Author Topic: CTC Review: 2009 Hyundai Genesis Sedan (Read 26448 times)

G35X · « **Reply #80 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:49:01 pm »

The best way to judge the image and, to a certain extent, quality of Hyundai cars is to go to places like Coquitlam (BC), Little Neck (NY) and Koreatown (CA). If you see many Hyundai’s and Kia’s there it is a good sign. To me at least in the past it seemed Korean Americans and Canadians avoided Korean cars even though they are fiercely nationalistic (of the country they or their parents left behind, that is). Maybe my observation is outdated since I haven’t been to those places in the past five years…

Cortina · « **Reply #81 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:39:20 pm »

I'm still a badge snob. I would not buy this car regardless of price. Hyundai are a budget brand, just like KIA is. You could loose a kings ransom driving this off the lot.

sirAQUAMAN64 · « **Reply #82 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:52:06 pm »

Quote from: mmret on January 21, 2009, 08:49:21 pm

Quote from: sirAQUAMAN64 on January 21, 2009, 02:08:43 pm
If spending $35-40,000 on a sedan, the Genesis would be at or near the top of the list. Similarly priced cars like the Pontiac G8 aren't as opulent, Avalon and Lucerne are boring and large bread 'n butter cars, while 3-Series/A4/Passat/C-Class are far smaller and less substantial... while costing more in some cases.

I have yet to inspect the interior of one - will soon - but understand the nitpicks which I've found in other Hyundais. I would have to see to what extent they jump out at me in this model. Yet despite them, the Genesis stands proud as a solid, roomy, upscale, substantial, powerful, high technology package at a fantastic price. A true RWD luxury car for the masses, rather than an option-laden somewhat ordinary vehicle passed off as one (Azera). And for that, I'd seriously consider one.

Okay, here's a Q for you then.

Assume you don't need that much space.

Genesis 3.8 with Tech Package $46.8k incl Freight
G37 with Touring/Tech Packages $48k incl Freight

Difference of $1.2k which you will probably recover at resale time, plus an extra 40 horses, probably a shade better handling. Genesis has size advantage though from what I understand the G37 is bigger than the 3/C/A4, and the Genesis possibly has an interior quality advantage (!!). Plus the badge thing if you care about that (most will, in reality).

Tougher to decide imo, but given that I don't need the space I'd go for the G personally. Either way these are imho the "awesome value" cars in this segment.

Aside: Genesis coupe will be hot hot hot.

EDIT: on the badge front....at my office despite that people are in general quite wealthy, there are more than a few Hyundai owners. Recent models it must be said.

Without having driven either, pretty sure I would buy the Genesis. It's more car, and more what I'm after. I'd likely rarely use the handling advantage in the G, but would apprecate the ride of the Genesis daily. I really dig this car and the badge doesn't bother me.

Nice catch on the Lexus clock Bobby

Juke1 · « **Reply #83 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:40:55 pm »

Quote from: Spec5 on January 22, 2009, 02:34:16 pm

carcrazy:

#8 is Hyundai, #9 is Mitsubishi

Sailor723:

See and I think those perceptions are already changing. A lot of people in my building ask me for my advice or will strike up a conversation about cars because they know thats what I'm into and most that I talk to would buy a Korean car before they bought a Chev, Dodge, or even a Ford (although I think Ford has really improved over the last 2 years). Nissan has really moved up most people's radar because they see them as a cheaper alternative to Honda and Toyota but because its still "japanese" the perceived quality is still there.

That would be less expensive

I hope you dont cut your own hair.....

kenm · « **Reply #84 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:41:57 pm »

Quote from: sailor723 on January 21, 2009, 09:29:54 pm

I think the whole Hyundai image thing is probably starting to become a generational issue. Many of us in the 45-50+ age range remember rusty Pony's and Stellar's where none of the power accessories worked,Excel's with clogged cat converters,early Elantra's with automatic tranny's only good for 15,000kms etc,etc. People in their 20's and 30's don't have this sort of baggage

In the early 70's, my step-father owned a Toyota Corona that was stricken by premature crankshaft failure. He still thinks Toyotas are junk.

KenM

rrocket · « **Reply #85 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:44:23 pm »

^^Yea..that's like Barrie. Had an early Honda that supposedly gave him problems...now Hondas are junk...LOL. Barrie is always good for a laugh though.....

Which is why I like him....

