Author Topic: THE LETTER THAT COULD SAVE AUTOWORKER JOBS (but will never be sent) (Read 2366 times)

Thinking Out Loud · « **on:** April 13, 2009, 09:24:42 pm »

TO: Big Guys at Volkswagen AG
FROM: Ken, CAW Big Guy
CC: Various Provincial and Federal Big Wigs

Dear VW Big Wigs:

As you may have heard, the situation in the North American auto sector is desperate for a wide number of reasons. One of those reasons is due to overcapacity at a variety of manufacturers both domestic and internationally headquartered, as the economy goes through an adjustment unlike the world has seen in decades.

Here in Ontario, Canada, I represent a diverse and hard working group of individuals that build award-winning trucks and passenger vehicles. Ontario has been the focalpoint of auto manufacturing for over 50 years, with primary plants in Windsor, Oakville, Oshawa, and Brampton - the final one you are likely familiar with in your joint venture with Chrysler building the Routan minivan. We have established transportation routes to the United States, and a diverse number of suppliers all within JIT delivery range or near all those plants.

It has recently been announced that you are interested in producing the new Polo (in various Amercianized versions) for sale in North America. Generally, it is believed that it would have to be produced in Mexico to make it price-competitive due to lower labour costs and experience in manufacturing in that country currently.

We believe that VW would be incredibly well served in employing the thousands of experienced auto sector workers in Canada, as has benefitted the domestic manufacturers for years and, as metioned, has continually produced award winning vehicles. Some other manufacturers have elected to set up non-union facilities, which also produce award winning vehicles. Such is the dedication of Canadians to this sector.

To the end, we approach you as a union, along with Provincial and Federal counterparts, to ask you to consider Canada as a viable option for building your new products.

In the best interests of Canadian workers facing an uncertain future in this time of crisis, we recogize that an EMPLOYED autoworker is better than an UNEMPLOYED union autoworker, and agree that we will not unionize any operation you set up in Ontario, to mitigate in whatever way possible the financial decimation our workers are facing to entice your considerations.

We look forward to your response in kind fashion,

Ken

dorin · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2009, 11:18:13 pm »

That's just retarded. I can't believe people on this board at so virulently anti-union as to use every opportunity to indulge in union-bashing.

The CAW does what it does for its members. Suggesting that it should voluntarily commit organizational suicide is nothing but insultingly moronic.

articsteve · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2009, 11:24:14 pm »

I agree that letter is fairly retarded. Firstly, if VW buys some of the Chrysler operation it will be under liquidation, hence no union, no legacy costs. If VW did re-open the plant the union would be out front attempting a certification the first day.

tpl · « **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2009, 06:27:31 am »

Quote from: articsteve on April 13, 2009, 11:24:14 pm

I agree that letter is fairly retarded. Firstly, if VW buys some of the Chrysler operation it will be under liquidation, hence no union, no legacy costs. If VW did re-open the plant the union would be out front attempting a certification the first day.

Artic you missed this post

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,61864.msg572978.html#msg572978

The Union would be there before theplant reopened

DockMan · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2009, 08:14:37 am »

Quote from: dorin on April 13, 2009, 11:18:13 pm

The CAW does what it does for its members. Suggesting that it should voluntarily commit organizational suicide is nothing but insultingly moronic.

The CAW is supposed to do for it's members what each of us attempts to daily to do for ourselves....maximize our financial return for our time investment. There are many arguments to be made about how effective the modern unions are at that task, by some measures (ie hourly rate, etc) very effective by others not so effective (ie. the ability to create an environment where ongoing they apparently earn/deserve ever increasing levels of remuneration). But you can't fault the union for trying to get more for their members any more than you can for a business trying to maximize profits.

toolatecrew · « **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2009, 09:01:45 am »

Quote from: DockMan on April 14, 2009, 08:14:37 am

Quote from: dorin on April 13, 2009, 11:18:13 pm
The CAW does what it does for its members. Suggesting that it should voluntarily commit organizational suicide is nothing but insultingly moronic.

