Kia Forte

[dougjp]

Is this the first model from Kia that upstages its counterpart over at Hyundai? And will this mean an improved Elantra soon WITH the option of an even stronger engine than this 2.4L? Seems logical that they would do that.

Waiting for road test reviews of the SX 2.4L 6-speed. Performance of the suspension in both handling and ride is the question, and I'd be surprised if it matched the main competition like the Mazda3 or Civic.

[BernardP]

The Forte has been available for some time in Asia and Australia/New Zealand. It is known over there as the Cerato, and available with 1.6L and 2.0L engines. Here are a few reviews I found online:

http://community.mocca.com/articles/reviewer-kia-cerato-forte-value-its-forte?tribes=370

http://goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/RT/FE87D99B9343C8CACA257547000080DD_Our+Opinion?OpenDocument

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/story/first_drive_kia_cerato/

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/story/kia_cerato_test_drive/

http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/review.php?AID=96&PN=1

http://www.pressportal.com.au/news/462/ARTICLE/4636/2009-03-19.html

http://www.countrycars.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=61390&l=SA

http://www.countrycars.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=61390&pg=2

http://www.caradvice.com.au/21005/2009-kia-cerato-first-steer/

http://www.caradvice.com.au/22741/2009-kia-cerato-review-road-test/

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Comments are a bit all over the place, but seem to converge on the following:

--- surprisingly good suspension, roadholding and on-road quietness

--- steering is too light and lacks feel

--- engines don't feel as strong as their rated power would indicate

--- overall quality feel, but tinny doors.

--- 5-speed manual transmission is either notchy or slick (??)

--- 4-speed auto doesn't do justice to the car.

--- lots of room, great-looking inside and out, great value

I hope Canadian Driver will soon be able to present its First Drive review of the Forte.

[Seafoam]

 Saw  a few of these at the local kia dealership today. To me it looks like the elantra, nothing special. It is an improvement over the spectra though. I like the look of the headlight area [front end] better than the elantra.   

[Arctic_White]

Is this the first model from Kia that upstages its counterpart over at Hyundai? And will this mean an improved Elantra soon WITH the option of an even stronger engine than this 2.4L? Seems logical that they would do that.

Waiting for road test reviews of the SX 2.4L 6-speed. Performance of the suspension in both handling and ride is the question, and I'd be surprised if it matched the main competition like the Mazda3 or Civic.

The SX 2.4L 6-speed is about $20,000.  (!)  Car looks good as well, with more standard features (bluetooth, traction, leather, to name but a few) than my '08 Si.

Looking forward to some reviews as well.

[Jaeger]

Looks really good.  Reminds me a the current Civic coupe from this angle:

Agreed on both points.  "Civic" was my first thought.

Jaeger

[Cortina]

Looks really good.  Reminds me a the current Civic coupe from this angle:

Agreed on both points.  "Civic" was my first thought.

Jaeger

That's the first thing I thought and said too in another thread. Nicer looking than the Elantra. Too me it looks like a beef up Civic from the front. I not keen on the interior.

[carcrazy]

I sat in a base model on Saturday. I said before that I like the design overall, inside and outside, and this still stands, but I was curious about how it feels to sit in it. The base model was the only one in the showroom so this is what I looked at. The interior felt kind of cheap, and the 100% hard (cheap feeling) plastic door panels were the biggest offender IMO. Hell, even the elbow rest was hard as stone with no padding at all. I don't have a problem with the dash materials, although they are all hard plastic, as you don't touch them much if at all and they have some pleasant pattern, but I was reminded why I hate the non-leather steering wheels and gear shifter these days. They felt terrible and this is what you touch every time you drive the car. There are other trim pieces that I found cheap. For example the black trim between the front and the rear windows is rough to touch; just plain, rough, unpainted plastic. Usually this part is black painted and smooth to the feel.
I think a well equipped Forte, the SX model for example, with leather seats and perhaps some upgraded (padded) door panels, leather steering wheel and gear shifter would alleviate the cheap feel.
The switch gear and other bits are fine IMO. The seats are also cheap and unsupporting (I like firm and well bolstered seats), but I guess they are comparable with the seats in other base models. The upholstery was also kind of cheap, but to be expected for the trim level.

The Soul 4u which I also checked out suffered from the same thing - the door panels are terrible cheap and again no padding on the elbow rest. Other than that, it has a very reasonably done interior for a mainstream, inexpensive vehicle. I still didn't like the seats as they lack almost any bolstering, but they are acceptable for this kind of vehicle I guess.

[dougjp]

Thanks carcrazy for that mini review. Those details are, for some people, important things that subconsciously either drive a person crazy or make them content with ownership over time. The rock hard armrest, for example, would be a constant reminder to me that I didn't save enough $ when buying    . Car reviews about perceived interior quality never differentiate between different parts inside as you did, some visual only for the most part, and others tactile.

