CD Article: 2010 Mazda3

[Black Hatch]

Yes they should be standard! 4-wheel disc brakes will stop you quicker.. What are you trying to say?

Is there any proof for that with economy cars? Sure maybe a sports car where you need better cooling but for your sub $20K economy car?

I think so, every articles implies that disc breaks are better than drum brakes.
However because generally 70% of the braking power come from the front wheel disc brakes.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43857/article.html
"Expecting every vehicle built today to come with four-wheel disc brakes would require an across-the-board increase in purchase price, and that could stop new car buyers much quicker than any brake system."

Now in regards to disc vs drums... this was the best i could find.
http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/mag/trucks_test_results_support/

[Black Hatch]

I am trying to say is.... do you want to be able get a $15000 car? 
All these extra "mandatory safety" additions will add to the cost of any new car and add enough of these, the lowest income people will not be able to afford them.

I am trying to say that 4-wheel disc brakes, ABS, TCS, ESC, TCS TPMS, AWD, winter tires, although proven to be safer, are not essential for your basic cheap car IMO. Drive smarter or buy a tank.

Here's a thought.  If you're so poor that you can't afford to put proper tires on your new car, maybe you should buy used.  No amount of "driving smart" is going to save your bacon when you hit an inch-thick sheet of ice and you've got cheap, worn "all-season" radials. 

Well blame the sanders for not getting that bit of black ice.

You know... im getting the feeling that... if winter tires were mandatory... the less the frequency the city or county will come out to clear/sand the roads of snow.
Heck... if we all had AWD and winter tires... why even bother to sand/clear the roads.
(called me cynical)
Now that being said... my winter tires arrived today...booked for Friday to get them mounted. (Why... because Im paranoid of winter driving with RWD)

[99 Silver]

The grill with the chrome divider in it reminds me of a grinning teenage wearing a retainer in his teeth.

[Schmengie]

Too bad Mazda's jumped on the 'distinctive' (read ugly) styling bandwagon started by Honda. The previous 3 was an elegant, restrained yet sporty design that was particularly outstanding for an economy car. This one isn't any of those, especially with that goofy grin on it's face.

[quadzilla]

Yes they should be standard! 4-wheel disc brakes will stop you quicker.. What are you trying to say?

Is there any proof for that with economy cars? Sure maybe a sports car where you need better cooling but for your sub $20K economy car?

I think so, every articles implies that disc breaks are better than drum brakes.
However because generally 70% of the braking power come from the front wheel disc brakes.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43857/article.html
"Expecting every vehicle built today to come with four-wheel disc brakes would require an across-the-board increase in purchase price, and that could stop new car buyers much quicker than any brake system."

Now in regards to disc vs drums... this was the best i could find.
http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/mag/trucks_test_results_support/

Some interesting numbers in that article even though it was for big trucks. When I get some free time I'll have to poke around to see if I can find anything for cars.

[Cortina]

This Mazda3 Looks like Peugeots from the front. I think they have pulled a bit of focus here too.

[mmret]

That gaping maw......

Otherwise, nice.

[Honda Owner]

Rear drum brakes have a significant cost benefit over disks due to the cost of setting up the parking brake. Rear disks cost significantly more, somewhere around $50 a car. This is big money in bean counter parlance.

In a front wheel drive car, stopping distances with rear drums are not significantly longer than disk, since the front wheels do 80% of the stopping power

Remember, it is all about the money.

[tpl]

Rear drum brakes have a significant cost benefit over disks due to the cost of setting up the parking brake. Rear disks cost significantly more, somewhere around $50 a car. This is big money in bean counter parlance.

In a front wheel drive car, stopping distances with rear drums are not significantly longer than disk, since the front wheels do 80% of the stopping power

Remember, it is all about the money.

I would think that ABS and ESP systems that rely on being able to instantly apply some braking effort to a single wheel would be easier (to program for)  and perhaps would function better with discs all around.     Disc pads are lighter and easier to move quickly that drum brake shoes.

[tortoise]

Don`t forget that rear discs require much more maintenance (including caliper replacement) than drums due to constant exposure to salt in the winter.

[safristi]

NEVER needed a CALIPER replaced on any of my cars  disc brakes..............the Pads YES..the Rotors YES......................................


                   Am I the ONLY ONE....................

[Black Hatch]

Totally unscientific (maybe) but looking through some braking 70-0 mph and stopping distances from a C&D road digest 2003.
I am estimating that stopping distances are about 20 to 30ft shorter out of about 200ft with 4wheel disc brakes.