The CAW is supposed to do for it's members what each of us attempts to daily to do for ourselves....maximize our financial return for our time investment. There are many arguments to be made about how effective the modern unions are at that task, by some measures (ie hourly rate, etc) very effective by others not so effective (ie. the ability to create an environment where ongoing they apparently earn/deserve ever increasing levels of remuneration). But you can't fault the union for trying to get more for their members any more than you can for a business trying to maximize profits.

Its a very good observation and a good post.

People also need to see the other side. What might be seen as "Union bashing" may simply be people who are frustrated with CAw crying "poor" when there are many out there who are much worse off. The CAW latley has often cloaked their crys for help in some type of concern for "all Canadians". Outrage over Ontario government not stockpiling more money to backstop pensions? Well the majority of people don't HAVE company pesnions. The majority of hardworking people tried to fund their own retirment by investing. The recent financial crash devestated many of them. But the CAW wants the money the Government saves to maintain someone's pension driven lifstyle while those without pensions were wiped out and maybe starving?

This is simply not a climate where there will be sympathy for those that are "better off" than average to start. There simply will not be sympathy for the implication that CAW members are more "deserving" simply because they are CAW members.

Joe and john are bith farmers. Joe is a member of the farmers guild. John is not. Both work long hours tending their field.Both contribute 1/10 of their crop to the Government wharehouse. A drought wipes out both farms. wipes out both farms. Both have 3 kids and a wife to feed.

You think Joe is going to get sympathy if he shows up at the giovernment wharehouse wailing that he needs some food from it to feed his family and that he deserves it more than John?

I expect people to take care of their own and get what they can for thier own. Don't expect sympathy if ypou try o play off the pight of others to get it though.

inco · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2009, 11:09:37 am »

"In the best interests of Canadian workers facing an uncertain future in this time of crisis, we recogize that an EMPLOYED autoworker is better than an UNEMPLOYED union autoworker, and agree that we will not unionize any operation you set up in Ontario, to mitigate in whatever way possible the financial decimation our workers are facing to entice your considerations."

Oh sure - and income taxes will be eliminated in the next federal budget.

Thinking Out Loud · « **Reply #7 on:** April 14, 2009, 12:03:49 pm »

Quote from: dorin on April 13, 2009, 11:18:13 pm

That's just retarded. I can't believe people on this board at so virulently anti-union as to use every opportunity to indulge in union-bashing.

The CAW does what it does for its members. Suggesting that it should voluntarily commit organizational suicide is nothing but insultingly moronic.

There is 'anti-union' and then there is 'pro-worker'. I'm a bigger fan of the latter. $3,000,000,000 in money to Chrysler to build ecological dinosaurs under threat of 'punishing Canada' and pulling out of operations (which will likely be bankrupt shortly anyway) or $3,000,000,000 to VW to build a car of the future in the Polo.

VW, true enough, could set up here like Toyota and Honda in a non-union environment. Or, as is likely the case just go to Mexico. The CAW has thousands of laid off, qualified members that are looking at the decimation of their pensions and ultimately work as assembly starts to move to US plants, which it will. Or the Detroit Three simply cease to exist altoghter.

As, ultimately, will the CAW cease to exist. That is the reality.

The guys at VW can read, and seeing the CAW pulling a Kruschev, continually slamming thier shoe into a desk over BILLIONS in obscene profit made in Canada, being 'FURIOUS' at pension reductions they agreed to...do you think ANYONE wants to come here to build ANYTHING?

These are desperate times for people in many industries, just one of which is auto manufacturing. The only purpose of my post is to suggest that whatever 'worked' in the past will not work going forward.

The CAW can either reinvent itself as likely the single largest employment placement agency in Canada, or cut deals like they did with Magna where strikes are outlawed but the CAW can collect dues.

This is Ken's chance to take the non-union member's perception of unions being anti-business into a realm of getting people into work. And I think propositioning themselves to government in that fashion will ensure that the union can survive in some new form.

toolatecrew · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2009, 05:50:19 pm »

Quote from: Thinking Out Loud link=topic=62054.msg 573550#msg 573550 date=1239725029

Quote from: doreen link=topic=62054.msg 573463#msg 573463 date=1239679093
That's just retarded. I can't believe people on this board at so virulently anti-union as to use every opportunity to indulge in union-bashing.

