Topic: Without concessions, Chrysler may close Canadian plants

[Trainman]

Even Crysler admits their quality is subsatndard and will take and I quote "a number of years" to fix.

Everyone admits it but you.

There are companies that make higher quality products, like Ford.  But there are also companies that make worthless and unreliable cars... Suzuki, VW, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda.. and I don't hear you complaining about them.

If they wanted 2 bliion dollars in bailouts to maintain tain 8000 jobs in Canada I'd compain about them. That's not even a good try

If you want to provide some evidnce that say Mazda makes worthless unreliable cars I'd be interested in seeing it.

Just a little side trip here: there is an organization here in BC that finances coastal logging contractors.  Their finical backers back east got into trouble so handed off the debt to an asset liquidation company, who has now called the debt or wants 39% interest.

The debt is 13 million that is owed.  And if it is not paid, 3,000 direct coastal forestry jobs will be gone.

Pretty good return for the number of jobs saved vs what Chrysler wants for saving 8-10,000 direct jobs.  Sad thing on the coast there is a good chance that there will be no bailout or even someone to offer security on that debt, so bye bye 3,000 jobs.  All for the want of a fraction of what is offered to Chrysler.

Thanks for listing, now to get back on topic   

[ovr50]

Good point, Trainman. 

[Patate]

Patate - "But there are also companies that make worthless and unreliable cars... Suzuki, VW, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda.. and I don't hear you complaining about them."

Since you are once again spouting pure nonsense, you need to back up such statements with a reference or a link. You KNOW Chrysler is the bottom of the heap, and each of the makers you quoted is well above them. Is this more of your knee-jerk reactions or do you have a reference. If not,

I'll start with JD power, even if the methodology is somehow flawed: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-jd-power-vehicle-dependability-study/1439579/

Then there's truedelta.

To be honest though, lots of those surveys have different conclusions, but they all point out serious quality flaws from automakers like Volkswagen. 

Don't get me wrong, the interior fit and finish, and driving dynamics of a VW are very good, but the rest is just awful.  The most reliable mazdas are the Fords (B-series, and Tribute).  Those ones improve the average because what comes from Japan lacks quality.  Again, the car drives well, has nice fit and finish but that's it. The average customer doesn't know anything about cars, but is image-centered"sp".  Imports are considered as cool, so he (or often she) buys one.  The ad says zoom zoom, ITS GOT TO BE FAST 

Then, what's the problem with Chryslers interiors? I KNOW they're not of good quality, but neither are Toyotas, Hondas or Nissans for that matter.  Ever sat in a Camry? it is awful.  Or a Sienna? worthless.  my mother owns one, the interior is disgusting and you can't even say it's reliable..it's had tons of stupid problems (sliding doors stopped working, brakes were finished after 60 000 km, transmission slipping, etc..)  My 2000 cirrus had its ball joints changed, and that's it.  Apart from maintenance, I have put no money on it.  I doubt the Sienna will last 120 000 km.  It is an overpriced overrated piece of .

Back to topic.. I'm not saying Chrysler is on the top in terms of quality, but there are much worse car companies on the market right now.  And instead of always telling me to link something to prove everything I say, how about you do the same about the nonsense you say or simply prove me wrong?  Or maybe I need to troll spray you to calm you down? Toolatecrew seemed to have responded well.

[carcrazy]

Man, if you truly believe that Honda Accord interior for example is comparable to a Sebring, there is no point for anyone to argue with you anymore.
BTW, I own a Mazda3 made in Japan and it has been very reliable after 4 years; the interior is mint and it doesn't have any rattles, any trim falling off, etc. Does this count as a contra-argument for your statement that the cars coming from Japan lack quality? I guess not, but I though I would mention it anyway.

[rrocket]

Man, if you truly believe that Honda Accord interior for example is comparable to a Sebring, there is no point for anyone to argue with you anymore.

You can't reason with trolls.....stop trying....

[ovr50]

JDPower materials are next to worthless, especially for Reliability. Try Consumer Reports Reliability History for more accurate and less flawed reporting. Take a look at the CR rankings and you get a much different picture. And CR is best available, although none are perfect.

You didn't provide anything from TrueDelta other than their name? IIIRC, the TrueDelta samples are still much too small to draw conclusions from.

The rest of your post is purely anecdotal incidents, which prove exactly zero. Funny that so many ppl are wrong about the Sienna, and you are right? Worthless? Do you think so?   Others don't (and I am not a Toyota fanboy either, although I do have one, very reliable but somewhat boring). Camry? Not my choice, but thousands like it. You don't. Who is right? Why do the Japanese cars get consistently good ratings for reliability, and you say they are junk? Who are we to believe, you? I doubt it. I'm beginning to think you don't know much about cars, other than continuing to spout off your domestic union-based biased comments. Must work for Chrysler....yes?? If so, hope you saved your nickels, as you may well be out of work.

And that troll spray, keep it for yourself, might improve your posts.  

[Trainman]

....

  Or a Sienna? worthless.  my mother owns one, the interior is disgusting and you can't even say it's reliable..it's had tons of stupid problems (sliding doors stopped working, brakes were finished after 60 000 km, transmission slipping, etc..)  ....

