CD Article: 2009 Subaru WRX265

[2hondas1BMW]

Being able to haul 3 friends and some skis to the mountain for a winter weekend getaway ain't bad either.  Try doing that in a 350Z.  And hey, if the car gets muddy or picks up a few stone chips while you're blasting across the country side, who cares, it was ugly to begin with (whereas, in driving a 135i, for instance, I'd cringe everytime I get stuck behind a sand/ salt truck).  

That is so true it's not even funny.  I was mightily impressed by your bro's wagon, what bhp is that thing?  Three up with a trunk full and it could still launch forward when needed!

It should be 173 hp.

[Turbo Bob]

Being able to haul 3 friends and some skis to the mountain for a winter weekend getaway ain't bad either.  Try doing that in a 350Z.  And hey, if the car gets muddy or picks up a few stone chips while you're blasting across the country side, who cares, it was ugly to begin with (whereas, in driving a 135i, for instance, I'd cringe everytime I get stuck behind a sand/ salt truck).  

That is so true it's not even funny.  I was mightily impressed by your bro's wagon, what bhp is that thing?  Three up with a trunk full and it could still launch forward when needed!

It should be 173 hp.

Really? It was very entertaining, but as in the other thread as well, only really comes into it's own on gravel and snow.

[Vmango]

This one one of the more [subdued?] reviews the 265 I've read. It does bring up a lot of points - points I share as a prospective buyer of the 265. My biggest complaint - and I agree with GD on this - is the fact the the Mazda comes MUCH better equipped than the 265. Having been in both, the Mazdaspeed interior is much richer - better seats, stereo, quality, etc . The standard HIDs are also very sweet. I really wish you could get leather or proper recaros (like Europe) as an option on the 265...

However, I wonder that when people think about the 265 and it's 35K price they often forget about the AWD. It's a big advantage over FWD and probably makes up the cost difference. From both an enthusiast perspective and year-round use perspective it carries a large advantage. Also, I see cars like the A3 compared to the 265. I have also considered both cars, their advantages and disadvantages and the thing that really wins for the 265 in the AWD and manual transmission. If the A3 offered this, the 265 might be out of a job - but is doesn't. When you start putting the options you want on the A3 is quickly becomes a 40K+ car.

GD, I don't know where you get off even mentioning the 135 in any sort of comparison to the 265? Having also driven both - I don't think you'd even realistically consider one or the other (although we might, we aren't truly the regular population). Other than being similar in size, they are apples and oranges.

I personally think the 265 is the perfect enthusiast car for those who can't affort (or don't want spend that much) something over 40K  and require or enjoy the usebility of the hatch and AWD. It's a very unique car and I think why most people may not come away impressed is because it really doesn't match up against anything else. People may also have unrealistic expectations - it is still an entry-level-type-car. Subaru is not BMW or Audi.

Personally I would take the power, AWD, and the manual over a badge and nice package in an A3. At the end of the day, I would take what the 265 offers over other options. It certainly has its faults but when you step back and see what the car is offering you - it's pretty sweet. Don't get me wrong....to enjoy the 265 you're going to have to enjoy it from the inside out. You aren't going to get a lot of people telling you (or noticing) what a nice car you have.

Much longer response than I had planned.....

[quadzilla]

If the A3 offered this, the 265 might be out of a job - but is doesn't.

I think you can now get Quattro + DSG on the A3's. I know its not a real manual but its as close as you are going to get with VW Audi.

[carcrazy]

I think the Ralliart is the closest WRX265 competitor. It's a sedan (there is a WRX265 sedan too), and it has less HP, which I believe can be easily upgraded, but it comes standard with few extra nice features for $1000 less (HIDs, Recaro seats, etc.).
Now, many may say that the lack of a third pedal may take away some fun, but on the other hand, the SST seems to be praised by every reviewer and it looks like it helps performance too. Remember, the Evo MR (w/SST) was always faster than the STI around the track or on the twisties, although the STI is faster 0-60 mph or 1/4 mile.
I cannot wait to see the side-by-side comparos between these two popping up on the Internet.

[carcrazy]

If the A3 offered this, the 265 might be out of a job - but is doesn't.