The CAW does what it does for its members. Suggesting that it should voluntarily commit organizational suicide is nothing but insultingly moronic.

There is 'anti-union' and then there is 'pro-worker'. I'm a bigger fan of the latter. $3,000,000,000 in money to Chrysler to build ecological dinosaurs under threat of 'punishing Canada' and pulling out of operations (which will likely be bankrupt shortly anyway) or $3,000,000,000 to VW to build a car of the future in the Polo.

VW, true enough, could set up here like Toyota and Honda in a non-union environment. Or, as is likely the case just go to Mexico. The CAW has thousands of laid off, qualified members that are looking at the decimation of their pensions and ultimately work as assembly starts to move to US plants, which it will. Or the Detroit Three simply cease to exist altoghter.

As, ultimately, will the CAW cease to exist. That is the reality.

The guys at VW can read, and seeing the CAW pulling a Kruschev, continually slamming their shoe into a desk over BILLIONS in obscene profit made in Canada, being 'FURIOUS' at pension reductions they agreed to...do you think ANYONE wants to come here to build ANYTHING?

These are desperate times for people in many industries, just one of which is auto manufacturing. The only purpose of my post is to suggest that whatever 'worked' in the past will not work going forward.

The CAW can either reinvent itself as likely the single largest employment placement agency in Canada, or cut deals like they did with Manga where strikes are outlawed but the CAW can collect dues.

This is Ken's chance to take the non-union member's perception of unions being anti-business into a realm of getting people into work. And I think propositioning themselves to government in that fashion will ensure that the union can survive in some new form.

Very well put.

Chrysler and GM are being forced to reinvent themselves. It change the culture of the past that caused them to fail in order to survive in the future.

The CAW needs to do the same. This isn't "anti union" its "anti old union way". Surely there are unions that are partners with their employers..forward thinking progressive unions that contribute to the success and survival of their industry.

GM had a problem with leadership. They were too stuck in the past and its lead to them being on the brink of displaying. The CAW is in the same boat. There needs to be some forward thinking. For example they don't need to promise to never Unionize a new plant. But in order to attract someone to use a former Union plant verses the alternative of leaving 1000s unemployed they could offer to relinquish the right to automatically unionize any plant that fills that space. If they are confident in the benefits of the CAW let someone bring in a few thousand jobs. Run the plant for a few years then since the CAW is so beneficial surely the workers will vote to join in 3 or 5 years. Lose a battle to win the war. But this type of forward thinking will never happen. Why?

Look at who their leader is:

Quote

Ken Lewenza, Sr. (b. 1954 in Windsor, Ontario, Canada) is the National President of the Canadian Auto Workers union, having been acclaimed at that organization's national convention on September 6, 2008. He was previously the president of the Canadian Auto Workers, Local 444 in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. He replaced Buzz Hargrove as the union's national president.

Lewenza was born in Windsor, a middle child among eight. His father, Bill Lewenza, was a longtime steward and committeeman with Local 444.

Lewenza dropped out of high school after Grade 10, at age 16, worked in a gas station, got married the next year, and had a son when he was still 17.

In 1972, he went from the $1.65-an-hour minimum wage job at the gas station, to a $4.48 job on the chassis line at Chrysler Canada's Windsor automobile assembly plant. For the first three years he was in the plant, Lewenza father was still there, serving as a committeeman. His father advised Lewenza to be careful about getting involved in the union, urging him instead to focus on his young family.

Lewenza, however, was undaunted. In 1975, he became an alternate to an elected steward, taking over for the steward whenever he was away from the job. That allowed Lewenza to prove himself to the other workers, and in 1978, he was elected a full-time steward.

Lewenza was elected committeeman in 1983, representing about 1,000 workers in the minivan plant, and plant chairman in 1987, around the time his father died. When local president Ken Gerard died suddenly in 1990, vice-president Larry Bauer took over as president and Lewenza became vice-president. When Bauer died four years later in 1994, Lewenza moved up once again, becoming the local president.

