CTC Review: 2009 Audi A3 2.0T

[jitsu303]

Staying off-topic regarding Audi reliability-I've heard just as much anecdotal evidence about every vehicle manufacturer at some point.  Mercedes, for example, seems to continually score low in reliabilty scores but I personally think that's a function of extremely high standards of the owners.  If a Mercedes owner heard the slightest rattle, you can be sure he/she would comment negatively on the build quality.  If the same rattle was present in any other vehicle, it probably either wouldn't be heard over the engine noise or simply accepted.  Just food for thought.
I own two Audi's, an '86 and a '90.  I have never had ANY major issues with either one (knocks wood) other than routine maintenance.  I may be an anomaly where I do my own maintenance and I fix things before they become major problems.  Cars are machines, they wear and things break.  Some people forget that.

[tpl]

Re Day 3.  The 2.0 and the DSG   My GTI behaves like the A3 you are driving.   Maybe not so severe as the GTI is lighter and has less grip especially on acceleration.

I think it is all in the programming in the transmission computer.  The off the line is alleviated somewhat by releasing the brake and waiting that second for the clutch to engage and move the car an inch before planting the foot.   As for the jerky decel, the GTI doesn't jerk but has little engine braking unless one forces downshifts manually.  One can see it change down but not feel it.
There is no doubt that "D" mode is programmed for fuel consumption and IMO that sport mode is a waste of a slot on the shift lever.  I don't know about you but I think Fantino would get you before you'd ever get into 6th in sport mode

[lebowski]

Alright, well since we're still off topic...well said, Jitsu303. I don’t think any of the current German marques could be accused of fantastic reliability, and repairing and maintaining a new German car out of warranty will no doubt be expensive. If you wanna play, you gotta pay. I only wonder if Audi’s perceived inferior reliability compared to other German marques has to do with how the Quattro system affects the life of the car? I have to believe that a similarly-equipped x-drive bmw or 4matic MB would have similar issues as the miles wore on. Anyhow, it’s a somewhat academic debate – one thing I’ve learned from this forum and doing other research is that if I decide on going the used route, it should be CPO with a warranty.

On a more topical note...i tried the DSG recently on a TDI jetta i was test driving a few weeks ago, back-to-back with a tiptronic-equipped 2.5 gasoline jetta. My time in either car was short, but my immediate impression was, compared to the tiptronic (which i thought was quite good, for what it was), the DSG was not so much a revelation as it was merely a marginally quicker-feeling tiptronic, and certainly not the substitute for a manual transmission that many have declared.

[Mitlov]

Alright, well since we're still off topic...well said, Jitsu303. I don’t think any of the current German marques could be accused of fantastic reliability, and repairing and maintaining a new German car out of warranty will no doubt be expensive. If you wanna play, you gotta pay. I only wonder if Audi’s perceived inferior reliability compared to other German marques has to do with how the Quattro system affects the life of the car? I have to believe that a similarly-equipped x-drive bmw or 4matic MB would have similar issues as the miles wore on. Anyhow, it’s a somewhat academic debate – one thing I’ve learned from this forum and doing other research is that if I decide on going the used route, it should be CPO with a warranty.

On a more topical note...i tried the DSG recently on a TDI jetta i was test driving a few weeks ago, back-to-back with a tiptronic-equipped 2.5 gasoline jetta. My time in either car was short, but my immediate impression was, compared to the tiptronic (which i thought was quite good, for what it was), the DSG was not so much a revelation as it was merely a marginally quicker-feeling tiptronic, and certainly not the substitute for a manual transmission that many have declared.

People's perceptions of reliability are slow to change.  BMW and especially MB used to enjoy pretty darned good reliability; Audi and VW used to be the worst of the worst.  Nowadays, they're all pretty similar (their compact sport sedans seem to get around "average" from Consumer Reports, and the fancier their cars get, the worse their reliability is).  Yet when a modern BMW craps out on someone, they say "hey, that's odd, oh well;" when a modern VW/Audi does, they say "well I guess they're still making crap."

My classic example of this?  Car & Driver's long-term 2006 330i and 2006 GTI.  The GTI suffered rattles, a burned-out tail bulb ($3), one check-engine light, and two interior electrical outlets that stopped working (they needed a $1 fuse).  They really liked the car overall, but their conclusion about reliability?  "The GTI never stranded us or failed to start, but its problems were often exasperating...the electrical and trim defects remind us of 20 years ago, when flawless reliability was the exception. Today, we expect it."