Alex_S · « **Reply #86 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:25:08 pm »

@ JT816
"Like I said Alex_S, Hyundai's "thing" is value and being the alternative to the mainstream vehicle. It works because it's thousands of dollars cheaper than its competition. I bet that most people who chose to buy a Sonata over a Camry or Accord did it as a matter of the car being cheaper or they couldn't afford the Camry or Accord or whatever their alternative might have been. If it was the same price, I have no doubt most would have jumped to another brand. You might be right that the quality of Hyundais have improved the last year or two (as part of their revamped lineup) but how do we actually know the quality over the mid-long term of these vehicles are improved when these cars are still only 1-2 years old? I remember the auto journalists, etc. saying the exact same thing back in 2002-2005 about all the new Hyundai vehicles at the time but as it turns out now, those vehicle qualities are still subpar. I think resale values are reflective of popular opinion since its supply and demand. Your Warren Buffet example is amusing to say the least because there are always exceptions and certainly the way Buffet acts is not even close to being indicative of the majority of rich people. Remember, I've always only suggested the "majority" of people throughout my posting and not said "all" people like you assumed I was saying."

Okay JT816 - However I believe there are many people who could have afforded to pay extra for a Camry or Accord but chose to go with a Sonata for whatever reason and not solely based on cost but, as you mentioned, VALUE. This concept of value is subjective in my opinion and not based solely on price. It also sounds like you are saying rich people don't find this concept of 'value' important as well. I say the rich often find it MORE imporant. I will venture a guess and say anyone who has their sights set on a BMW/MB will probably not cross-shop Genesis. However, there are some who might say 'Hey I can get a sedan that drives well, has as much interior space as a S-Class, award winning, powerful, has a solid warranty and looks nice for the price of a loaded 3-series.' And for the record, I never assumed you were referring to 'all' people. It is your reference to 'most' people that I find flawed. Your point about Buffet well taken but used as an extreme example - ironic that one of the richest folks in the USA doesn't drive a Maybach. There are many rich fold like Buffett who aren't caught up in badges - Sam Walton (Wal-Mart Founder) driving the same old Ford pickup, Steven Ballmer (Microsoft CEO) driving a Lincoln, Ingvar Kamprad (Ikea Founder) driving a 14-yr old Volvo 240 GL and the list will go on and on. This type of information substantiated by Thomas J. Stanley in his book entitled 'The Millionaire Next Door' which delves into the spending habits of the richest Americans. And no, I am not saying the richest American's will necessarily buy the Genesis either, but pointing out how some rich people spend money with respect to cars.

My point with all of this: The Genesis Sedan is really the vehicle that does the most to improve the brand of Hyundai. The Genesis Coupe is the next vehicle in the lineup that will build on that and a new Sonata (unveiled this year or next?) should also help carry momentum. Management at BMW/MB/AUDI are probably not shivering in their boots with respect to Hyundai right now and the Genesis will not take any significant market share from them. Having said that, I still believe there is a market for the Genesis and that this car is relevent.

rrocket · « **Reply #87 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:27:40 pm »

^^^^I think the Genesis Coupe will be the car that defines the "new" Hyundai. The Coupe will outsell the sedan by a large margin I would guess....and to the younger crowd too....

mmret · « **Reply #88 on:** January 22, 2009, 10:18:44 pm »

Perceptions do change with time, but I think that Hyundai has an issue in that they probably would speed things along by launching a Luxo brand, but then where does that leave Kia?

Perhaps Hyundai will become that Luxo brand and Kia the mainstream. That will take lots of time though, and I guess would involve dropping certain models from the Hyundai lineup. But this is not that hard to believe. Even their (revamped) website has a certain mature elegance to it now, whereas before it was brighter, colourful and more "fun" like the Honda/Toyota websites. Perhaps there is a campaign to not only change the image and bring things in line with the mainstream, but indeed to push Hyundai into the upper tier?

Hyundai moves up and establishes itself, clears room for Kia which gains trickle-down benefits. Patience, patience.

Brigitte · « **Reply #89 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:05:42 pm »

Quote from: Alex_S on January 22, 2009, 08:25:08 pm

@ JT816
"Like I said Alex_S, Hyundai's "thing" is value and being the alternative to the mainstream vehicle. It works because it's thousands of dollars cheaper than its competition. I bet that most people who chose to buy a Sonata over a Camry or Accord did it as a matter of the car being cheaper or they couldn't afford the Camry or Accord or whatever their alternative might have been. If it was the same price, I have no doubt most would have jumped to another brand. You might be right that the quality of Hyundais have improved the last year or two (as part of their revamped lineup) but how do we actually know the quality over the mid-long term of these vehicles are improved when these cars are still only 1-2 years old? I remember the auto journalists, etc. saying the exact same thing back in 2002-2005 about all the new Hyundai vehicles at the time but as it turns out now, those vehicle qualities are still subpar. I think resale values are reflective of popular opinion since its supply and demand. Your Warren Buffet example is amusing to say the least because there are always exceptions and certainly the way Buffet acts is not even close to being indicative of the majority of rich people. Remember, I've always only suggested the "majority" of people throughout my posting and not said "all" people like you assumed I was saying."

