Topic: CTC Review: 2009 Audi A3 2.0T

[Jaeger]

Really?  You've heard endless tales of crappy reliability about Lexus?  There may be realtively comparable relaibility among German brands, but that is likely of relevance only to those who exclusively consider German auotomobiles. 

I looked at that thread about the Audi in moan and whine.  The thing that stuck out most was not the $6k repair tab, but the 25 days in service at the dealership for repairs.  In all my past Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans, over the years, the total number of times any of those cars had to spend the night at the dealership for maintainace or repair = 0.

That's that kind of anectodal disconnect that makes me approach German brands as a lease-for-warranty-term-only proposition. 

Jaeger

What point are you driving for in this thread, Jaeger?  That all test-drive reviews of German cars should end with the caveat "never mind our first-hand impressions, you should never buy a German car because anecdotal reports about German cars in general suggest they might explode"?  What are you trying to accomplish in this thread?

What point are you driving for in this thread Mitlov?  That no-one should comment on the iffy reliablity of Audis, VWs or German cars in general?  That no-one should pay any heed to he negative experiences of others with vehicles of a given brand?  Should we all just ignore the man behind the curtain because you say so? Seems to me that I am not the only one talking about reliability of these vehicles - both perceived and experienced - yet for some reason you keep wanting to jump right the hell in my face.  Why is that?  What are you trying to accomplish in this thread?

Jaeger

[Mitlov]

What point are you driving for in this thread Mitlov?  That no-one should comment on the iffy reliablity of Audis, VWs or German cars in general?  That no-one should pay any heed to he negative experiences of others with vehicles of a given brand?  Should we all just ignore the man behind the curtain because you say so? Seems to me that I am not the only one talking about reliability of these vehicles - both perceived and experienced - yet for some reason you keep wanting to jump right the hell in my face.  Why is that?  What are you trying to accomplish in this thread?

Jaeger

My point is this.  Whenever a CD reviewer posts a review of a specific car that happens to be made by an American car company, a chunk of people don't talk about the car itself.  They talk about the monolithic "American car" (specifically, they say it's Same conversation again and again and again and again and again, and the thread gets derailed into the same debates we've heard over and over and over and over and over.  It's mind-numbing, and it's gotten to the point that I rarely read the threads which are supposed to be about CD's reviews.

And the same thing happens with German cars.  It doesn't matter whether Wing reviews a Tuareg, A3, Rabbit, 335i, CLK, or 911, the conversation (thanks to a few posters) ends up being exactly the same.  "I won't by German cars because my uncle owned a German car that's mechanically unrelated to the one CD tested, and it was a total reliability nightmare."  Hell, you yourself started out this thread about the 2009 A3 2.0T with a rant about a Passat your dad's friend owned.  A few posts later, you reach your conclusion:

There may be realtively comparable relaibility among German brands, but that is likely of relevance only to those who exclusively consider German auotomobiles...That's that kind of anectodal disconnect that makes me approach German brands as a lease-for-warranty-term-only proposition.

I'm sick of having this same discussion every single time a CD reviewer test-drives a German car, regardless of what it is or what he says about it.  That's my point.  What am I driving for?  A discussion about the Audi A3 2.0T, not the entire history of German automobiles.

The only time a thread about a review stays on topic about that particular car is when the car is Japanese.  I'd like that to change.

[Jaeger]

Well Mitlov, I appreicate your candor.  And while I can appreciate that consistently hearing about the poor relaibailty of German cars may not be to your liking, I can think of a more meaningful solution to the problem than simply demanding that people not discuss it.  Like, maybe encouraging the manufacturers to apply that superior German engineering to the end of providing consumers with at least Korean levels of reliability.  Seems to me that if consumers and automotive scribes alike don't make their concerns known - and simply rhapsodize about a brand's vurtues while ignoring it's vices - there is less likelihood of improvement.  So yes - I would LOVE to be in a position to comment on future VW / Audi products and applaud their design, driving dynamics AND their build quality and reliability.

And as I said, I find it curious that you have consistently jumped on my posts in this thread.  Obviously others are not sick of discussing the subject, yet you have consistently adopted a confrontational approach in response to my posts in an attempt to paint me as some sort of anti-German (cars) agenda-driven agitator.  I'm not whining about it - you are more than free to do as you please - I just find it quite odd.