Our 2004 Sienna (US built) has had almost no issues.  The only serious one was a leaky rad that ended up being replaced at no cost to us despite it being out of warranty.  The interior has taken a beating from the kids and their friends and keeps on ticking, amazing what a good shampoo will do    No trannie issues at all, no issues with any body hardware, no issues with the motor, no issues with the electronics, no issues with premature tire wear, (  reminder to me, get wheel alignment as they have not been done since bought), no brake issues.  You get the picture.

Maybe its the way your mom looks after her vehicle and drives it?  I know someone who has the get new brakes every year (15-20,000 km) because of the way they drive their car, its brutal but that's just the way they are.  That does not mean the car is junk.

[sailor723]

It doesn't really matter what any of us think about Chrysler's quality (or lack thereof).This is a company that has not been able to compete in the marketplace and who's financial position is such that they can no longer continue to operate.

[toolatecrew]

It doesn't really matter what any of us think about Chrysler's quality (or lack thereof).This is a company that has not been able to compete in the marketplace and who's financial position is such that they can no longer continue to operate.

You are correct it doesn't mattter what any of US think about quality.

The US Government panel that determines the bailout loans does though. They think that Chrysler quality lags too far to get the loan. Chrysler ITSELF admits their quality lags and will take "A number of years" to bring up. What any of us think doesn't matter. The people who matter have spoken. They think Quality is below average CHRYSLER agrees with them.

Its like if you need a heart transplant to keep living. The qualification for a heart transplant is that you not smoke. The doctors tests show you soke. You ADMIT you smoke.

The fact that a couple of your freinds have not seen you smoke doesn't change anything.

Chrysler doesn't and has not met the criteria for the loans. Its not my opinion. Its fact.

[airbalancer]

Even Crysler admits their quality is subsatndard and will take and I quote "a number of years" to fix.

Everyone admits it but you.

There are companies that make higher quality products, like Ford.  But there are also companies that make worthless and unreliable cars... Suzuki, VW, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda.. and I don't hear you complaining about them.

If they wanted 2 bliion dollars in bailouts to maintain tain 8000 jobs in Canada I'd compain about them. That's not even a good try

If you want to provide some evidnce that say Mazda makes worthless unreliable cars I'd be interested in seeing it.

Just a little side trip here: there is an organization here in BC that finances coastal logging contractors.  Their finical backers back east got into trouble so handed off the debt to an asset liquidation company, who has now called the debt or wants 39% interest.

The debt is 13 million that is owed.  And if it is not paid, 3,000 direct coastal forestry jobs will be gone.

Pretty good return for the number of jobs saved vs what Chrysler wants for saving 8-10,000 direct jobs.  Sad thing on the coast there is a good chance that there will be no bailout or even someone to offer security on that debt, so bye bye 3,000 jobs.  All for the want of a fraction of what is offered to Chrysler.

Thanks for listing, now to get back on topic   

I wonder if the MPs in area have made that point  in question period 
Sound like a worthy use of tax payers money

[Trainman]

Just a little side trip here: there is an organization here in BC that finances coastal logging contractors.  Their finical backers back east got into trouble so handed off the debt to an asset liquidation company, who has now called the debt or wants 39% interest.

The debt is 13 million that is owed.  And if it is not paid, 3,000 direct coastal forestry jobs will be gone.

Pretty good return for the number of jobs saved vs what Chrysler wants for saving 8-10,000 direct jobs.  Sad thing on the coast there is a good chance that there will be no bailout or even someone to offer security on that debt, so bye bye 3,000 jobs.  All for the want of a fraction of what is offered to Chrysler.

Thanks for listing, now to get back on topic   

I wonder if the MPs in area have made that point  in question period 
Sound like a worthy use of tax payers money

Oh they know.  The forest industry has been in trouble for a few years now.

What I am hearing recently though is a lot more anger at the Feds as more money is proposed to bail out the auto industry.  The forestry types have never asked for bailouts, and what few have happened have not been very successful (anyone remember Skeena Cellulose?).  But they are getting real PO'd about this entire auto industry aid, and with good reason.

[ovr50]

According to the Globe&Mail, over 70% of the US pop is opposed to the auto bailouts, period. The US Congress, and by extension, the Cdn Parliament, needs to be concerned about the feelings of the people in this. I think this is the main reason that Obama and his Admin have taken a hard line recently. It's a knife-edge for Obama in that he "owes" a lot of votes to the swing states, and the Blue collar areas like Michigan. Thus, he cannot be overly soft (the general pop will revolt), nor can he be too tough and contribute to huge job losses (the blue collar sector generally support him and the Dems).

Not an easy situation to be in.

[airbalancer]

But they are not doing a good job of marketing their problem as this is the first time I have heard about loan being called
 forest industry is have a hard time across the nation,
It is about getting your story out

[tpl]

If one was going to be cynical:    The state of the Forestry industry may make no difference to which Federal party becomes the next Canadian Government but the Auto inductry is concentrated in Ontario where the votes are.

[toolatecrew]

If anyone has a copy of this months Annual CR Auto Issue can you please post a copy of the "who makes the best cars chart) I believe it was page 15. I was reading it today in the Grocery store while waiting in line.

Chrysler was rated DFL. Far behind any other manufacture. The only car company to receive a score below 50%. The only company that had 0% for recommended models by CR from the quick glance I saw. Pretty enlightening.

[airbalancer]

If one was going to be cynical:    The state of the Forestry industry may make no difference to which Federal party becomes the next Canadian Government but the Auto inductry is concentrated in Ontario where the votes are.

i guess there is only 3 seats in Northern Ontario so PC really do not care