeks holidays then move to 5 weeks after 10 years/same benefits as teachers - the GOLD card)

[rrocket]

Even here in Windsor, some CAW union members are starting to tire of the CAWs inflexibility.  A couple of shops recently went against the union and voted "YES" on concessions that the union told them to vote "NO" to (Emrick Plastics was one of them...I forget the other).  This came on the heels of a shop (Windsor Match Plate) that said "We need concessions or we'll have to shut the doors...we need help".  The union told the members to vote "NO" (union officials told employees the shop was bluffing and try to take advantage of employees).  So they voted "NO".  Days later, the shop closed the doors. 

Again...CAW has no clue there's a difference between saving jobs and saving wages....

[carcrazy]

The type of benefits Chrysler is asking the workers to cut is really perks that I bet most of the people don't have at their workplaces.
It's unbelievable that CAW workers are willing to lose their jobs and many other jobs around them over this kind of stuff.
However, it would be interesting to know where the aprox. $11/hr. difference would come from.

[toolatecrew]

I actually agree with the COw that they should not give Chrysler 19 hour in concessions. It would set a precedent for massive cuts at Ford and GM. They are probably going to have have to give further cuts to Ford and Gm anyways but not 19$ an hour. Its not worth having to give those big cuts to GM and Ford simply to save Chrysler jobs.  Its unfortunate that they need to sacrifice 8000 CAW jobs for the sake of the continued compensation of the other probably 20,000 but its the greater good. I wouldn't feel so great about it if I was one of the 8000 sacrificed but it is what it is.

That said the people burning the letters are a bunch of morons who are simply giving Chrysler (and the government) exactly what they want . What better image to shape public opinion to blame the pull out of Chrysler on militant overpaid CAW workers. That is what they want. They want a scapegoat and they are giving it to them on a silver platter. No amount of spin from CAW is going to offset those images. Way to go morons.

[Hank Horsey]

Not all unions are bad. We've given up benefits that really hit families in the pocket books.

It's sad to see a good thing fall apart, and manufacturing unions were a great an necessary thing for many decades. But the party's over. The CAW cites industry wages across the world as if it's all a common labour market, but it isn't. Canadians don't get to go work in German factories for better pay. And there are plenty of other Canadians (and Koreans and Chinese and Mexicans) who would gladly take the jobs below CAW rates. Don't they deserve a living too?

I have a small business (just me, in fact). I don't get to set my rate based on what people like me earn in Germany or Japan. I don't get to demand benefits from clients, and I can't get a government loan if I decide to set my own wage at an unsustainable rate. Autoworkers need to stand on their own two feet like everybody else—not because the rest of us feel vindictive or resentful, but because that's what's fair. And because they don't have a choice anymore.   

[toolatecrew]

Very interesting :

Ken Lewenza, CAWs president, has rejected Chrysler's demand for an all-in labour cost cut of $19 an hour. His senior leadership team is now clearly readying 8,000 CAW members at Chrysler for a bankruptcy protection situation.
The union's circular warns that it's possible a Canadian bankruptcy judge may allow a company to suspend retiree benefits payouts. It also cautions that in the event an automaker is unable to survive bankruptcy restructuring and is liquidated, pensioners would see their benefits cut back.

In effect: We won't give you the cuts to benefits (tuition reimbursment medical etc) you want. Since we want give you the cuts you want you can go chapter 11 and not only will the CURRENT Chrysler workers lose those benefits but also former workers on pension have those benefits suspended?

Once again I am not saying I disagree whit the CAW stance to sacrifice the 8000 Chrysler workers to maintain a higher compensation rate for the remaining 20,000 plus GM and Ford workers ..I would do the same if my mandate were the "greater good". I wonder how those 8000 are going to feel though? WIll the CAW be topping up their EI and benefits? Will their other 20,000 brothers and sisters be passing the hat to support them?

Is this "fair"? Not really its not the 8000 CAW workers for Chrysler's fault that Cerberus has made a mess and that Fiat (justifiably) wants the deal of the century to save them. But there really isn't any choice. Chrysler will get its cuts one way or another. They either get them from CAW or the get them via the UAW by pulling all the Canadian jobs and transferring them to the UAW. It is what it is.

The remaining 20,000 or so CAW members will probably become even more loyal. The 8000 will feel betrayed . Any attempt to unionize a new plant in the next few years I'm sure it will be raised. Will you be abandoned?

[carcrazy]

What is the guarantee that the remaining 20000 CAW jobs at GM and Ford will be saved? GM and Ford could do just the same - pull the production out of Canada if CAW doesn't give up part of what they need to survive.
I fail to see the CAW logic if there is any.

