Topic: 05 GM 3.4L engine lifter noise

[Leviathan]

Great, now the other two are flinging  4 monkeys - no waiting. All your feces flinging needs in one place. How do they do it? Volume, volume, VOLUME.

[safristi]

 pis-slap tic boom......................pis slap tic boom....................any snake OIL to quieten that lot down............ .

[barrie1]

Well that is a true statement tho regarding Toyota engines or at least some designs of them as Greg B said.  I am glad you made profit off of the so-called Snake Oil as you call it but its a shame you really didn't learn anything about it at all as thats basically what you have stated Honda Owner. That sure makes you sound like a real honest guy to your customers for sure. No wonder many customers have very little faith in the dealerships when they read stuff like this. I would have enjoyed being a customer of yours and playing with your head as I know already just how little I would have learned from you. 

[Honda Owner]

That sure makes you sound like a real honest guy to your customers for sure. No wonder many customers have very little faith in the dealerships when they read stuff like this.

It is how the car business runs Barrie. It is about making money, getting customers to spend it. If I had not wrote big work orders with additional operation lines added, I would have been sh*t canned in one pay period and somebody else would have replaced me. We were trained to sell, encouraged to sell and rewarded to sell. The entire dealership runs on the cashflow generated by the service department. That money is payed the day the R/O is posted and dealerships rely on that cash to pay the bills.

In fact, we were sent to training schools to teach us ways to maximise how much we got out of a customer. GM Canada runs to schools and every advisor in the organisation attends them.

This is how GM service departments are run, Barrie. Go work at one and you'll find out, too.

I would have enjoyed being a customer of yours and playing with your head as I know already just how little I would have learned from you.

I had your type all of the time, Barrie. There are always a certain number of people who hang around dealerships. You would not have learned anything from me. We were trained to not impart any product knowledge to the customer whatsoever. We are "writers" because we enter a customer's concern onto an R/O. Then the goal is to get the customer out of the store ASAP and sell over the phone. If the customer waits around, there is no upsell unless it is something that needs to be done immediately, like brakes. Service advisors do not comment on condition the customer has presented, only reports back on the method to solve said concern. If a customer wants to rant at the advisor or "play with you head" the next step is to refer the customer to the manager. A good advisor doesn't have the time to play, his job is to generate retail labour. He does this by working the phones on the R/Os he wrote in the morning, which he then has to arrange transportation for, close and get paid. You learn very quickly not to be chatty and not to have opinions.

[articsteve]

 

That is exactly how it works in ANY new car store.  Although,  I would add that certain brands have a competitive advantage when it comes to up selling. 

[Honda Owner]

That is exactly how it works in ANY new car store

True but it is harder to do when a service plan is sold with the car and something like 80% of Toyondas go out with one. They are usually quite quite reasonably priced, for example $999 for a Corolla 48 month, 100,000 km. Chrysler charged $2500 for the same coverage which tells you what they are expecting in year 4. Toyota does this to control the dealer service departments from doing just what I did. Toyota is really big into tires and makes most of their gross on them.

As an aside, service plans give you a good idea of what maintenance a car REALLY needs. A Chrysler Gold Plan only changes oil and rotates tires for the entire plan.

[articsteve]

That is exactly how it works in ANY new car store

True but it is harder to do when a service plan is sold with the car and something like 80% of Toyondas go out with one. They are usually quite quite reasonably priced, for example $999 for a Corolla 48 month, 100,000 km. Chrysler charged $2500 for the same coverage which tells you what they are expecting in year 4. Toyota does this to control the dealer service departments from doing just what I did. Toyota is really big into tires and makes most of their gross on them.

As an aside, service plans give you a good idea of what maintenance a car REALLY needs. A Chrysler Gold Plan only changes oil and rotates tires for the entire plan.

80% of Toyondas go out with one

That figure might be region specific.  In my world "rust treatment" out sells extended warranty, next is life and disability insurance.

[Honda Owner]

That figure might be region specific.

Very true. Rust "protection (hahaha)" is not a big thing here on the Wet Coast since we (usually) have very mild winters. Asian customers almost always buy a service plan since few of them have any idea of how to service a car. For many, they are buying their first car.

[barrie1]

I was a little higher ranked then you were in a service dept as I worked out of the zone office in my area for more years then you worked in this service dept. Yes I would have not learned much from you as I  learned much higher up. They had no choice but to imform me and or take a car off the lot and plate it for me now even if the need was there. That actually happened more then once. 

[articsteve]

I was a little higher ranked then you were in a service dept as I worked out of the zone office in my area for more years then you worked in this service dept. Yes I would have not learned much from you as I  learned much higher up. They had no choice but to imform me and or take a car off the lot and plate it for me now even if the need was there. That actually happened more then once. 

 

[Honda Owner]

I was a little higher ranked then [sic] you were in a service dept as I worked out of the zone office in my area for more years then you worked in this [sic] service dept. Yes I would have not learned much from you as I  learned much higher up. They had no choice but to imform [sic] me and or take a car off the lot and plate it for me now even if the need was there. That actually happened more then once.

Not that the above makes any sense to me.....

What was your zone number, Barrie? What was your FFV rating and your mean CSI? How many GM PP-2451 was your zone allotted as your FFV bonus? Which dealer got the most?

[rrocket]

I was a little higher ranked then [sic] you were in a service dept as I worked out of the zone office in my area for more years then you worked in this [sic] service dept. Yes I would have not learned much from you as I  learned much higher up. They had no choice but to imform [sic] me and or take a car off the lot and plate it for me now even if the need was there. That actually happened more then once.

Not that the above makes any sense to me.....