A high school dropout who's been a union man pretty well since birth. Indoctrinated into the Union way in 195 nearly 25 years ago. Think the world has changed since then? A guy who was specifically tagged by the former president Buzz Hargrove to continue his way of doing things. A union in and of itself is not good or bad. Its the way they do things that is good or bad. This is 2009 you need someone of the modern world to lead you forward. To be forward thinking about how they can maintain their Union over the next 25 years. Not how to hang on to the way things were 25 years ago.

Honda Owner · « **Reply #9 on:** April 18, 2009, 03:32:55 pm »

What we are about to see is a cleansing of what should have been cleaned up a long time ago. The day of six litre (or bigger) trucks being used as cars is over. Done. Finished. Same for six litre cars, whatever the stripe. People can gripe and moan over it, but the fat lady has already sung.

Unfortunately, the majority of the Big 2.1 production in Canada is for these dinosaurs and like the dinosaurs, they are going extinct. Various governments cannot and should not pump tax payer money into companies that do not want to make products people want to buy. How many readers here can afford to first buy a 5.7 litre Chrysler 300 and then afford to drive it? Well, the answer is very few.

So Chrysler and GM will go bust. But this factory space will be used to build cars because the car market in Canada is not going away. It will be bought up by other companies but this will not happen until they can get labour at a real market rate, which is what the two most successful auto manufacturers in Canada pay, $57 an hour. This is reasonable for what they do and the two aforementioned car companies have far greater job security. It's market, supply and demand.

Really, at the end of the day, it is amazing Chryco lasted as long as it did. I would know since I worked fixing their junk for seventeen years. No company should have ever gotten away with making products as bad as the Intrepid and the LeBaron. I see the vans surviving and maybe the trucks in a limited way.

Times, they are a changin' that's for sure!

safristi · « **Reply #10 on:** April 18, 2009, 05:33:50 pm »

..tha REAL LETTER....................Dear LEZ, U were GREAT in BED BUT now we have to PART ways BIG TIME....@ $24 an hour..............ta
Barrie 9,000 Workers.......

barrie1 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2009, 10:15:58 pm »

They pay $57. per hour at the moment but it won't stay that way for long if they get busy and just wait until they have some retire's to look after as well. The costs will go up and unless they try to kill them off by working them to death at a early age. If they don't pay the health care for their retire's as well "YOU WILL" as these folks will need more health care as they get older as well. That statement was very well done except for the part where they say never Unionize. Truth is as its only for a year to allow them to get going if the staff want it at that time. Other wise its total Union bashing as stated as usual by jealous people. Ken Lewenza has 25 years experience in the Union and knows what he is doing. How many years does the writer have and does he really know anything about Unions and even why they were formed to begin with. Even his job which may not be Unionized has benefitted by the Unions been active wether he realizes this fact or not. Many safety laws and standards have been brought in by their existence alone as well as wage increases in other work sectors also. If its good for a auto worker its always been good for the trades around them as well in getting more money from their employers also. Their fight is also for you in other trades as when will they start on you next and wouldn't you like our support to back your point as well. We've only been paying heavy taxes for slightly over 100 years in Canada which is longer then many of your trades have existed as well.

Honda Owner · « **Reply #12 on:** April 20, 2009, 01:14:04 am »

Quote

If they don't pay the health care for their retire's as well "YOU WILL" as these folks will need more health care as they get older as well

Barrie, we have a national health insurance system here in Canada. The auto companies pay supplemental health benefits such as Blue Cross. The savings on health insurance is a major reason the Big 2.01 produce cars in Canada, it saves them money.

Quote

but it won't stay that way for long if they get busy

The Toyota and Honda plants in Ontario employ almost as many workers as GM and Chrysler (30,000 vs 40,000) and have never taken a dime of corporate welfare. They also produce the two most popular cars sold in Canada. They are busy and they have not ever laid a worker off.

Quote

We've only been paying heavy taxes for slightly over 100 years

If you did some research, you would find that heavy taxation in Canada only started in WWII. That is not 100 years.

Barrie, the number of workers for GM and Chrysler in Canada is only about 40,000, a pretty small number out of a working population of around 22,000,000 people.

Quote

Ken Lewenza has 25 years experience in the Union and knows what he is doing.

