Topic: Recommendations for a good all-season tire

[curls]

Found out today that my wifes' car, which runs Nokian Hakka 1's in the winter (and is a tank with them on!), had a problem with the LF tire -- a flat spot about the size of my hand.    The rest of that tire, and all 3 other tires, are 100% fine.  Since these are out of production and have been for a while, getting one replacement tire would be next to impossible.

So, seeing as though the car also needs new summer rubber, we have decided to comprimise and get 4 all-season tires.  Up until now she's been driving 75km round trip, 24/7/365, but with the arrival of our second child in May, she'll be opening a home daycare and will be lucky to put on 10,000km in the coming year.  Hence our decision to comprimise -- if the weather is nasty, she'll stay home, no biggie.

Can you give me some recommendations for good performing all-season tires that won't get her stranded in some snow/slush?  We were thinking of getting Kumho KU25's for $125 each, installed and balanced, but I'm not sure if they're up to handling some snow at all.

Tire sizes are 195-50-16, or 205-50-16.  Either one works.

Or... know anyone with a spare 195-60-15 Nokian Hakkapellita 1 kicking around?

[mmret]

I had a set of Bridgestone Turanza EL 400s briefly on yee old Grand Am. Didn't get stuck in the snow any more. They seemed alright. The tread pattern is fairly blocky which certainly helped. Fuel economy is prob not the greatest.

Whatever you do, don't get Bridgestone RE92s, Goodyear Eagle RS-As, or Michelin MXM4s!

[curls]

I had a set of Bridgestone Turanza EL 400s briefly on yee old Grand Am. Didn't get stuck in the snow any more. They seemed alright. The tread pattern is fairly blocky which certainly helped. Fuel economy is prob not the greatest.

Whatever you do, don't get Bridgestone RE92s, Goodyear Eagle RS-As, or Michelin MXM4s!

Had RS-A's on my Integra YEARRRRRS ago and they were death in the lightest of drizzles.  And the MXM4's were on the TSX when I got it but I had them replaced as part of the terms of sale.  Also very, very poor tires for anything other than a leisurely Sunday drive in 25*C and clear sunny skies.

[Shnak]

Hence our decision to comprimise -- if the weather is nasty, she'll stay home, no biggie.

You shouldn't compromise with safety, especially with children on board.

Winter tires aren't only for when th weather is nasty, they're also for when it's COLD... A/S tires freeze up like hockey pucks when it's cold.

Bad move, IMO.

[toolatecrew]

Hence our decision to comprimise -- if the weather is nasty, she'll stay home, no biggie.

You shouldn't compromise with safety, especially with children on board.

Winter tires aren't only for when th weather is nasty, they're also for when it's COLD... A/S tires freeze up like hockey pucks when it's cold.

Bad move, IMO.

How is staying home if the weather is abad a compromise? Staying home is safer than any any snow tire in the world (although most accidents occur in the home :-))

Do you have data to support your balanket statment that ALL A/S tires become as hard as hockey pucks when it becomes "cold"?

Winters are best but not everyone has unlimited funds to spend on tires for a car that CAN safley stay home when you know there is or will be snow.

[curls]

Hence our decision to comprimise -- if the weather is nasty, she'll stay home, no biggie.

You shouldn't compromise with safety, especially with children on board.

Winter tires aren't only for when th weather is nasty, they're also for when it's COLD... A/S tires freeze up like hockey pucks when it's cold.

Bad move, IMO.

Trust me, after many winters with two cars runing dedicated (and good quality) winter tires, this crossed my mind.  But, family and vehicular needs have changed and will permit simply NOT DRIVING when the weather is cold, snowy, icy, etc.  The fact of the matter is that her car will basically be used for groceries once or twice a week, running the odd errand, and that's about it.  And, if the weather doesn't cooperate, she can take my car with the winter tires, or, she can stay home.

So, back to the question at hand...