What was your zone number, Barrie? What was your FFV rating and your mean CSI? How many GM PP-2451 was your zone allotted as your FFV bonus? Which dealer got the most?

 

[barrie1]

In our area here it always is McMasters as they have 2 GM dealerships and the Caddie Hummer one as well. I was not a salaried employee but a driver for a no. of years out of the London Zone office area. I was the person who dealt in getting any repairs done and also issueing the new vehicles to the higher ups as back then they received a new car every 3 months or every 3000 klms, which ever came 1st. This also included the Cami plant in Ingersol as they did not drive their own new products. The rules have changed now and they get one car a year period which saves the company a lot of money each year. The London Zone office was on pond Mills road with the training school being on Soveirn Rd which is in East London. GM Locomotive division is where my office was as we always had at least 200 cars there full time between coming in and out of service. Also spent a lot of time at the licence agency as well as they all had to be plated or have them removed before they went to either private sale or the auction in Toronto. The majority were sold privately as staff there bought them all the time for a reduced price as well. In my spare time I also chauffered for the higher ups as well as  being sent to the Detroit airport a lot on either parts supply missions or picking up passengers. Dealerships had no choice but to deal with me or they had problems from well above me at the time. The higher the Exec the more demanding some of them were. You should know that about them.     

[Honda Owner]

Oh, so, Barrie, driving people around is higher than I was. What exactly was your take home pay doing this "high" job?

You should know that about them.

Yes, it was their decisions that led to the great products and high profitability the General enjoys today.

[barrie1]

My pay scale was Union Rate and as a driver if you really need to know. Full benefits as well. Was yours a Union shop or just a independent as that also makes a large difference in what you earned there as well? Maybe that explains the ripoffs so you could make a higher dollar?   

[articsteve]

 

[Honda Owner]

My pay scale was Union Rate and as a driver if you really need to know.

Well, Barrie, you should be the last person who wants to see GM go bust, as it very nearly is.

Was yours a Union shop or just a independent as that also makes a large difference in what you earned there as well?

Some GM dealers are union and some are not. The one I worked at was union I worked on salary+commission and received full benefits. GM service writers make a relatively high base salary because more than half the orders you write are for warranty work that do not pay commissions. I do not know what you mean in "independent." I am sure as a driver GM paid you a living wage.

When I worked at Chrysler, I was on straight commission. There was more warranty work at GM than Chrysler.

I made a comfortable living as a service advisor. However, it is a very high stress job. Investing wisely means I can enjoy a long and healthy retirement. Care of join me here in Vancouver on April 13 for our annual 10km Sun Run, Barrie?

[Honda Owner]

Of course, in certain Toyota engines, piston slap is never an issue since they are so sludged up that there is nothing moving at all.

Greg, the GM 4.8-6.2 motors are excellent. They do display some piston slap but this it due to wide tolerances so they can endure abuse. GM makes good motors. They have to since anything emissions related is warrantied for eight years. An owner can miss an oil change or two and the things will keep going to very high mileages.

Toyota warrantied all the motors affected by sludge if the owner could prove he/she did ONE oil change a year.

The Chrysler 2.7 had the exact same problem. The sludge was caused by owners not sticking to the 3 month, 5000 km oil change interval stated in the (rarely read) manual. We had scores of them fail and if the owner could not PROVE they had done the oil at the EXACT interval, we did not warranty a single one of them. In reality, the 2.7 was an excellent power plant, smooth, light and efficient. It just could not tolerate the abuse a 360 LA motor could.

Finally, Greg, if you do not like Toyotas or Hondas, you do not have to buy one. That is your choice. However, more people choose to buy them than the so called "domestic" brands. This is called "success" in business, ie getting people to buy your products.

[barrie1]

You have to combine the 2 of them to get that total as neither one it seems has beaten GM yet in total World sales. Nice try and whats next in the silly statement files from you? By the way Honda Owner I have been to the WEst Coast as I had a daughter living in port Coquitlan years ago. Even bought her a new truck from the GM dealership on the highway there. Can't think of the name of the place now but the particular dealership has been in the movies in many different hollywood movies. It has appeared as a Restaurant and a few other business's with its Stone interior. They tried to deny me what a purchase order was until I drop shipped a truck which was identical on them. They got the standard $150. only for their troubles as the sale was classed as a London Dealership Sale. Even that was too much for the lies they attempted to throw at me and they came close to losing their dealership over it. I didn't push it but sometimes feel becuase of their rude treatment to me and my daughter they probably should have. Its a Sonoma P/U with the 5spd tranny and the 4.3 under the hood in the SS version. Jetblack and still being driven faithfully and dailey by my girl as well. Only 12 years old with a still perfect frame on it as well. 

[Honda Owner]

You have to combine the 2 of them to get that total as neither one it seems has beaten GM yet in total World sales. Nice try and whats next in the silly statement files from you? By the way Honda Owner I have been to the WEst [sic] Coast as I had a daughter living in port [sic] Coquitlan [sic] years ago. Even bought her a new truck from the GM dealership on the highway there. Can't think of the name of the place now but the particular dealership has been in the movies in many different hollywood [sic] movies. It has appeared as a Restaurant and a few other business's with its Stone interior.

You would be referring to Eagle Ridge GM. They closed their North Vancouver store last year, too.

As for sales, you are correct. In 2007, GM sold 9,369,000 vehicles, Toyota  9,366,000.

Toyota will almost certainly surpass GM in 2008.

In the same period, Toyota made a profit of $18,700,000,000.

GM posted a loss of $39,000,000,000 in the same period.

As of Dec 24, 2008, GM stock is selling for $3.25 a share.

As of Dec 24, 2008, Toyota stock is selling for $61.08 a share.

So, Barrie, which company is a more successful business?