Now let's turn to the 330i long-term test.  It had to have unscheduled maintenance for a failed wheel bearing.  The air conditioner stopped working on four occasions (a much bigger deal in the US than in Canada, of course).  And it left them stranded on the side of the road when the key-fob-slot thing quit working.  They really liked the car overall, and their conclusion about reliability?  "All told, these faults were outweighed by the 330i's overall satisfaction.  VanderWerp summed it up for all of us: 'This is simply the best daily driver on the market—the ideal blend of sport, luxury, practicality, and excitement.'"

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/long_term_road_tests/2006_volkswagen_gti_long_term_road_test+t-the_gti_s_reputation+page-3.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/entry_luxury/2006_bmw_330i_long_term_road_test+t-a_breeze_to_maintain+page-3.html

[airbalancer]

and two interior electrical outlets that stopped working (they needed a $1 fuse).
SO they screwed up, the fused did what it was designed to do and they blamed  the car

[Mitlov]

and two interior electrical outlets that stopped working (they needed a $1 fuse).
SO they screwed up, the fused did what it was designed to do and they blamed  the car

No joke.

I liked how the GTI never left them stranded, and they stated that nowadays flawless reliability is expected.  The 330i did strand them, and they declared it "simply the best daily driver on the market."  Inconsistent standards much?

[blur911]

and two interior electrical outlets that stopped working (they needed a $1 fuse).
SO they screwed up, the fused did what it was designed to do and they blamed  the car

No joke.

I liked how the GTI never left them stranded, and they stated that nowadays flawless reliability is expected.  The 330i did strand them, and they declared it "simply the best daily driver on the market."  Inconsistent standards much?

Yeah, but what do you want from "Car and Driver"?  They're just half a notch above Motor Trend (IMHO)

I would like to add a comment about Audi reliability though, the odometer on my 1990 90q20v just stopped working, and at only 367k     I don't think I'll even fix it.   Good to keep the mileage low for resale.

[Giant Dwarf]

and two interior electrical outlets that stopped working (they needed a $1 fuse).
SO they screwed up, the fused did what it was designed to do and they blamed  the car

No joke.

I liked how the GTI never left them stranded, and they stated that nowadays flawless reliability is expected.  The 330i did strand them, and they declared it "simply the best daily driver on the market."  Inconsistent standards much?

...or to look at it another way, the enjoyment generated in driving the BMW is greater than that of the GTI.  This greater level of driver exhilaration allows a greater level of forgiveness against some defects / ailments too.

I can tell you that despite a few electrical gremlins with my BMW, I'd be willing to forego perfect reliability (such as I've experienced with my MX5) to enjoy the BMW driving experience again in my next car.  Even though I believe a new GTI or Audi would be equally as reliable (or unreliable) as a new BMW, my expected long-term enjoyment of the BMW would be greater than the VW/Audi, thus making it a better contender for "best daily driver on the market" to me.

There does come a breaking point however and in Car and Driver's case, you'd think that being left stranded would diminish the driving enjoyment enough that it would sully the whole ownership experience (it would for me).

[Mitlov]

...or to look at it another way, the enjoyment generated in driving the BMW is greater than that of the GTI.  This greater level of driver exhilaration allows a greater level of forgiveness against some defects / ailments too.

But BOTH reviews were glowing about the car's dynamics and driving experience.  It's not like they loved the 3-Series and thought that the GTI was merely pretty good.

There does come a breaking point however and in Car and Driver's case, you'd think that being left stranded would diminish the driving enjoyment enough that it would sully the whole ownership experience (it would for me).

Exactly.  When a burned-out tail bulb is unforgivable but being stranded is forgivable, you have to start questioning the reviewer's biases and objectivity.

[Jaeger]

Staying off-topic regarding Audi reliability-I've heard just as much anecdotal evidence about every vehicle manufacturer at some point.  Mercedes, for example, seems to continually score low in reliabilty scores but I personally think that's a function of extremely high standards of the owners.  If a Mercedes owner heard the slightest rattle, you can be sure he/she would comment negatively on the build quality.  If the same rattle was present in any other vehicle, it probably either wouldn't be heard over the engine noise or simply accepted.  Just food for thought.
I own two Audi's, an '86 and a '90.  I have never had ANY major issues with either one (knocks wood) other than routine maintenance.  I may be an anomaly where I do my own maintenance and I fix things before they become major problems.  Cars are machines, they wear and things break.  Some people forget that.