Okay JT816 - However I believe there are many people who could have afforded to pay extra for a Camry or Accord but chose to go with a Sonata for whatever reason and not solely based on cost but, as you mentioned, VALUE. This concept of value is subjective in my opinion and not based solely on price. It also sounds like you are saying rich people don't find this concept of 'value' important as well. I say the rich often find it MORE imporant. I will venture a guess and say anyone who has their sights set on a BMW/MB will probably not cross-shop Genesis. However, there are some who might say 'Hey I can get a sedan that drives well, has as much interior space as a S-Class, award winning, powerful, has a solid warranty and looks nice for the price of a loaded 3-series.' And for the record, I never assumed you were referring to 'all' people. It is your reference to 'most' people that I find flawed. Your point about Buffet well taken but used as an extreme example - ironic that one of the richest folks in the USA doesn't drive a Maybach. There are many rich fold like Buffett who aren't caught up in badges - Sam Walton (Wal-Mart Founder) driving the same old pickup to go hunting, Steven Ballmer (Microsoft CEO) driving a Lincoln, Ingvar Kamprad (Ikea Founder) driving a 14-yr old Volvo 240 GL and the list will go on and on. This type of information substantiated by Thomas J. Stanley in his book entitled 'The Millionaire Next Door' which delves into the spending habits of the richest Americans. And no, I am not saying the richest American's will necessarily buy the Genesis either, but pointing out how some rich people spend money with respect to cars.

My point with all of this: The Genesis Sedan is really the vehicle that does the most to improve the brand of Hyundai. The Genesis Coupe is the next vehicle in the lineup that will build on that and a new Sonata (unveiled this year or next?) should also help carry momentum. Management at BMW/MB/AUDI are probably not shivering in their boots with respect to Hyundai right now and the Genesis will not take any significant market share from them. Having said that, I still believe there is a market for the Genesis and that this car is relevent.

You are so entertaining, and in a class of your own.

Yes, people drive what they want to drive, regardless of disposable income. But that's not the issue here. The issue is PER-CEP-TION (trying to say it slowly so you understand).

But do feel free to augment your blood pressure by countless points, if that's what you feel you must do to get your point across.

rrocket · « **Reply #90 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:08:22 pm »

^^Sweet....I love her. So SASSY....

Alex_S · « **Reply #91 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:20:57 pm »

@JT816

Please note that I believe you bring up many valid points and that my comments were not meant to offend. I am simply looking to bring an alternate view. Ultimately, it comes down to numbers and I did a quick search to see how the Genesis has been doing since its introduction and came across this (I don't have time to cross check numbers with other sources but for the sake of argument, I will assume these are correct. If you can find contradicting info, please share) These numbers, however, paint an interesting picture:

Jan 12, 2009
The luxury car segment is dominated by a group of 'Made in Germany' limousines including BMW 5-series, Audi A6 and Mercedes-Benz E-Class. But there are also others top tier car models such Lexus GS, Cadilac CTS or Volvo S80 (etc..)

In the group of worlds finest limousines, how does the Genesis compete with the likes of BMWs, Audis and others? This time, we are not interested in characteristic numbers, but monthly sales statistics and that reveals Genesis sedan has done a great job in its first six months and figures show it already outperforms several more prestigious nameplates.

Despite a worldwide financial crisis, which has greatly slowed down the demand for luxury cars, the Genesis sedan has maintained its sales numbers above 1,000 units per month. Its sales were lower than 1,000 units only in its first month, when supply was still limited and dealers didn't have enough cars on their lots.

Since its introduction in July, the company has sold 5,127 units (until the end of November 2008). Even in December '08, in one of the worst sales months in the past 12 years, Hyundai moved 1,041 Genesis sedans from dealer showrooms! Its sales numbers are exceeding our expectations and by far surpassing sales predictions of those car enthusiasts that still don't consider Hyundai as a top-tier automaker.
(Table comparing Genesis sales versus 'peers')

GENESIS: Jul (619), Aug (1171), Sep (1029), Oct (1121), Nov (1151)
BMW 5-Series: Jul (4525), Aug (5287), Sep (2423), Oct (3958), Nov (2927)
MB E-Class: Jul (4938), Aug (2681), Sep (2968), Oct (2098), Nov (2264)
Audi A6: Jul (929), Aug (1520), Sep (1090), Oct (758), Nov (717)
Lexus GS: Jul (1297), Aug (1686), Sep (977), Oct (819), Nov (717)
Cadillac STS: Jul (1079), Aug (975), Sep (856), Oct (632), Nov (630)

Hyundai's U.S. vice president of marketing, Joel Ewanick says that over the past 90 days, the Genesis has sold at or near objectives and the company considers its performance to be a very healthy launch. The sedan went on sale in July, and dealers have shifted 6,538 units thus far, including 1,411 last month. Ewanick notes that fully 90 percent of all Genesis buyers are originating outside of the brand, including 40 percent that have traded in vehicles like Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche.