I heard the same thing when Burrard Yarrows was shut down here on the West Coast in 1992. Fact is, Chrysler is not going to survive in its present condition, nor is GM. Workers are either going to share the costs of downsizing or lose their jobs. Nothing is going to change that, Barrie. GM and Chrysler and all but bust and living on the largess of the taxpayer. For what we have pumped into them up until now, we could pay every employee to stay home on full pay for the rest of their lives. Even if we did, they would still go bankrupt.

Many, many years of bad decisions on the part of the companies and the union are now coming home to roost. Time to face facts, Barrie. There are about 30 days until both companies go bust.

ovr50 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 20, 2009, 10:28:04 am »

Quote from: barrie1 on April 19, 2009, 10:15:58 pm

They pay $57. per hour at the moment but it won't stay that way for long if they get busy and just wait until they have some retire's to look after as well. The costs will go up and unless they try to kill them off by working them to death at a early age. If they don't pay the health care for their retire's as well "YOU WILL" as these folks will need more health care as they get older as well. That statement was very well done except for the part where they say never Unionize. Truth is as its only for a year to allow them to get going if the staff want it at that time. Other wise its total Union bashing as stated as usual by jealous people. Ken Lewenza has 25 years experience in the Union and knows what he is doing. How many years does the writer have and does he really know anything about Unions and even why they were formed to begin with. Even his job which may not be Unionized has benefitted by the Unions been active wether he realizes this fact or not. Many safety laws and standards have been brought in by their existence alone as well as wage increases in other work sectors also. If its good for a auto worker its always been good for the trades around them as well in getting more money from their employers also. Their fight is also for you in other trades as when will they start on you next and wouldn't you like our support to back your point as well. We've only been paying heavy taxes for slightly over 100 years in Canada which is longer then many of your trades have existed as well.

No one on here makes statements better than "yesterday's man"....I may be older, but you are a dinosaur. Will you ever wake up to today's realities....

Doubt it.

Thinking Out Loud · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2009, 05:47:24 pm »

Quote from: Thinking Out Loud on April 14, 2009, 12:03:49 pm

Quote from: dorin on April 13, 2009, 11:18:13 pm
That's just retarded. I can't believe people on this board at so virulently anti-union as to use every opportunity to indulge in union-bashing.

The CAW does what it does for its members. Suggesting that it should voluntarily commit organizational suicide is nothing but insultingly moronic.

There is 'anti-union' and then there is 'pro-worker'. I'm a bigger fan of the latter. $3,000,000,000 in money to Chrysler to build ecological dinosaurs under threat of 'punishing Canada' and pulling out of operations (which will likely be bankrupt shortly anyway) or $3,000,000,000 to VW to build a car of the future in the Polo.

VW, true enough, could set up here like Toyota and Honda in a non-union environment. Or, as is likely the case just go to Mexico. The CAW has thousands of laid off, qualified members that are looking at the decimation of their pensions and ultimately work as assembly starts to move to US plants, which it will. Or the Detroit Three simply cease to exist altoghter.

As, ultimately, will the CAW cease to exist. That is the reality.

The guys at VW can read, and seeing the CAW pulling a Kruschev, continually slamming thier shoe into a desk over BILLIONS in obscene profit made in Canada, being 'FURIOUS' at pension reductions they agreed to...do you think ANYONE wants to come here to build ANYTHING?

These are desperate times for people in many industries, just one of which is auto manufacturing. The only purpose of my post is to suggest that whatever 'worked' in the past will not work going forward.

The CAW can either reinvent itself as likely the single largest employment placement agency in Canada, or cut deals like they did with Magna where strikes are outlawed but the CAW can collect dues.

This is Ken's chance to take the non-union member's perception of unions being anti-business into a realm of getting people into work. And I think propositioning themselves to government in that fashion will ensure that the union can survive in some new form.

Oh well (and what coulda been)

:

Volkswagen confirms investment in Mexico

Wolfsburg, Germany - Volkswagen has confirmed its plans to invest US$1 billion in its plant in Puebla, Mexico, (Oshawa, Canada) to expand (secure) production facilities and develop a new model.

