Author Topic: The Beginning of the End for Chrysler in Canada? (Read 1772 times)

Trainman · « **on:** April 01, 2009, 08:48:23 pm »

You would think they would know if their parts supplier was laying off people that it would have an impact at the factories, but I guess maybe not

Parts shortage prompts shutdown at Chrysler minivan plant
Last Updated: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 | 3:28 PM ET
CBC News

Workers at Chrysler's Windsor, Ont., minivan assembly plant were sent home Tuesday night and Wednesday morning because of a parts shortage.

The shortage is due to an interruption in supplies from manufacturer H.E. Vannatter in Wallaceburg, Ont., where about 100 workers were laid off on Monday.

"If not resolved, this parts interruption could affect production at our Brampton [Ontario] assembly plant and other Chrysler facilities in North America," Chrysler said in a statement.

The automaker said it is currently seeking to relocate production of the parts, which include die-cast aluminum engine and transmission brackets, to its casting plant in Etobicoke, Ont.

CAW Local 444 president Rick Laporte said Chrysler is hopeful it will have enough parts for the afternoon shift.

tpl · « **Reply #1 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:04:28 am »

An industry guy (Gerry Fedchun, president, Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association) interviewed on BNN said that some smaller parts makers were supplying only on a cash basis to Chrysler as their own banks would not extend them credit to cover waiting for Chrysler to pay them.

http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip156526

Trainman · « **Reply #2 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:27:05 pm »

And now this, how much longer can they hang on?:

Chrysler, CAW suspend talks
Last Updated: Thursday, April 2, 2009 | 1:58 PM ET
The Canadian Press

The Canadian Auto Workers union and Chrysler have suspended official negotiations as the cash-short automaker focuses its efforts on working out a critical alliance with Italian automaker Fiat.

CAW president Ken Lewenza said he believes Chrysler is focusing on the Fiat discussions because labour talks are "secondary" to the partnership, which many say is essential to Chrysler's survival.

Lewenza said the union and the company are keeping the lines of communication open, but face-to-face meetings have been suspended for now.

Governments in Canada and the U.S. told Chrysler and General Motors earlier this week that they hadn't met the requirements for long-term bailout loans.

GM was given 60 days to come up with a new plan, while Chrysler was given 30 days to cement the Fiat alliance.

A partnership with Fiat would give Chrysler access to smaller car technology that the Detroit-based auto company currently lacks.

safristi · « **Reply #3 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:34:43 pm »

F.I A.T fack it again TranspoCanada........................so i have ta wait 3 years ta getta Punto or a 500 gogomobilia look a lika good deal ta ME.......................

wot elsa is Milliona TRilliona Lira BUY eh!! aah!!........maybe a nice castela gondolfo...........is tha Papa ein Berliner???

toolatecrew · « **Reply #4 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:42:58 pm »

So they shut down for a day. They already chopped an entire shift because of declining demand. At peak demand Chrysler had between 44 and 51 days supply of Mini vans sitting around.

Now its probably higher (but I can't be bothered to find out). They could close down for a week and it wouldn't even dent things. Something tells me if you walk into a Dodge dealer in a month they won't be telling you "Sorry you are out of luck we only have one Caravan left if you want it you need to pay full retail"

PArts manufactures depend on Chrysler paying their bills to pay their workforce to make the parts. If Chrysler is dragging out their payments its big trouble.

Accounts receivable from Chrysler are not worth squat if a parts supplier wants to use them for collateral.

safristi · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:52:44 pm »

..CUT to the chase 30 days "GRACE..Gracia in Italian!!???