[Shnak]

Simply saying "I'll stay home when there's snow" is a huge misconception. You live in Ottawa, and it gets pretty cold around here for long stretches... A/S tires lose a lot of their traction as the temperature lowers... it's not only a matter of driving in the snow.

But whatever... it's not my family, why would I care!?

Oh, and buying a decidated set of winter tires doesn't cost much more than using the same set of tires year round...

[curls]

Simply saying "I'll stay home when there's snow" is a huge misconception. You live in Ottawa, and it gets pretty cold around here for long stretches... A/S tires lose a lot of their traction as the temperature lowers... it's not only a matter of driving in the snow.

But whatever... it's not my family, why would I care!?

Oh, and buying a decidated set of winter tires doesn't cost much more than using the same set of tires year round...

I've driven on all-seasons in the winter before, in Thunder Bay, where it averages about 10*C COLDER than Ottawa in the winter.  With controlled speed, there wasn't a big problem at all.  The fun in Ottawa is the freezing rain, and that's where winter tires shine IMO.  And yes, buying dedicated winter tires IS more expensive if you don't likely plan on keeping the car for more than 2-3 years anyhow to get full value from both new sets.

Again, back to the question at hand... what are some good ALL-SEASON tires to look into?


By the way, Shnak, why would I trust your opinions of "safe" when you are asking about running winter tires year-round?  You realize that winter tread compound is so soft that it becomes unstable, very hot (prone to blowouts), and is very squirmy (hardly safe for handling!)?  All credibility you had on tires and safety is now GONE in my opinion.  http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,61529.0.html

[Cudworthhab]

Why not just look at the Canadian tire Motomaster SE . I read a lot of reviews on the web site so I bought some.

[curls]

Why not just look at the Canadian tire Motomaster SE . I read a lot of reviews on the web site so I bought some.

Not available in the required size.

[Shnak]

By the way, Shnak, why would I trust your opinions of "safe" when you are asking about running winter tires year-round?  You realize that winter tread compound is so soft that it becomes unstable, very hot (prone to blowouts), and is very squirmy (hardly safe for handling!)?  All credibility you had on tires and safety is now GONE in my opinion.  http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,61529.0.html

The difference is that I would never dare to even contemplate carrying children in my vehicle... My wife's vehicle will always have proper tires, you can be certain of that.

[toolatecrew]

By the way, Shnak, why would I trust your opinions of "safe" when you are asking about running winter tires year-round?  You realize that winter tread compound is so soft that it becomes unstable, very hot (prone to blowouts), and is very squirmy (hardly safe for handling!)?  All credibility you had on tires and safety is now GONE in my opinion.  http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,61529.0.html

The difference is that I would never dare to even contemplate carrying children in my vehicle... My wife's vehicle will always have proper tires, you can be certain of that.

So having your vehcile blow a tire or veer into oncming traffic and killing a vanfull of OTHER peoples kids is OK ? You want to critisize someone who wants to buy All seasons and leave the car home if it snows but you want to run for 2 years year round on the cheapest winter tires out there?

Pot meet kettle.

You are comparing someone possibly driving with non optimum tires for what maybe a few times over a couple month compared to you driving probaly 10,000KM on non optimal for condition tires?

[Shnak]

Which is exactly why I informed myself to make sure that driving winter tires year-round was safe enough... And from what everyone has told me, it's perfectly safe to do so providing I don't drive aggressively. Driving hockey pucks during winter, even if only twice a month, isn't safe, no matter how you cut it.

[toolatecrew]

Which is exactly why I informed myself to make sure that driving winter tires year-round was safe enough... And from what everyone has told me, it's perfectly safe to do so providing I don't drive aggressively. Driving hockey pucks during winter, even if only twice a month, isn't safe, no matter how you cut it.

Simply saying "I won't drive aggressivley is a huge misconception. "

You could be required to avoidance manuvers at any time. That's "agressive" driving.

Spin it anyway you want drving on tires made for cold temps and snow traction all year round is not the best thing you can do for saftey. You are not being safer than someone who chooses to drive in cold temperatures a few times a winter on All Seasons by driving 10,000km on tires designed for cold temperatures and snow , with wide goves that make them squirmy and a lower speed rating.