Volkswagen de México (of Canada) made the announcement in the presence of Mexican president Felipe Calderón (Prime Minister Harper), confirming (amending) an announcement of the company’s intentions made in February 2008 by Prof. Dr. Martin Winterkorn, chairman of the board of management of Volkswagen AG.

Construction has already begun (will soon begin) on the new production facilities, which will start assembling a new model built exclusively for global markets from mid 2010. The growth of the Puebla (Oshawa) plant will allow Volkswagen to increase its daily capacity by 300 units to 2,100 vehicles.

The plant expansion will cost $410 million. The remaining investment is earmarked for supplier tooling, and in particular for development of the new model, in which Mexican (Canadian) engineers play an instrumental role.

The announcement in Puebla (Oshawa) is part of a larger North American strategy. In 2011, a new plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee (Windsor, Ontario) will start production and will produce 150,000 vehicles a year, with a car specifically designed for the North American market. The company said it plans to sell 800,000 Volkswagens in the U.S. by 2018.

toolatecrew · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2009, 07:21:35 am »

I don't think Canada ever had a shot at that Mexico plant. Even if the CAW were to fold up and die it would still be cheaper to build cars in Mexico.

I agree that the Chattanooga plant we may have been able to compete for that but who knows what US "stimulus" packages were at play for that.

Thinking Out Loud · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2009, 07:47:07 am »

Perhaps.....but Honda and Toyota made the business case to do it and didn't go the Mexican route.

Share a Billion off of Chrysler's stay-here funding and you've got some decent direct stimulous there plus known, experienced, award winning employee base.

Trying and not winning is better than not trying at all, plus the problem is the Buzz baggage it comes with.

initial_D · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2009, 11:55:11 am »

Share a Billion off of Chrysler's stay-here funding and you've got some decent direct stimulous there plus known, experienced, award winning employee base.

That don't mean jack! With simple repetitive type of work, a monkey can be trained well enuff to do it. ... and they won't go on strike for whatever meaningless garbage reasons.

toolatecrew · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2009, 12:25:47 pm »

Quote from: Thinking Out Loud link=topic=62054.msg 593426#msg 593426 date=1248349627

Perhaps.....but Honda and Toyota made the business case to do it and didn't go the Mexican route.

Share a Billion off of Chrysler's stay-here funding and you've got some decent direct stimulus there plus known, experienced, award winning employee base.

Trying and not winning is better than not trying at all, plus the problem is the Buzz baggage it comes with.

VW already has an established manufacturing base in Mexico.VW is Mexico's #2 largest Automaker.

Even a Non Unionized Canadian plant has no chance of competing cost wise. VW has been manufacturing cars for a long time in Mexico. They obviously are confident that the Mexican autoworker can build a car if not as well as a Canadian one very close at a fraction of the cost.

Frankly being an experienced Autoworker really isn't big an attraction. There is a learning curve to a new process. The productivity between a Mexican worker trained from scratch on installing VW fenders and that of a GM worker retrained to install fenders after a year would be negligible. Hew the new worker might be better as they wouldn't need to unlearn 20 plus years of doing it "another way"

Don't take this to mean that I don't agree with the intent of the letter suggested. If we were competing against the US for say Mazda 3 production then by all means a non union agreement along with the ability to use an existing plan to land would be a nice carrot.

But I'd hardly blame Unionization for the reason sub compact cars are not built in Canada (or US for that matter) by any manufacturer. Low price point items with low margins are never going to be made in Canada or US. That's why so much stuff is made in China. Its why GM imports the Aveo and and why they will import low end cheap cars from China. Even non union workers at $30 an hour plus benefits can't compete with $5 an hour workers in other countries regardless of the productivity gap. Quality gap is much less meaningful on cheap cars too.

safristi · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2009, 01:47:04 pm »

..IS NOT the QUALITY of the parts being assembled equally OR MORE IMPORTANT.....

.........we hear on this site quite often of the drive to the bottom by the Small 3 ...to save monies on PARTS...i.e the ACTUAL CAR U BUY......to allow health care..pensions..cost of living etc...etc... to stay put or even rise in cost......NOW $60 Billion and counting later................!!!!!!!! where are we........