Author Topic: ESC Proposed for all cars/light trucks effective September 1, 2011 (Read 1478 times)

Trainman · « **on:** March 13, 2009, 06:16:32 pm »

So all those who hate the electronic baby sitters have 1 1/2 years to get one without. Or better yet, use the 75 day public comment period to get your point across.

Transport Canada to require lifesaving vehicle stability control system
Last Updated: Friday, March 13, 2009
CBC News

Transport Canada is proposing to require the installation of a $450 electronic system that helps drivers keep control of cars and trucks in situations such as skids.

If the proposed regulation is adopted, all light vehicles sold after Sept. 1, 2011, will have to have electronic stability control (ESC), a system that compares the driver's steering and the direction the vehicle is heading. When they do not match, ESC will automatically activate the brakes on one or more wheels for a short time, reduce engine power, or both.

Transport Canada said that, based on 2006 data, if ESC was installed on all Canadian vehicles, there would be at least 225 fewer deaths and 755 fewer people seriously injured each year.

Government data "indicates that vehicles equipped with ESC were involved in approximately 30 per cent fewer severe collisions involving loss of control than non-ESC equipped vehicles," the department said in a news release Friday.

The system is estimated to cost $450 as a stand-alone item, the Transport Canada website said.

Transport Canada has been testing ESC since 2004 and in June 2007 declared the results "very impressive." The delay in proposing that ESC be required in new cars was a result of time needed to harmonize Canada's rules with automakers' and other countries' practices, Transport Canada said.

ESC helps drivers keep control in emergency manoeuvres, such as swerving or braking to avoid an obstacle, and cornering on slippery surfaces.

"This safety feature is already available on many new models," and the government recognizes it saves lives, Transport Minister John Baird said in a news release.

The proposed regulation will be published in the Canada Gazette on March 14, starting a 75-day period when interested parties can comment to Transport Canada.

sailor723 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2009, 06:47:28 pm »

I believe this has been in the works for some time now. I think it has a lot to do with keeping safety regs in sync with the US. They have already announced that ESC is mandatory as of the 2012 model year.

Given the stats I read on the US proposal it sounds like a fine idea to me. (at least as important as airbags or ABS)

ovr50 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2009, 06:49:28 pm »

I have no problems with that regulation. I have had ESC in a number of the latest vehicles we have had and think the benefits far outweigh any disadvantages.

Trainman · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2009, 06:51:35 pm »

Quote from: sailor723 on March 13, 2009, 06:47:28 pm

I believe this has been in the works for some time now. I think it has a lot to do with keeping safety regs in sync with the US. They have already announced that ESC is mandatory as of the 2012 model year.

Given the stats I read on the US proposal it sounds like a fine idea to me. (at least as important as airbags or ABS)

I agree to its importance and yes it has been talked about but this seems to be the beginning of the formal process to get it into law. We finally have a drop dead date to look forward to, no more conjecture.

Snowman · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:01:34 pm »

Any ECU is reprogrammable by a tuner

dr_spock · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:03:54 pm »

If it can lower auto insurance rates, then why not?

Snowman · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:06:04 pm »

Some of us like driving sideways.

Winklovic · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:07:26 pm »

Quote from: dr_spock on March 13, 2009, 07:03:54 pm

If it can lower auto insurance rates, then why not?

Nothing can lower insurance rates.

ovr50 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:09:17 pm »

Quote from: Snowman on March 13, 2009, 07:06:04 pm

Some of us like driving sideways.

True, but you can do it intelligently, this law is aimed at Mickey and Minnie.

Besides you can turn it off or program around it - so no worries.

Squishy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:18:27 pm »

I thought the US proposal went into effect this year or in 2010. No?

I have no problem with ESC; helps keep the car from going sideways. You drifters will have to take advantage of the public comment period.

tpl · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:38:23 pm »

Quote from: Squishy on March 13, 2009, 07:18:27 pm

I thought the US proposal went into effect this year or in 2010. No?

I have no problem with ESC; helps keep the car from going sideways. You drifters will have to take advantage of the public comment period.

I think the USA is phasing in. 30% of new cars this year, 40% more the next year and then 100% in 2011 or something like that.

My last two cars have had it with a defeat switch. The BMW... had to have it turned off to manoeuvre in deep snow, the GTI I have found no reason to turn it off yet.... but that only one winter.