Jaeger

[Mitlov]

Well Mitlov, I appreicate your candor.  And while I can appreciate that consistently hearing about the poor relaibailty of German cars may not be to your liking, I can think of a more meaningful solution to the problem than simply demanding that people not discuss it.  Like, maybe encouraging the manufacturers to apply that superior German engineering to the end of providing consumers with at least Korean levels of reliability.  Seems to me that if consumers and automotive scribes alike don't make their concerns known - and simply rhapsodize about a brand's vurtues while ignoring it's vices - there is less likelihood of improvement.  So yes - I would LOVE to be in a position to comment on future VW / Audi products and applaud their design, driving dynamics AND their build quality and reliability.

Do I understand you correctly that, until you feel that BMW/Merc/Audi/VW/Porsche have reached Hyundai levels of reliability, you're going to post the same rant about German cars in general in every CD discussion of a German car, regardless of what it is and what CD says about it?

I don't care if you're right or not about "German cars."  Doesn't that seem like it's going to get more than a little repetitive and tiresome?  I mean, why should Wing even post reviews if that's where the discussion is going to end up each time?  Maybe they should just have one thread "thoughts about American cars," one thread "thoughts about German cars," and then only review Japanese cars?  Because nowadays, it seems that reviews of Japanese cars are the only ones where the threads don't get derailed by rants about the entire country.

And as I said, I find it curious that you have consistently jumped on my posts in this thread.  Obviously others are not sick of discussing the subject, yet you have consistently adopted a confrontational approach in response to my posts in an attempt to paint me as some sort of anti-German (cars) agenda-driven agitator.  I'm not whining about it - you are more than free to do as you please - I just find it quite odd.

Your rant may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but you're right, there are multiple people here who are utterly ignoring the test-drive itself and just venting about German cars as a whole.  I find all of their posts equally tiresome.

[Jaeger]

Well Mitlov, I appreicate your candor.  And while I can appreciate that consistently hearing about the poor relaibailty of German cars may not be to your liking, I can think of a more meaningful solution to the problem than simply demanding that people not discuss it.  Like, maybe encouraging the manufacturers to apply that superior German engineering to the end of providing consumers with at least Korean levels of reliability.  Seems to me that if consumers and automotive scribes alike don't make their concerns known - and simply rhapsodize about a brand's vurtues while ignoring it's vices - there is less likelihood of improvement.  So yes - I would LOVE to be in a position to comment on future VW / Audi products and applaud their design, driving dynamics AND their build quality and reliability.

Do I understand you correctly that, until you feel that BMW/Merc/Audi/VW/Porsche have reached Hyundai levels of reliability, you're going to post the same rant about German cars in general in every CD discussion of a German car, regardless of what it is and what CD says about it?

I don't care if you're right or not about "German cars."  Doesn't that seem like it's going to get more than a little repetitive and tiresome?  I mean, why should Wing even post reviews if that's where the discussion is going to end up each time?  Maybe they should just have one thread "thoughts about American cars," one thread "thoughts about German cars," and then only review Japanese cars?  Because nowadays, it seems that reviews of Japanese cars are the only ones where the threads don't get derailed by rants about the entire country.

And as I said, I find it curious that you have consistently jumped on my posts in this thread.  Obviously others are not sick of discussing the subject, yet you have consistently adopted a confrontational approach in response to my posts in an attempt to paint me as some sort of anti-German (cars) agenda-driven agitator.  I'm not whining about it - you are more than free to do as you please - I just find it quite odd.

Your rant may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but you're right, there are multiple people here who are utterly ignoring the test-drive itself and just venting about German cars as a whole.  I find all of their posts equally tiresome.

A few points in response:

1) For someone who professes not to care, you certainly aren't displaying a commensurate level of indifference. 

2) Do you not find it odd that when someone makes a negative comment about a particular brand, he or she can almost always expect to be described as "ranting" about or "bashing" that brand by the more vocal fanboys of that brand?  Actually, come to think of it, it's not that odd.  Just transparently predictable.

3) You know what I do when I find a thread tiresome?  I move on to something I find worthwhile.  Past experience suggests that stamping my feet, shaking my curls and acting like a putulant thread nanny accomplishes little.  Food for thought.

4) Some A3 content just for you: it looks good inside and out, drives great.  If I were to get one, I'd lease it for the warranty term and not a minute longer.  If when something went wrong, I would hope it wouldn't take them 25 days to fix it.

Jaeger

[Greg B.]