Hope you get a chance to look at, or better yet, test drive the SX 2.4L 6 speed and let us know what you think.   

[mmorriso]

saw on in the mall today.  seems quite a bit smaller than the newest civic/corolla/mazda3.  similar to how the sportage is smaller than rav4/cr-v and sedona vs. sienna/odyssey etc.  it may be cheaper than other compact cars but you get less car.  the forte would have been a standout if it was released back in 2003.  since then the bar has been raised substantially in the compact car segment and this model looks to just be keeping up.  reviews should be interesting.

 

[BernardP]

saw on in the mall today.  seems quite a bit smaller than the newest civic/corolla/mazda3.  similar to how the sportage is smaller than rav4/cr-v and sedona vs. sienna/odyssey etc. 

Looking at measurements, the Forte is almost exactly the same size than those 3: a bit more there, a bit less there. It is however smaller (outside) than the Impreza and Lancer, which are slightly bigger than others in their class.

The Forte might look smaller because of its styling.

I am scheduled for a test drive of the Forte EX and Forte SX, both with manual transmission, next Monday. I will try to post a report of my impressions.

Here is a comparative dimensions chart that was posted on another forum. Thanks conwelpic:

[BernardP]

Back to back test drives of the Forte LX 5-speed manual and SX 6-speed manual

I had an appointment this morning to test drive both EX and SX manual versions of the Forte. It turned out that there was no EX available, and I drove a base LX with the 2.0L and 5-speed manual. This is an acceptable subsitute for the EX, as LX and EX only differ in equipment level and tire size.

The test loop I chose was fairly complete, with a lot of badly broken pavement on local roads, followed by highway driving, including a long uphill section. I drove the test loop with the LX first, then switched to the SX and drove over the same course. Here are the highlights:

--- Engine: Although the 2.0L (LX EX) is adequate, the 2.4L in the SX feels markedly stronger. The difference in normal driving is low-end torque. There is not much below 3000 rpm with the 2.0, while the 2.4 has some grunt off the line and pulls strongly from 2500 rpm.

--- Transmission: Both the 5-speed (LX) and 6-speed (SX) are slick shifting. Throws are short and precise. The 5-speed has the 2.0L engine spinning at 3000 rpm at 120 kmh, which is perfect (not too tall), as there is still a decent throttle response available. On the 6-speed, 5th is almost the same as on the 5-speed, while the 6th gear drops revs to 2500 rpm at 120 km. On the long highway uphill climb, the 2.0 engine needs a downshift in 4th to built momentum, while the 2.4 engine is able to build up speed slowly in 5th.

--- Ride: Certainly the surprise of the day. The ride on both cars is tight and well controlled. There is no floating sensation. Even on the worst pavement sections, there was no bottoming of the suspension. The SX is set up just a bit tighter than the LX, but not excessively so, and remains comfortable. Steering feel is simply acceptable. It's not too light, but offers not much feel for road texture.

--- Tires: Major disapointment on the LX. The Hankook Optimo OEM tires are very noisy, even at low speed. My current winter tires are quieter than these tires. The salesman agreed with me on this. If I was to purchase the EX, which has the same tires, I would need to replace the tires with something better before taking delivery of the car. There is no tire noise problem with the upgraded tires (Goodyear Eagle LS2) on the SX

--- Noise: For its class, the Forte is commendably quiet, except for the tire noise noted above. The body feels rock solid and there was no rattle in the LX, and an occasionnal click coming from the rear seatback on the SX. No rattle in the sunroof.

--- Stereo: I didn't listen to the 4-speaker base stereo in the LX, but tried the 6-speaker premium stereo in the SX. I had brought with me a USB key with some music samples. The sound quality is very good for a factory radio in that class of cars. The bass is satisfying and the treble is clear, with ample sound level, at least for me. I could easily live with this stereo without feeling I need an upgrade.

--- Other impressions: Interior space is great for the class, visibility is excellent, as the seat can be raised to get a good view above the relatively low beltline. Windshield is steeply raked, so top of dash is deep. Leather seats in the SX look and feel good, while cloth seats on the LX have a nice pattern. No mouse fur on roof lining.

Verdict: I am ready to get the SX, as the 2.0 L engine is not powerful enough for my taste. I feel the SX is worth the $3000 price premium over the EX. As I'm not confident enough in Kia's resale value, I only want to lease the Forte, not buy it. Unfortunately, Kia only offers leases for 24-36-48 months periods. I would have been ready to discuss a 39 months to 42 months lease, but it's not available. I want the lease to end in early fall, not in the middle of summer. So I told the salesman that I would come back to see him in September.

[mmret]

Why 39 / 42 specifically? Its just 3 or 6 month difference?

[BernardP]

Why 39 / 42 specifically? Its just 3 or 6 month difference?