I think you can now get Quattro + DSG on the A3's. I know its not a real manual but its as close as you are going to get with VW Audi.

A A3 2.0T quattro Stronic is 37K and it comes with leather and it's better equipped than the WRX265 not too mention much nicer.
Still, different kind of car if you ask me.

[evil_twin]

Interesting points GD...and I imagine, pending a test drive, I would agree with you on many.

I really like the WRX265 in principle: lots of power + AWD.  But I really don't like the styling ('09s are certainly nicer...but it ain't beautiful), interior, and I hear lots of complaints about things like paint quality on the subaru forums.

So I'm sort of torn myself.  Do I really care about practicality (AWD, hatch, etc)??  and would I be happier if I saved up a little more and went for a 135i, G37, etc.?

I'm starting to lean further towards the latter.

Regarding the competition, it depends on what your basis for comparison is: price or capabilities.

The Ralliart is the one true competitor I can see.  Otherwise you're looking at very different vehicles:

GTI: FWD
Speed3: FWD
135i: RWD, more $$$, more luxury

A3: I really like the A3, and would probably have it at the top of my list if you could only get quattro with a proper manual.  DSG is fine and dandy and is an impressive piece of technology....but it's far from a manual tranny.


 

[evil_twin]

Oh, and that isn't to say people WON'T crossshop the vehicles mentioned....I'm just saying they're all very different.

Believe me I spend a riiiiiiiiiiiiidiculous amount of my day browsing WRX, 1addicts, e90post, vwvortex, and other forums, debating whether I'd want a 265/GTI/etc or stay with the dear 'stang a little longer, saving up for <insert car lust du joeur here>

[The Mighty Duck]

If you drive a WRX expecting it to feel like an RX8 or 350Z, you might be disappointed.  The Subaru needs REAL roads (frost-heaved ones, cracked, off-camber turns through the back-country) to really be at its best.

I think this is a great point.  I tested an 02 WRX in an absolute downpour a couple years back, and it felt more planted even at high speed than any car I've driven since.  I think Subarus in general are at their best when the conditions are at their worst, so to speak. 

[mrthompson]

Still, for the following two days after my test drive, I drove my brother's '07 Impreza wagon across the province to my parents' place, then north to Bancroft for the Rally of the Tall Pines (I believe the Town of Bancroft actually passed a law disallowing any spectators from entering the village during Rally weekend who isn't driving a Subaru, ha ha).  Letting the Garmin choose the shortest route, we took some very rural, twisty (and often rutted / pock-marked) gravel back roads.  Even the rolly-polley base model wagon, clawed and snarled its way around these roads with enthusiasm (while poor Turbo Bob got nauseaus in the back seat).  It was then I started to change my opinion of the previous day's test drive in the 265.

If you drive a WRX expecting it to feel like an RX8 or 350Z, you might be disappointed.  The Subaru needs REAL roads (frost-heaved ones, cracked, off-camber turns through the back-country) to really be at its best.  Hit a blind corner with decreasing radius faster than you should?  I'd rather be in the WRX than the truer sports cars since the Subaru can compensate for a lot more stupidity (just ask Bob).  

I'm curious what route was taken.   

[airbalancer]

Still, for the following two days after my test drive, I drove my brother's '07 Impreza wagon across the province to my parents' place, then north to Bancroft for the Rally of the Tall Pines (I believe the Town of Bancroft actually passed a law disallowing any spectators from entering the village during Rally weekend who isn't driving a Subaru, ha ha). Letting the Garmin choose the shortest route, we took some very rural, twisty (and often rutted / pock-marked) gravel back roads.  Even the rolly-polley base model wagon, clawed and snarled its way around these roads with enthusiasm (while poor Turbo Bob got nauseaus in the back seat).  It was then I started to change my opinion of the previous day's test drive in the 265.

If you drive a WRX expecting it to feel like an RX8 or 350Z, you might be disappointed.  The Subaru needs REAL roads (frost-heaved ones, cracked, off-camber turns through the back-country) to really be at its best.  Hit a blind corner with decreasing radius faster than you should?  I'd rather be in the WRX than the truer sports cars since the Subaru can compensate for a lot more stupidity (just ask Bob).  