" and 60 Days fer GM...........Hell Congress and the White HOUSE couldn't pass a STOOL in that time frame.............read between the lines ..........CHRYSLER GONZO....GM CHPT 11 verse and hymnal.................praise be to...........take yer pick.................green cars and butterflys...CAFE limits or latte.....one half of Gov is counteracting the other...............they wanna "rescue" AMERICUN Manu's butt! they keep putting roadblocks in their way.....gettin' INVOLVED in the niceties of running a CAR CO and dictating who will run them and what they will make and do.............then sopping up to the Unions and pushing C.A.F.E restrictions et al.....................WDF......have tha lunatics taken over the Asylum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DockMan · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:02:16 pm »

Quote from: Trainman on April 01, 2009, 08:48:23 pm

The shortage is due to an interruption in supplies from manufacturer H.E. Vannatter in Wallaceburg, Ont., where about 100 workers were laid off on Monday.

That's right near me. Trucks are lined up right now to pull tooling and parts out of the building, but afaik they are still sitting empty. Chrysler has used their suppliers to cashflow their business and now it is coming home to roost. You have to have money to put into escrow with the court to repo tooling when they are in payment arrears. Good luck.

articsteve · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:12:05 pm »

Currently Canadian Chrysler retires get full health coverage when the travel or reside outside of Canada. My mother, 87, no health issues on record is visiting my sister for 2 weeks in KY, USA. CCA travel insurance Plan A plus for those that are familiar with CAA over 54 plans is $240.

Granted most Canadian Chrysler retires are dead at that age, but take the average guy 65 to 70 and the majority of those will be on numerous meds for high blood pressure, prostrate cancer, diabetes, whatever. You get the picture. The costs to the company must be astronomical. The union says absolutely no to changing the legacy costs. In addition, all retires receive full drug and dental.

So when the company throws out the hourly rate at $79 per hour it's not that far out due to the legacy costs.

It's definitely game over for Chrysler. Classic example of unions committing suicide. BTW, Federal Government retirement benefits are the same.

DockMan · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:24:02 pm »

Quote from: articsteve on April 02, 2009, 04:12:05 pm

Currently Canadian Chrysler retires get full health coverage when the travel or reside outside of Canada. My mother, 87, no health issues on record is visiting my sister for 2 weeks in KY, USA. CCA travel insurance Plan A plus for those that are familiar with CAA over 54 plans is $240.

Granted most Canadian Chrysler retires are dead at that age, but take the average guy 65 to 70 and the majority of those will be on numerous meds for high blood pressure, prostrate cancer, diabetes, whatever. You get the picture. The costs to the company must be astronomical. The union says absolutely no to changing the legacy costs. In addition, all retires receive full drug and dental.

So when the company throws out the hourly rate at $79 per hour it's not that far out due to the legacy costs.

It's definitely game over for Chrysler. Classic example of unions committing suicide. BTW, Federal Government retirement benefits are the same.

They'll be singing solidarity forever as they march off the cliff......"Give me union utopia or give me death!"

PJungnitsch · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:29:49 pm »

Quote from: articsteve on April 02, 2009, 04:12:05 pm

So when the company throws out the hourly rate at $79 per hour it's not that far out due to the legacy costs.

That said, the companies knew this was going to happen eventually when they signed the workers up with these contracts, it wasn't something unexpected. When the big money was being made, enough for Chrysler to have a huge nest egg and for GM and Ford to buy up half the world, why wasn't enough set aside and invested then to cover these pensions?

articsteve · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:48:26 pm »

Because upper management is also self serving If the top 20 decision makers are bringing in 2 MILLION a year they know, if they as a group, go for the nuclear option resulting in a year long strike the company will go bankrupt. So what does one do? If I knew that I could ring 5 years additional salary out of the company for a total of 10 MIL before it collapsed I would be inclined to take that route over bankruptcy.

Essentially, for the domestic auto manufactures it's been every man for himself; the American way: individualism. The Japanese operate on a collective basis far from individualism. Hence their management has never been paid insane amounts and decisions are based on what's good for the company's future, not what one's stock options will be worth in x amount of months.

When the big money was being made, enough for Chrysler to have a huge nest egg and for GM and Ford to buy up half the world, why wasn't enough set aside and invested then to cover these pensions?