It's not a matter of payment, but rather of timing. I like to get myself a new car in the fall, or very early spring. If the lease expires mid-June, for example, I feel it's then too late to get the current year's model and it's obviously too early for the following model year. I was hoping to lease a Forte now and have the lease expire around October 2012, just in time to get into a new 2013. Considering that we are mid-May, 39/42 would be about the right period to get me to the Sept-Nov 2012 time frame. I can wait four months, as my current car is fine.

[rrocket]

It's not a matter of payment, but rather of timing. I like to get myself a new car in the fall, or very early spring. If the lease expires mid-June, for example, I feel it's then too late to get the current year's model and it's obviously too early for the following model year. I was hoping to lease a Forte now and have the lease expire around October 2012, just in time to get into a new 2013. Considering that we are mid-May, 39/42 would be about the right period to get me to the Sept-Nov 2012 time frame. I can wait four months, as my current car is fine.

Does ANYONE lease terms like that??

[toolatecrew]

Why 39 / 42 specifically? Its just 3 or 6 month difference?

It's not a matter of payment, but rather of timing. I like to get myself a new car in the fall, or very early spring. If the lease expires mid-June, for example, I feel it's then too late to get the current year's model and it's obviously too early for the following model year. I was hoping to lease a Forte now and have the lease expire around October 2012, just in time to get into a new 2013. Considering that we are mid-May, 39/42 would be about the right period to get me to the Sept-Nov 2012 time frame. I can wait four months, as my current car is fine.

Seems like a reasonable idea. They don't have a term you want so you will just wait the 4 months so that you will be able to have a lease that expires when you want. The Kia salesman is probably bummed becuase he might have lost a sale. Many things could change in 4 months. But KIa obvously has weighed the number of lost sales vs the cost of having more leasing terms avalable and determined which is bets for them. I don't blame them since it would cost more to have an infinite number of lease terms. I don't balame you becuase you aren't expecting them to and have a plan to wait the 4th months to make it work.

If you can wait it probably will work to your advanatge anyways. Incentives tend to get better after a car has been out a while rather than a new model.

Thnaks for your impressions I've been curious about this car and haven't seen many reviews so its nice to hear some impressions.

[BernardP]

Yes, I have often seen lease terms available at 6 months intervals. 24-30-36-42-48. The 39 months term is available from BMW and Mercedes-Benz, and also from Subaru.

The salesman explained to me that the lack of flexibility is related to the fact that Kia does business with a third party leasing company.

[mmorriso]

Why 39 / 42 specifically? Its just 3 or 6 month difference?

It's not a matter of payment, but rather of timing. I like to get myself a new car in the fall, or very early spring. If the lease expires mid-June, for example, I feel it's then too late to get the current year's model and it's obviously too early for the following model year. I was hoping to lease a Forte now and have the lease expire around October 2012, just in time to get into a new 2013. Considering that we are mid-May, 39/42 would be about the right period to get me to the Sept-Nov 2012 time frame. I can wait four months, as my current car is fine.

it must be a fantastic car since based on some modest calculations you are prepared to shell out over $15,000 to rent (lease) it over 3 years and then turn around and buy a new one in 2012 for over $25,000.  i guess timing is everything.  or am i totally off base?

[vdk]

Cars depreciate. What's your point? Owning the same car for 3 years will probably cost around the same amount of $$$.

[toolatecrew]

Why 39 / 42 specifically? Its just 3 or 6 month difference?

It's not a matter of payment, but rather of timing. I like to get myself a new car in the fall, or very early spring. If the lease expires mid-June, for example, I feel it's then too late to get the current year's model and it's obviously too early for the following model year. I was hoping to lease a Forte now and have the lease expire around October 2012, just in time to get into a new 2013. Considering that we are mid-May, 39/42 would be about the right period to get me to the Sept-Nov 2012 time frame. I can wait four months, as my current car is fine.

it must be a fantastic car since based on some modest calculations you are prepared to shell out over $15,000 to rent (lease) it over 3 years and then turn around and buy a new one in 2012 for over $25,000.  i guess timing is everything.  or am i totally off base?

Lease on the Forte is around $350 for 36 months. Its less expensive than a much less powerful Hinda civic for example. Don't really see your point. If he wants to lease and get into a new car in 3 years without worrying about selling his old one what's the big deal?

[dougjp]

Thanks BernardP for coming through with your review of the 2 models as you promised, and on the same day too. Its interesting that you found the interior satisfactory and without negative comments about the trim. Did you notice a big difference in the overall change in interior between the LX and SX?

I'm thinking this (the SX) will be a serious contender, on a value for $ spent basis in this segment, being $ 4k less than a similarly equipped Mazda3 sedan. However I'm still looking forward to comparison tests by the mainstream auto magazines.