I'm curious what route was taken.   

Probably Hiway 35 or 28 

[Giant Dwarf]

Vman, you may be putting too much faith in what AWD really does in a car.  Under ideal circumstances, a properly set up AWD car will likely out-perform a sporting FWD car in a track setting at 9/10ths... but wasn't it a Cobalt SS that recently 'pants'ed' a number of bigger gun machines in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap.  Wasn't the AWD STI one of them?  

The WRX will understeer at its limits in most circumstances.  Where a quick jab of the go pedal in a RWD BMW (or even my girly car) will induce a bit of enjoyable oversteer coming out of a corner (or mid-way through if you so choose)... stomping on the accelerator in the WRX in the same scenarios produced understeer like I've experienced in a Mazdaspeed3.  With the proper tires, both FWD and AWD are more than adequate for any weather we're encountering in Southern Ontario as well.  

[Giant Dwarf]

Still, for the following two days after my test drive, I drove my brother's '07 Impreza wagon across the province to my parents' place, then north to Bancroft for the Rally of the Tall Pines (I believe the Town of Bancroft actually passed a law disallowing any spectators from entering the village during Rally weekend who isn't driving a Subaru, ha ha). Letting the Garmin choose the shortest route, we took some very rural, twisty (and often rutted / pock-marked) gravel back roads.  Even the rolly-polley base model wagon, clawed and snarled its way around these roads with enthusiasm (while poor Turbo Bob got nauseaus in the back seat).  It was then I started to change my opinion of the previous day's test drive in the 265.

If you drive a WRX expecting it to feel like an RX8 or 350Z, you might be disappointed.  The Subaru needs REAL roads (frost-heaved ones, cracked, off-camber turns through the back-country) to really be at its best.  Hit a blind corner with decreasing radius faster than you should?  I'd rather be in the WRX than the truer sports cars since the Subaru can compensate for a lot more stupidity (just ask Bob).  

I'm curious what route was taken.   

Probably Hiway 35 or 28 

Hwy 35 is gravel near you? 
Check your map and draw the shortest line of concessions, side roads and cow-paths between the Tamworth area and Madoc and you'd have a pretty good guess.

[Turbo Bob]

Vman, you may be putting too much faith in what AWD really does in a car.  Under ideal circumstances, a properly set up AWD car will likely out-perform a sporting FWD car in a track setting at 9/10ths... but wasn't it a Cobalt SS that recently 'pants'ed' a number of bigger gun machines in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap.  Wasn't the AWD STI one of them?  

The WRX will understeer at its limits in most circumstances.  Where a quick jab of the go pedal in a RWD BMW (or even my girly car) will induce a bit of enjoyable oversteer coming out of a corner (or mid-way through if you so choose)... stomping on the accelerator in the WRX in the same scenarios produced understeer like I've experienced in a Mazdaspeed3.  With the proper tires, both FWD and AWD are more than adequate for any weather we're encountering in Southern Ontario as well.  

Maybe you're right, that's currently the only thing putting me off a Mazdaspeed 3...  I think a week of test drives is in order...

[Vmango]

GD - you're right. FWD is definitly fine. In fact, I quite enjoyed it on my Cobalt because it was very predictable - especially when I was putting down the extra power. I'm only hot on the AWD as I really preferred the feel of the 265 to my Cobalt. Never the fear of losing the back end when putting the power down (esp. in winter). My Cobalt was great in the winter (other than it being really low). Even though it had it's faults, man, I loved that little plastic boy-racer. I really miss the supercharger whine. I guess I'm driving a Corolla now, so maybe that's why I miss it.

The Mazdaspeed is very nice, and I also have the opportunity to get one dirt cheap (through the same source as I got my Cobalt). Believe me, it has been a strong consideration. It's a really nice package. Really nice.

I've obviously fallen in love with the 265, and so, my comments are certainly a little biased. But hey, hopefully we have some members on this board who buy each in the category and we can do a fun little comaro 

[wing]

Vman, you may be putting too much faith in what AWD really does in a car.  Under ideal circumstances, a properly set up AWD car will likely out-perform a sporting FWD car in a track setting at 9/10ths... but wasn't it a Cobalt SS that recently 'pants'ed' a number of bigger gun machines in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap.  Wasn't the AWD STI one of them?  