To answer your question more specifically: when the domestics expanded it was all financed. None of them have made big money for at least the last 10 years at which time the Japanese started gaining and the US health/legacy costs went thru the roof (health care in the USA is increasing at 10% per year) What money they did make was paid out in dividends to shareholders. Last year GM was still paying a dividend and it lost 38 Billion. Wagner paid himself at least 8 Million. The companies were run by self serving ppl with the exception of Chrysler whose German masters realized it was hopeless.

tpl · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2009, 05:02:55 pm »

This is the super new Fiat car that Chrysler will be selling.... a car that makes the Multipla look good. No problem with Fantino if you drive one of these.

Fiat Qubo 1.3 16v MultiJet Dynamic

Engine 1248cc, four cyclinders
Power 75bhp @ 4000rpm
Torque 140 lb ft @ 1750rpm
Transmission five-speed manual
Fuel 62.8mpg (combined)
CO2 119g/km
Acceleration 0-62mph: 16.5sec
Top speed 97mph
Price £12,350

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article6028723.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

sailor723 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2009, 05:40:20 pm »

Great....now they'll be able to get back into NASCAR in a big way

dr_spock · « **Reply #13 on:** April 04, 2009, 06:48:34 pm »

Wouldn't you like to see a Multipla racing series.

Maybe the Chrysler designers can help with Fiat's exteriors designs.

mmret · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2009, 12:47:29 am »

Quote from: tpl on April 04, 2009, 05:02:55 pm

This is the super new Fiat car that Chrysler will be selling.... a car that makes the Multipla look good. No problem with Fantino if you drive one of these.

Fiat Qubo 1.3 16v MultiJet Dynamic

Engine 1248cc, four cyclinders
Power 75bhp @ 4000rpm
Torque 140 lb ft @ 1750rpm
Transmission five-speed manual
Fuel 62.8mpg (combined)
CO2 119g/km
Acceleration 0-62mph: 16.5sec
Top speed 97mph
Price £12,350

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article6028723.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

Still breaks the Fantino Limit by 6 km/h...

But at 16.5 to the century mark...at least you won't be accused of the "racing" part of that ridiculous law.

tpl · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2009, 05:31:24 am »

Quote from: dr_spock on April 04, 2009, 06:48:34 pm

Wouldn't you like to see a Multipla racing series.

Maybe the Chrysler designers can help with Fiat's exteriors designs.

yes but the REAL multipla. you know, the attractive one

sailor723 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:14:10 am »

Quote from: tpl on April 05, 2009, 05:31:24 am

Quote from: dr_spock on April 04, 2009, 06:48:34 pm
Wouldn't you like to see a Multipla racing series.

Maybe the Chrysler designers can help with Fiat's exteriors designs.

yes but the REAL multipla. you know, the attractive one

Oh, no question.....Chrysler will be back in the black as soon as that hits showroom!

tpl · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:24:28 am »

Quote from: sailor723 on April 05, 2009, 07:14:10 am

Quote from: tpl on April 05, 2009, 05:31:24 am
Quote from: dr_spock on April 04, 2009, 06:48:34 pm
Wouldn't you like to see a Multipla racing series.

Maybe the Chrysler designers can help with Fiat's exteriors designs.

yes but the REAL multipla. you know, the attractive one

Oh, no question.....Chrysler will be back in the black as soon as that hits showroom!

I have driven one of those, a 1.9 gas engined one, and it is quite nice to drive actually.

sailor723 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2009, 08:08:14 am »

That may well be but I have to shake my head at the whole "Fiat will save us " con Chrysler is trying to run.

Even if Fiat models would give Chrysler a viable model line up in the car market (and I'm not sure they would) it's very unlikely that they can survive for the 2+ years it would take to get them here

tenpenny · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2009, 08:42:30 am »

For me, the somewhat amusing part is that amongst the discussion about Chrysler abandoning Canada, the whole Fiat thing is based on the fact that it's a Canadian who has saved Fiat, who is now expected to save Chrysler.