Really?  You've heard endless tales of crappy reliability about Lexus?  There may be realtively comparable relaibility among German brands, but that is likely of relevance only to those who exclusively consider German auotomobiles. 

I looked at that thread about the Audi in moan and whine.  The thing that stuck out most was not the $6k repair tab, but the 25 days in service at the dealership for repairs.  In all my past Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans, over the years, the total number of times any of those cars had to spend the night at the dealership for maintainace or repair = 0.

That's that kind of anectodal disconnect that makes me approach German brands as a lease-for-warranty-term-only proposition. 

Jaeger

[Vmango]

My mother-in-law's Lexus RX350 needed its entire tranmission replaced after only 30000KM and change.....It also has had a series of electrical issues in the dash.

Believe it or not, all cars and manufacturers are subject to malfunctions. I think we tend to focus and scrutinize certain brands/manufacturers over others. I even caught myself saying to her "gee, these things never happen to Toyotas..." If it had been my Cobalt I'm sure I would have had an opinion along the lines of "well, that was expected, crappy American quality"...

Anyway, slightly off topic but relevant to our opionions of Audi/VW reliability

[Mitlov]

Really?  You've heard endless tales of crappy reliability about Lexus?  There may be realtively comparable relaibility among German brands, but that is likely of relevance only to those who exclusively consider German auotomobiles. 

I looked at that thread about the Audi in moan and whine.  The thing that stuck out most was not the $6k repair tab, but the 25 days in service at the dealership for repairs.  In all my past Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans, over the years, the total number of times any of those cars had to spend the night at the dealership for maintainace or repair = 0.

That's that kind of anectodal disconnect that makes me approach German brands as a lease-for-warranty-term-only proposition. 

Jaeger

What point are you driving for in this thread, Jaeger?  That all test-drive reviews of German cars should end with the caveat "never mind our first-hand impressions, you should never buy a German car because anecdotal reports about German cars in general suggest they might explode"?  What are you trying to accomplish in this thread?

[Giant Dwarf]

But BOTH reviews were glowing about the car's dynamics and driving experience.  It's not like they loved the 3-Series and thought that the GTI was merely pretty good.

They liked both cars, but they didn't call both cars "simply the best daily driver on the market."  It would seem to me that the car they did affix that title to would be the one that gave them considerably more driving enjoyment, thereby making the reliability woes more forgivable.    

***

Vman, regarding that Lexus RX... damned domestically-built crap, eh?   

[Vmango]

We get a good kick out of it because Kristin's Mom's brother (her Uncle) is a team leader at the plant....I give him a good ribbing everytime I see him (but not too much in case I want that killer family deal on a Toyota). 

[2hondas1BMW]

We get a good kick out of it because Kristin's Mom's brother (her Uncle) is a team leader at the plant....I give him a good ribbing everytime I see him (but not too much in case I want that killer family deal on a Toyota). 

What is the "killer" family deal?

[tortoise]

You buy a Toyota and it kills all your driving enjoyment?

[jitsu303]

Jaeger, nope not endless tales about Lexus but a few...no more (or less) than any others.  The only "endless tales" date back to Ladas, Skodas, Yugos, early Hyundai's, most things North American before the early '90's and Chrysler minivan transmissions form a couple years back (off the top of my head)

I bet I could find endless tales about Lexus if I looked for them or had a pre-conceived notion that they are junk.  I won't and I don't...I TRY to be as objective as I can

[jitsu303]

and two interior electrical outlets that stopped working (they needed a $1 fuse).
SO they screwed up, the fused did what it was designed to do and they blamed  the car

No joke.

I liked how the GTI never left them stranded, and they stated that nowadays flawless reliability is expected.  The 330i did strand them, and they declared it "simply the best daily driver on the market."  Inconsistent standards much?

Yeah, but what do you want from "Car and Driver"?  They're just half a notch above Motor Trend (IMHO)

I would like to add a comment about Audi reliability though, the odometer on my 1990 90q20v just stopped working, and at only 367k     I don't think I'll even fix it.   Good to keep the mileage low for resale.

I have a '90 90q20v as well...wouldn't think of selling it to buy a kidney, if I needed one.

[Vmango]

If you're family with anyone who works for the Toyota factory you can buy a Toyota at a heavily discounted price.

[ggweci]

You buy a Toyota and it kills all your driving enjoyment?