My spin: This article is certainly not inferring that Porsche or BMW owners will line up to trade in their vehicles as all it takes is one trade-in from each company to make the above claim. I think it shows that they are carving a nice little niche for themselves and have taken another step forward with respect to improving their brand.

vdk · « **Reply #92 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:38:23 pm »

Quote from: rrocket on January 22, 2009, 08:27:40 pm

^^^^I think the Genesis Coupe will be the car that defines the "new" Hyundai. The Coupe will outsell the sedan by a large margin I would guess....and to the younger crowd too....

Agreed. If the Coupe will be 'cool' enough for say.. 20+ year olds than Hyundai's image will definitely change. And it does look promising.

speed12sil · « **Reply #93 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:40:02 pm »

What I don't understand is why someone *new* here would go to such great lengths and spending so much time posting those long comments even though it brings little to no benefit. I'd have to say it's admirable(or incomprehensible?) to use up a lot of free time "just to present an alternate view".

Brigitte · « **Reply #94 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:40:38 pm »

Why do I get the feeling that I'm dealing with Sheldon on the "Big Bang Theory?"

Mitlov · « **Reply #95 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:46:28 pm »

The Genesis is outselling the A6...not a bad showing at all.

I agree with rrocket, though, that the Genesis coupe is going to be the huge sales success.

rrocket · « **Reply #96 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:52:05 pm »

Quote from: Mitlov on January 22, 2009, 11:46:28 pm

The Genesis is outselling the A6...not a bad showing at all.

I agree with rrocket, though, that the Genesis coupe is going to be the huge sales success.

Holy crap....what's that....two or three times now??

Alex_S · « **Reply #97 on:** January 23, 2009, 12:32:24 am »

@ Brigette:

You taking a swing at me? Not appreciating your condescending and patronizing smart-@ss tone.. You are going to have to read between the lines here Ms. Brigette Einstein. Try this as a concept: BRAND = PER-CEP-TION. This from Marketing 101 so go back to your textbook and look it up..

I will paraphrase for you Brigette and keep the above concept in mind:

The Genesis is the standout vehicle that will improve the BRAND of Hyundai (and this will IMPROVE PERCEPTION going forward - you following here??)

BMW/MB/AUDI are not shaking in their boots (this one perhaps a stretch for you but work with me here - 'Many luxury car buyers do not PERCEIVE a luxury Hyundai vehicle as a viable alternative to German luxury vehicles) but it is still relevant (to their overall strategy of moving upscale to improve the brand and - guess what Brigette - the overall PERCEPTION)

Listen, them be fightin' words so bring it on. I will go all day and all night.

Alex_S · « **Reply #98 on:** January 23, 2009, 12:47:58 am »

Quote from: speed12sil on January 22, 2009, 11:40:02 pm

What I don't understand is why someone *new* here would go to such great lengths and spending so much time posting those long comments even though it brings little to no benefit. I'd have to say it's admirable(or incomprehensible?) to use up a lot of free time "just to present an alternate view".

@ Speed12sil

because I can be stubborn.. I took the original personally but ultimately just wanted to present a different view, my view..
Yes, my comments certainly long winded and was just trying to be thorough but promise to keep them down going forward.

Mitlov · « **Reply #99 on:** January 23, 2009, 12:48:22 am »

Quote from: Alex_S on January 23, 2009, 12:32:24 am

@ Brigette:

You taking a swing at me? Not appreciating your condescending and patronizing smart-@ss tone.. You are going to have to read between the lines here Ms. Brigette Einstein. Try this as a concept: BRAND = PER-CEP-TION. This from Marketing 101 so go back to your textbook and look it up..

I will paraphrase for you Brigette and keep the above concept in mind:

The Genesis is the standout vehicle that will improve the BRAND of Hyundai (and this will IMPROVE PERCEPTION going forward - you following here??)

BMW/MB/AUDI are not shaking in their boots (this one perhaps a stretch for you but work with me here - 'Many luxury car buyers do not PERCEIVE a luxury Hyundai vehicle as a viable alternative to German luxury vehicles) but it is still relevant (to their overall strategy of moving upscale to improve the brand and - guess what Brigette - the overall PERCEPTION)

Listen, them be fightin' words so bring it on. I will go all day and all night.

You're going to last a long time here. And I'm the Prime Minister of Uzbekistan.