No one said "it's perfectly safe to do so providing I don't drive aggressively"

Here are some quotes:

You do have to consider the performance deficits and risk of a blowout due to the softer rubber

I doubt the winter tires on the Accent are performance winter tires, if not the handling and braking on dry pavement would be , ummmm, less than optimal in the summer.  They're just not made for that.ote]I doubt the winter tires on the Accent are performance winter tires, if not the handling and braking on dry pavement would be , ummmm, less than optimal in the summer.  They're just not made for that.

All the other comments about it being "fine" were in reference to how long they will last.

Drving on winters all year is very poor for saftey. Tires are your only contact with the road. Don't try to lecture people about saftey if you are going to use tires that wear fast,heat up, are more suceptible to bowout, ,give poorer traction (increading breaking distance) and give poorer handeling for accident avoidence all year round just to save a few bucks.

[Shnak]

Alright, mr. know-it-all... show me ONE article where driving winter tires during the summer are said to be the cause of an accident... I'm sure I won't have a problem to find 10 articles where bad tires were the caused for accidents during winter...

I'll read a bit more on driving winters during the summer... if safety really is an issue, I'll most likely end up buying all-seasons after all... if the only problem is durability, then I may not care too much...

EDIT: found this in forum somewhere... and it makes a lot of sense to me.

Make sure that the tires have the proper air pressure. Check them frequently. For most cars and tires, normal is 29-31 psi. If the pressure, before you start driving is less, they do not have enough air, and you risk a blowout. If the pressure increases while you are driving, they are heating up. If they get too hot, you risk a blowout. Stop and let them cool. This is mainly an issue if you are driving long distances at high speeds (i.e., highway driving). If you are driving only a few miles locally and start at the proper pressure, you should be fine.

I seriously doubt that I'll have problems running my winter tires considering my drive to work is something like 12km, all city driving.

I think you need to check your head if you seriously think that driving A/S tires in the middle of winter is just the same as driving winter tires in the summer. That's just looking for an argument, IMO.

[toolatecrew]

Alright, mr. know-it-all... show me ONE article where driving winter tires during the summer are said to be the cause of an accident... I'm sure I won't have a problem to find 10 articles where bad tires were the caused for accidents during winter...

I'll read a bit more on driving winters during the summer... if safety really is an issue, I'll most likely end up buying all-seasons after all... if the only problem is durability, then I may not care too much...

Glad you asked. Here is one right from this very website:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/2006/060630-1.htm

Summary:

The tests showed that emergency braking distances increased up to 30 per cent with winter tires; to successfully perform the same evasive actions, drivers had to slow down considerably with winter tires over all-season tires. Vehicle handling is far superior with a car equipped with summer or all-season tires in warm weather.

Many people mistakenly believe that they will save money by keeping their winter tires on their vehicle all year long," says Sophie Gagnon, Director, Public and Government Relations, CAA Quebec. "Not only are they putting their safety and that of the other road users at risk, but they are also unaware that this type of tire, which is designed to be used in cold weather, will wear out more quickly when used on a warm surface

Some more reading although it isn't quite on point since they tested an H rated high performance snow tire: http://autos.aol.com/article/car-news/tire-test/20061213170309990002

The Snow tire was surprisingly good in the wet. It was a full second slower than the All Season in the dry and they noted that the snopw tire showed substantial wear and tear after the track day in 7o  degree heat heat compared to the Akll season.

[DKaz]

Why can't you get a used winter tire with similar tread left? A look at craigslist will find lots of onesies going for cheap. Your car's handling will be completely out of whack if you have one A/S tire.

[Shnak]

Interesting article, but I don't see where they determined that winter tires were the cause of an accident during the summer...  

Look, my car doesn't have ABS, EBD or any other gadget that now exists, and it only has 13" wheels... I'm sure it's braking distance already isn't very good... what's an extra 30%? Of course I'm gonna have to drive carefully with these, but longer stopping distances isn't really a worry.