The only time a thread about a review stays on topic about that particular car is when the car is Japanese.  I'd like that to change.

I'd be happy to post my experiences with Japanese cars of less than good quality. However I'm sure the usual trollish posters on here who sing the praises of such vehicles in 3-part harmony would gang up on me. Regardless, I do agree that the constant refrain that Toyondas run forever with no problems while German and American cars barely make it out of the showroom before being reduced to inoperable hulks of smoking junk on the side of the road is more than a bit tiresome.

[airbalancer]

The only time a thread about a review stays on topic about that particular car is when the car is Japanese.  I'd like that to change.

I'd be happy to post my experiences with Japanese cars of less than good quality. However I'm sure the usual trollish posters on here who sing the praises of such vehicles in 3-part harmony would gang up on me. Regardless, I do agree that the constant refrain that Toyondas run forever with no problems while German and American cars barely make it out of the showroom before being reduced to inoperable hulks of smoking junk on the side of the road is more than a bit tiresome.

Thank you. 

I could tell the story about how my wife's old Nissan pickup had broken down in the middle of the Golden Gate bridge at 2 am (true story), and tell it in every single thread about a Nissan, and just tell people who didn't want to hear it anymore to ignore my post and everyone responding to it.  But I wouldn't do that.  You know why?  Because I feel it's not constructive, and it's disruptive to the very purpose of having discussion threads about test-drives.

It could be worst , could have been at 4pm

[Snowman]

Well Mitlov, I appreicate your candor.  And while I can appreciate that consistently hearing about the poor relaibailty of German cars may not be to your liking, I can think of a more meaningful solution to the problem than simply demanding that people not discuss it.  Like, maybe encouraging the manufacturers to apply that superior German engineering to the end of providing consumers with at least Korean levels of reliability.  Seems to me that if consumers and automotive scribes alike don't make their concerns known - and simply rhapsodize about a brand's vurtues while ignoring it's vices - there is less likelihood of improvement.  So yes - I would LOVE to be in a position to comment on future VW / Audi products and applaud their design, driving dynamics AND their build quality and reliability.

Do I understand you correctly that, until you feel that BMW/Merc/Audi/VW/Porsche have reached Hyundai levels of reliability, you're going to post the same rant about German cars in general in every CD discussion of a German car, regardless of what it is and what CD says about it?

I don't care if you're right or not about "German cars."  Doesn't that seem like it's going to get more than a little repetitive and tiresome?  I mean, why should Wing even post reviews if that's where the discussion is going to end up each time?  Maybe they should just have one thread "thoughts about American cars," one thread "thoughts about German cars," and then only review Japanese cars?  Because nowadays, it seems that reviews of Japanese cars are the only ones where the threads don't get derailed by rants about the entire country.

And as I said, I find it curious that you have consistently jumped on my posts in this thread.  Obviously others are not sick of discussing the subject, yet you have consistently adopted a confrontational approach in response to my posts in an attempt to paint me as some sort of anti-German (cars) agenda-driven agitator.  I'm not whining about it - you are more than free to do as you please - I just find it quite odd.

Your rant may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but you're right, there are multiple people here who are utterly ignoring the test-drive itself and just venting about German cars as a whole.  I find all of their posts equally tiresome.

A few points in response:

1) For someone who professes not to care, you certainly aren't displaying a commensurate level of indifference. 

2) Do you not find it odd that when someone makes a negative comment about a particular brand, he or she can almost always expect to be described as "ranting" about or "bashing" that brand by the more vocal fanboys of that brand?  Actually, come to think of it, it's not that odd.  Just transparently predictable.

3) You know what I do when I find a thread tiresome?  I move on to something I find worthwhile.  Past experience suggests that stamping my feet, shaking my curls and acting like a putulant thread nanny accomplishes little.  Food for thought.

4) Some A3 content just for you: it looks good inside and out, drives great.  If I were to get one, I'd lease it for the warranty term and not a minute longer.  If when something went wrong, I would hope it wouldn't take them 25 days to fix it.

Jaeger

 

[kevlar]

i love the  A3.   it's a perfect city car.  my friend owns one and it's as big as my a4 inside the passenger area.  it seems they only reduced the cargo area and kept the passenger area leg room etc the same.   now they only have to bring a diesel version!!

[Greg Lozowski]

Which car did you enjoy more? The 3.2 v6 or the 2.0T