The WRX will understeer at its limits in most circumstances.  Where a quick jab of the go pedal in a RWD BMW (or even my girly car) will induce a bit of enjoyable oversteer coming out of a corner (or mid-way through if you so choose)... stomping on the accelerator in the WRX in the same scenarios produced understeer like I've experienced in a Mazdaspeed3.  With the proper tires, both FWD and AWD are more than adequate for any weather we're encountering in Southern Ontario as well.  

Maybe you're right, that's currently the only thing putting me off a Mazdaspeed 3...  I think a week of test drives is in order...

You'll want it after a week.

[Turbo Bob]

Vman, you may be putting too much faith in what AWD really does in a car.  Under ideal circumstances, a properly set up AWD car will likely out-perform a sporting FWD car in a track setting at 9/10ths... but wasn't it a Cobalt SS that recently 'pants'ed' a number of bigger gun machines in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap.  Wasn't the AWD STI one of them?  

The WRX will understeer at its limits in most circumstances.  Where a quick jab of the go pedal in a RWD BMW (or even my girly car) will induce a bit of enjoyable oversteer coming out of a corner (or mid-way through if you so choose)... stomping on the accelerator in the WRX in the same scenarios produced understeer like I've experienced in a Mazdaspeed3.  With the proper tires, both FWD and AWD are more than adequate for any weather we're encountering in Southern Ontario as well.  

Maybe you're right, that's currently the only thing putting me off a Mazdaspeed 3...  I think a week of test drives is in order...

You'll want it after a week.

I was pretty impressed by the model below it, and that has got way less power...

[Giant Dwarf]

Vman, you may be putting too much faith in what AWD really does in a car.  Under ideal circumstances, a properly set up AWD car will likely out-perform a sporting FWD car in a track setting at 9/10ths... but wasn't it a Cobalt SS that recently 'pants'ed' a number of bigger gun machines in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap.  Wasn't the AWD STI one of them?  

The WRX will understeer at its limits in most circumstances.  Where a quick jab of the go pedal in a RWD BMW (or even my girly car) will induce a bit of enjoyable oversteer coming out of a corner (or mid-way through if you so choose)... stomping on the accelerator in the WRX in the same scenarios produced understeer like I've experienced in a Mazdaspeed3.  With the proper tires, both FWD and AWD are more than adequate for any weather we're encountering in Southern Ontario as well.  

Maybe you're right, that's currently the only thing putting me off a Mazdaspeed 3...  I think a week of test drives is in order...

You'll want it after a week.

I was pretty impressed by the model below it, and that has got way less power...

If you're referring to the ride in my Mzd3 GS, it's a whole other world.  From equipment level/features, to handling, to the sound, to the amazing thrust from the engine, they feel verrrry different. 

[Turbo Bob]

Vman, you may be putting too much faith in what AWD really does in a car.  Under ideal circumstances, a properly set up AWD car will likely out-perform a sporting FWD car in a track setting at 9/10ths... but wasn't it a Cobalt SS that recently 'pants'ed' a number of bigger gun machines in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap.  Wasn't the AWD STI one of them?  

The WRX will understeer at its limits in most circumstances.  Where a quick jab of the go pedal in a RWD BMW (or even my girly car) will induce a bit of enjoyable oversteer coming out of a corner (or mid-way through if you so choose)... stomping on the accelerator in the WRX in the same scenarios produced understeer like I've experienced in a Mazdaspeed3.  With the proper tires, both FWD and AWD are more than adequate for any weather we're encountering in Southern Ontario as well.  

Maybe you're right, that's currently the only thing putting me off a Mazdaspeed 3...  I think a week of test drives is in order...

You'll want it after a week.

I was pretty impressed by the model below it, and that has got way less power...

If you're referring to the ride in my Mzd3 GS, it's a whole other world.  From equipment level/features, to handling, to the sound, to the amazing thrust from the engine, they feel verrrry different. 

It felt pretty quick, and had a good snarling engine note too.

[Turbo Bob]

The UK Mitsu equivalent...

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/225168/mitsubishi_ralliart_sportback.html