I'm still not sure how this thread became a winter tires discussion... if you want to continue that, head over to my own thread on the subject and let this poor guy here find his A/S tires for winter driving...

[toolatecrew]

Alright, mr. know-it-all... show me ONE article where driving winter tires during the summer are said to be the cause of an accident... I'm sure I won't have a problem to find 10 articles where bad tires were the caused for accidents during winter...

I'll read a bit more on driving winters during the summer... if safety really is an issue, I'll most likely end up buying all-seasons after all... if the only problem is durability, then I may not care too much...

EDIT: found this in forum somewhere... and it makes a lot of sense to me.

Make sure that the tires have the proper air pressure. Check them frequently. For most cars and tires, normal is 29-31 psi. If the pressure, before you start driving is less, they do not have enough air, and you risk a blowout. If the pressure increases while you are driving, they are heating up. If they get too hot, you risk a blowout. Stop and let them cool. This is mainly an issue if you are driving long distances at high speeds (i.e., highway driving). If you are driving only a few miles locally and start at the proper pressure, you should be fine.

I seriously doubt that I'll have problems running my winter tires considering my drive to work is something like 12km, all city driving.

I think you need to check your head if you seriously think that driving A/S tires in the middle of winter is just the same as driving winter tires in the summer. That's just looking for an argument, IMO.

You need to seriously check your head if you think driving EVERY DAY on winter tires all year round is the same as occasionally driving on all seasons when the roads are clear and dry in the winter with the option of leaving the car home entirely if its not safe.

Interesting article, but I don't see where they determined that winter tires were the cause of an accident during the summer...  

Look, my car doesn't have ABS, EBD or any other gadget that now exists, and it only has 13" wheels... I'm sure it's braking distance already isn't very good... what's an extra 30%? Of course I'm gonna have to drive carefully with these, but longer stopping distances isn't really a worry.

I'm still not sure how this thread became a winter tires discussion... if you want to continue that, head over to my own thread on the subject and let this poor guy here find his A/S tires for winter driving...

I don't know it must be in the same articles that attribute all the accidents to driving All Seasons on clear dry pavement but cold temperatures?

The fact that your car's stopping distances are not good to start makes the loss of traction due to snows even more apparent.

If your car requires 45 meters to stop from 100 kph a 30% increase means it will take you an extra 13.5 meters to stop. That's roughly an extra 5 car lengths. That's a HUGE difference. If you don't think 30% isn't a huge difference in a panic situation you are crazy.

Driving carefully is not a substitute for improper tires. Yo can be as careful as you want but when a kid runs out in the road, a car swerves in front of you or the car in front slams on his brakes your careful driving doesn't matter.

Its not a winter tire discussion. Its a safety discussion. Practice what you preach. If you are concerned about safety (as you imply with the crisis of someone using All Seasons on clear dry cold days) then you should also practice proper safety and remove winter tires when winter is over. Why can you compromise safety to save some $ but not others?

[weebl]

With low kms put on, there is another option to consider, though that might be hard to get at this time of year.  One of our vehicles now sees limited kms, not enough to justify 2 sets of tires in my mind.  We already have 2 sets from when the car saw many more kms, but of course, tire replacement time will be approaching in a couple of years.

My solution?  The Nokian all-weahters are nice, but ridiculously expensive, so not an option for me.  Instead, I'm planning on getting H-rated winter tires, and using them year round.  The tires' lives will be over in time long before they are over in treadwear, so I see no problem there.  Vehicle is primarly used in the city, and mostly at speeds under 80 anyway, so accelerated wear on a hot summer day at high speed isn't a concern.  Plus being H-rated will mean that compounds are a little harder and more wear resistant than on a lower speed rated winter tire.

I figure out of all the tires out there, the Hankook Icebear W300 is the best bet, and I've heard others use this (and other h-rated winter tires) all-year round with no issues.  Essentially, that's what Nokian did - took an h-rated winter tire and branded it as "all-weather."