[toolatecrew]

What is the guarantee that the remaining 20000 CAW jobs at GM and Ford will be saved? GM and Ford could do just the same - pull the production out of Canada if CAW doesn't give up part of what they need to survive.
I fail to see the CAW logic if there is any.

Yes the COULD do that but Ford hasn't asked for any money. Ford hasn't asked for ANY concessions from the CAW at this time. As far as Ford is concerned its really business as usual.

GM has reached an agreement already. The government could force them to revisit it but there is no indication that a pullout is iminent. NONE

Chrysler is deinitley the Lame duck of the 3.
You can only play the hand you are dealt.

[carcrazy]

What is the guarantee that the remaining 20000 CAW jobs at GM and Ford will be saved? GM and Ford could do just the same - pull the production out of Canada if CAW doesn't give up part of what they need to survive.
I fail to see the CAW logic if there is any.

Yes the COULD do that but Ford hasn't asked for any money. Ford hasn't asked for ANY concessions from the CAW at this time. As far as Ford is concerned its really business as usual.

GM has reached an agreement already. The government could force them to revisit it but there is no indication that a pullout is iminent. NONE

Chrysler is deinitley the Lame duck of the 3.
You can only play the hand you are dealt.

Even in this case, sacrificing 8000 jobs over that kind of PERKS doesn't make any sense to me (I think Chrysler had stated that they did not ask CAW for wages or pension reductions).

[toolatecrew]

What is the guarantee that the remaining 20000 CAW jobs at GM and Ford will be saved? GM and Ford could do just the same - pull the production out of Canada if CAW doesn't give up part of what they need to survive.
I fail to see the CAW logic if there is any.

Yes the COULD do that but Ford hasn't asked for any money. Ford hasn't asked for ANY concessions from the CAW at this time. As far as Ford is concerned its really business as usual.

GM has reached an agreement already. The government could force them to revisit it but there is no indication that a pullout is iminent. NONE

Chrysler is deinitley the Lame duck of the 3.
You can only play the hand you are dealt.

Even in this case, sacrificing 8000 jobs over that kind of PERKS doesn't make any sense to me (I think Chrysler had stated that they did not ask CAW for wages or pension reductions).

The letter outlined the company’s proposals to offset costs, “without affecting base wages and pensions.” They include:

• Prescription drug dispensing fees, by eliminating the cap results in estimated savings of $2.16 per hour.

• Elimination of out-of-province health care coverage (snowbirds), with employees and retirees assuming responsibility for any coverage results in a cost savings of $1.00 per hour.

• The change from semi-private hospital room coverage to “ward” coverage saves an estimated $0.97 per hour.

• Elimination of life insurance for current and future employees results in a cost savings of $1.54 per hour.   

• The reduction of shift premiums to 2.5 per cent results in a cost savings of $.80 per hour.   

• The elimination of non-traditional benefits such as child care, legal services, tuition reimbursement, dependent scholarships and extended health care coverage (chiropractic services, massage therapy, naturopath, orthotics, etc.) results in a cost savings of $0.73 per hour. 

No they didn't ask for WAGE reductions. They asked to substanitally reduce non wage benifts which I doubt the CAW wants to giver up for all 30,000 workers. If they give that concession for 8000 workers it will be expected likley for all companies.

Whether anyone considers these benifits to be excessive (I do) isn't really the issue. Those benifits are not necessary to compete for the avialble workers. They make costs higher than competative companies. There "benifits" are what got the Big 3 into trouble in the first place. Wages stop once a person retires and is no longer contributing to production. Many of these other benifits do not. As people rtire you carry the cost of them as added on top of current employees.

[barrie1]

The Gov employee's have much more expensive plans then the CAW has ever had but you don't about them now do you, sma egoes for the teachers as well. They are both Unionized in one form or another as well. but thats Ok.  Chrysler's Brass has dug this hole and has forced their workers on other occasions over the years to take less and give money back while they got paid the big bucks all the time. Its not the Union guy on the floor who has caused this problem at all but the greed of the brass and the Gov. GM has already made a agreement with the CAW and is very pleased with it as that has been made public numerous times already. We all feel bad for the guys at Chrysler but its up to them to say either Yes or No and No-body else. Who dictates the rules in Canada anyways, other Countries or even our own Gov which is ridiculous they way they waste money on a reg basis. I wouldn't trust them to tie my shoes let alone manage a pension fund after what they have done with this fund already. That fund was to protect all of Canada's workers alone yet is down to only around 100 million or so I hear. Where is the rest of it and who has taken it. It hasen't been the auto industry at all as yet. If the auto industry can't be protected with their pensions you in your trade will not be as well. More Gov mismanagement again possibly or just plain theft as usual.