So I am happy that it will be standard equipment on all cars.

Undoubtedly, SOMEWHERE in the software of one or other of the onboard computers there will be a boolean that can be patched into the other state for cars that don't have a switch. If there is no user accessible switch I'd bet that there will be a couple of points on the PCD than can be jumpered.
No sensible engineer would not do that if only for testing.

Snowman, it may well NOT be in the ECU. The ECU may just take a set of input values that contain the throttle back command. The real works of this might be in the ABS computer or even in another processor which directly reads the required inputs. I think my 330xi had a separate computer for this that read body yaw rate, speed, steering wheel angle and then sent signals. But that was a 2003, probably designed in 1999 so it was a old design.

Squishy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:45:58 pm »

Does ESC throttle back? I know traction control will do that. I thought ESC was just in the braking system. If it throttles back, then BOOOOOOO.

Snowman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2009, 08:00:35 pm »

Quote from: ovr50 on March 13, 2009, 07:09:17 pm

Quote from: Snowman on March 13, 2009, 07:06:04 pm
Some of us like driving sideways.

True, but you can do it intelligently, this law is aimed at Mickey and Minnie.

Besides you can turn it off or program around it - so no worries.

I’m glad that Becky has ESC; my wife has been in a few bad situations this winter where it has saved her from an accident. I just told her to hang on and don’t do anything and let big brother take control and straighten the vehicle out. She is a big believer now and it does compensate for her lack of accident avoidance skills

tpl · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2009, 09:03:24 pm »

Quote from: Squishy on March 13, 2009, 07:45:58 pm

Does ESC throttle back? I know traction control will do that. I thought ESC was just in the braking system. If it throttles back, then BOOOOOOO.

I think most do now.

PMREdmonton · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2009, 09:31:02 pm »

Finally the Canadian government has done what they should have done long ago - this is a basic public safety issue and these things will save alot of people from major injury and death. As others have pointed out, it will follow Transport Canada's policies over the last few years of harmonizing our standards with Americans which should lower production costs overall in the long run.

Trainman · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2009, 11:42:42 pm »

Quote from: tpl on March 13, 2009, 09:03:24 pm

Quote from: Squishy on March 13, 2009, 07:45:58 pm
Does ESC throttle back? I know traction control will do that. I thought ESC was just in the braking system. If it throttles back, then BOOOOOOO.
I think most do now.

On the Forester the ESC is part of the entire package and yes, power can be reduced as well as brake applications. Or turn it off.

quadzilla · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2009, 11:51:51 pm »

Quote from: PMREdmonton on March 13, 2009, 09:31:02 pm

Finally the Canadian government has done what they should have done long ago - this is a basic public safety issue and these things will save alot of people from major injury and death. As others have pointed out, it will follow Transport Canada's policies over the last few years of harmonizing our standards with Americans which should lower production costs overall in the long run.

this is a basic public safety issue

I think the real issue is the crappy drivers behind the wheel.

Squishy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2009, 05:06:44 am »

I hate the feeling that happens when traction control throttles back - it's very counter-intuitive. I guess you might get used to it after driving the same car for a while, but I have borrowed cars with TC and it felt like I was driving on ice - except the wheels weren't sliding. I kept giving it more gas and it kept throttling back, until I noticed a TC OFF button.

It would be nice if the nannies that interfere with driving feedback would bring up a small light on the dash when active. At least ESC throttling back should be limited to conditions of understeer/oversteer, instead of pulling away at a light.

tpl · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2009, 06:11:56 am »

Quote from: Squishy on March 14, 2009, 05:06:44 am

I hate the feeling that happens when traction control throttles back - it's very counter-intuitive. I guess you might get used to it after driving the same car for a while, but I have borrowed cars with TC and it felt like I was driving on ice - except the wheels weren't sliding. I kept giving it more gas and it kept throttling back, until I noticed a TC OFF button.

It would be nice if the nannies that interfere with driving feedback would bring up a small light on the dash when active. At least ESC throttling back should be limited to conditions of understeer/oversteer, instead of pulling away at a light.

Both the cars I've had with esc have had a bright light that comes on when the esc is intervening. Not always easy to see past these big steering wheels with their airbags.

safristi · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2009, 12:32:47 pm »

......