Topic: CD Article: Mini E electric car

[Autos_Editor]

First Drive:


It's cute, quiet, powerful, and emissions-free but the Mini E's rear seat has been sacrificed for its large battery.  Editor-in-chief Greg Wilson predicts BMW will put the Mini E into production in 2010 or 2011 - with a back seat.
 More: View the photos | All the First Drives

[Honda Owner]

This, my friends, is the future although the iMev in my opinion is better  because it is a clean slate design. I saw several prototypes running around in Tokyo when I was there earlier this year.

A small correction: the car does not have a transmission. It does not need one. Electric motors produce their maximum torque at 0 rpm and maintain it all the way to the redline.

Mass production will make electrics cheaper than gasoline engines, too since the drivetrain is infinitely less complicated, more than making up for the cost of  the batteries. None of the emission control stuff will be needed. No oil changes, no service to speak of.

However, I do not see electrics as feasible for everyone. For a person such as myself who lives in a mild climate and drives less than 200 km a week, and electric car would be ideal. For the 10% of Canadians who live in rural areas, gasoline will be around for some time I think.

[rrocket]

If it doesn't have a transmission, is it direct drive then??  Depending on how fast the output shaft of the electric motor spins, you'd have to have some type of reduction/multiplication to achieve any type of reasonable speed under electric power, no?? 

Even my primitive electric remote control cars I had as a kid had a gearbox (transmission).

[Honda Owner]

Depending on how fast the output shaft of the electric motor spins, you'd have to have some type of reduction/multiplication to achieve any type of reasonable speed under electric power, no??

There is a reduction gear set but a conventional transmission transmission that alters ratios is not necessary in an electric. The equivalent reduction in most electrics would be like locking a conventional manual transmission in second gear, about 12:1 overall.

[airbalancer]

If it doesn't have a transmission, is it direct drive then??  Depending on how fast the output shaft of the electric motor spins, you'd have to have some type of reduction/multiplication to achieve any type of reasonable speed under electric power, no?? 

Even my primitive electric remote control cars I had as a kid had a gearbox (transmission).

Could they be using a VFD?  http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/industrial/equipment/vfd/vfd.cfm?attr=24
They are used on air handling units and heat pumps

[tpl]

It would be interesting to add a  60 amp 240 V outlet in some old houses with only a 100 amp service.  I know you'd only use the recharging at night but even so... get an older  central ac switching on, even just a 2 ton unit and some older main breakers might well pop.

Now a 30 amp 240 volt charger to maybe take just 4-5 hours would be practical.


The question I always have with these electric cars.   What do you do if you live in an old area of a Canadian city like TO or Montreal and have to park on the street overnight.  I can't see any municipality  allowing heavy current 240 wires lying on the sidewalk. Or if you live in an apartment building.  I can see that the building owner could be persuaded to have separately metered outlets at each parking place.... but then you go away for the w/e and someone else sucks on your electricity   And so on.
Then of course those lucky suburbanites with their own drives and garages, well they have too long a commute to use a pure electric car anyway.

I think that EVs like the Volt with "range extenders"  must be the way to go in NA.

[Thinking Out Loud]

You are bang on - just like diesel and propane, infrastructure will be the problem of any 'new' power source. 

Green P Parking - how is THIS for tied marketng - here in Tdot could have electric vehicle only parking spaces tied into meters that would not just cover the cost of parking but also a plug for recharging.  How GREEN is that?

Most people likely in the downtown core (that I know) typically use public transit, with or without having a car or a parking space condusive to convenient recharging. 

Then you come back to the circular arguement that the fuel ecomony of a $9,995 Hyundai Accent with a 500k+ range on a tank is a better (cheaper?) investment than a 250k range $35,000 plug in with no supporting infrastructure (and emissions simply being generated elsewhere at a nuke or coal plant somewhere than at the tailpipe).

Would require some pretty substantial taxable benefits to whomever installs this electrical fuelling equipment tho....

[chrischasescars]

Depending on how fast the output shaft of the electric motor spins, you'd have to have some type of reduction/multiplication to achieve any type of reasonable speed under electric power, no??

There is a reduction gear set but a conventional transmission transmission that alters ratios is not necessary in an electric. The equivalent reduction in most electrics would be like locking a conventional manual transmission in second gear, about 12:1 overall.

I think any kind of gearing counts as a "transmission," even if it's not a type typically used in a car.

[tpl]

"
Most people likely in the downtown core (that I know) typically use public transit, with or without having a car or a parking space conducive to convenient recharging. "

TOL.   Those downtown people may not have ANYWHERE to recharge their weekend electric car if they have no offstreet parking... until such time as some public infrastructure is built.  In Cabbagetown or Riverdale many peopl cannot even guarantee to find a parking space close enough to their door for an extension cord.

[bmorton]

The driving range comparison is a bit off, since a regular Mini has a 50-litre fuel tank, not 40 as shown in the article's comparison chart. At one time Mini was erroneously publishing the size of the European Cooper's tank when referring to the North American model. So the numbers for the gas car should be 530-725 km, not 425-580. Around town I average about 650 km between fills in my 2008 Cooper.

Still, since this is a city car that you could essentially refill every single night, the range being somewhat less than half of the gas car probably isn't much of an issue for those whose lifestyle would be suited to the E.

[Thinking Out Loud]

"
Most people likely in the downtown core (that I know) typically use public transit, with or without having a car or a parking space conducive to convenient recharging. "

TOL.   Those downtown people may not have ANYWHERE to recharge their weekend electric car if they have no offstreet parking... until such time as some public infrastructure is built.  In Cabbagetown or Riverdale many peopl cannot even guarantee to find a parking space close enough to their door for an extension cord.

Aboslutely!  The majority of the polulation of any metropolitan centre that likely would benefit from short distance driving would not spend $35,000 because of the charging issue. Or weather conditions. 

They (BMW/Mini) should ensure they invest in some serious demographic/geographic modelling before setting sales targets.  Investing millions on a car that would only have any benefits 15% of N/A makes little sense - to your point that hybrids are the future.

Especially when manufacturers grouse about wasting/spending money on making a car world compliant both in the US and Europe that 'won't sell' in their opinion - like the Focus, or the Festiva, or the Polo......etc.  But certainly would outsell in substantially higher volues than an eMini ever would.

[Honda Owner]

Most people likely in the downtown core (that I know) typically use public transit, with or without having a car or a parking space conducive to convenient recharging.

Practically, I don't see electrics appealing to much of a market in North America. However, in places like Japan or Western Europe they are very practical because most people drive short distances at low speeds and petrol prices are much higher than we pay. An electric car would also suit me perfectly because I live in a highly urbanised area and must use a car for business; public transit simply isn't an option for me most of the time. I also think that an electric would most often be used a second car.

As for recharging, well, we could use the prairie model with "energised" parking stalls. At least that would allow for top ups.

However, in my case, I am not going to buy an electric car (or a hybrid for that matter) for the "gee whiz" factor; it has to show me a tangible benefit of some sorts.