(Try to predict which cars have 4wheel discs and which have disc/drums)
ie Civic LX = 211 ft
Mazda6i = 170 ft
Camry SE = 178ft
Corolla LE = 207 ft
Protege LX = 195 ft
MS Protege = 170 ft
then you have the RX-8s, S2000 and 350Zs that stop in the 160ft range, Dodge Viper shortests at 153 ft

So winters (15%) and 4-wheel disc (10%) will give you approximately 25% reduced braking distance in the winter   

[MKII]

Good article on brake research

There is a practical limit to braking performance, set by the ability of the tyre contact patches to transmit the forces involved without sliding. However, advances in tyre design, soon to be complemented by the ability of electronically controlled braking systems to distribute effort according to wheel load (if, for example, the brakes are applied while the vehicle is cornering), mean that limit is now potentially very high, at least on dry road surfaces. This is throwing the onus very much back to the braking system developers.


Disc brakes, despite prediction of the past, have not completely superseded drum brakes; the latter are still being used at the rear of a number of entry-level small- and medium-segment volume passenger cars produced in Europe, in an effort to contain costs. While the same can be said of the North America and Japanese market, the proportional difference between disc and drum brakes is less marked. Vince Austin, director, product planning for TRW Automotive's Global Braking Systems business said: "The fitment of drum brakes has declined dramatically in Europe over the last ten years for larger segments. AMS [Auto Motor & Sport], the consumer publication that evaluates and publishes braking performance results, was the primary reason OEMs increased the fitment of disc brakes. At the end of the AMS test procedure, the vehicle is evaluated for stopping distance and compared to other vehicles. Those vehicles with stopping distances in excess of 40 metres were considered to have relatively poor braking performance. As consumers became aware of these performance comparisons and started to insist on shorter stopping distances, OEMs incorporated this test within their brake system development. In Europe, the fitment of rear drum brakes remains high in A-segment (˜ 90%) and B-segment (˜ 80%). Larger segments are dominated by disc brakes at all four corners."

http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?id=96332

[mmret]

Totally unscientific (maybe) but looking through some braking 70-0 mph and stopping distances from a C&D road digest 2003.
I am estimating that stopping distances are about 20 to 30ft shorter out of about 200ft with 4wheel disc brakes.

(Try to predict which cars have 4wheel discs and which have disc/drums)
ie Civic LX = 211 ft
Mazda6i = 170 ft
Camry SE = 178ft
Corolla LE = 207 ft
Protege LX = 195 ft
MS Protege = 170 ft
then you have the RX-8s, S2000 and 350Zs that stop in the 160ft range, Dodge Viper shortests at 153 ft

So winters (15%) and 4-wheel disc (10%) will give you approximately 25% reduced braking distance in the winter   

How much of that is tires.

170ft in a Mazda 6i vs 160ft in a S2000, with stickier rubber, bigger brakes, much lighter...I'd say the Mazda is doing damn well.

[Black Hatch]

Totally unscientific (maybe) but looking through some braking 70-0 mph and stopping distances from a C&D road digest 2003.
I am estimating that stopping distances are about 20 to 30ft shorter out of about 200ft with 4wheel disc brakes.

(Try to predict which cars have 4wheel discs and which have disc/drums)
ie Civic LX = 211 ft
Mazda6i = 170 ft
Camry SE = 178ft
Corolla LE = 207 ft
Protege LX = 195 ft
MS Protege = 170 ft
then you have the RX-8s, S2000 and 350Zs that stop in the 160ft range, Dodge Viper shortests at 153 ft

So winters (15%) and 4-wheel disc (10%) will give you approximately 25% reduced braking distance in the winter   

How much of that is tires.

170ft in a Mazda 6i vs 160ft in a S2000, with stickier rubber, bigger brakes, much lighter...I'd say the Mazda is doing damn well.

Both have 4-wheel disc brakes.

I think the most "honest" comparison would be the Protege LX vs the MS Protege 195 ft vs 170 ft
LX is disc/drums
MS (Mazdaspeed) is 4-wheel discs

[ghost]

that black plastic bar is for crash test safety purposes. Arrghhh.... it happened to the 09 rx-8, 09 mazda6 and now this mazda3. Apart from that, very nice. I prefer this over the mazda6 mkII.

[mmret]

Both have 4-wheel disc brakes.

I think the most "honest" comparison would be the Protege LX vs the MS Protege 195 ft vs 170 ft
LX is disc/drums
MS (Mazdaspeed) is 4-wheel discs

I'm aware they all have discs at each corner, but the size of the rotor and the number of calipers matters too.

[Rupert]

I think that all of the latest Chrysler vans have 4 wheel discs. Cheapest below $20,000.

[auto_enthusiast]

Totally unscientific (maybe) but looking through some braking 70-0 mph and stopping distances from a C&D road digest 2003.
I am estimating that stopping distances are about 20 to 30ft shorter out of about 200ft with 4wheel disc brakes.

(Try to predict which cars have 4wheel discs and which have disc/drums)
ie Civic LX = 211 ft
Mazda6i = 170 ft
Camry SE = 178ft
Corolla LE = 207 ft
Protege LX = 195 ft
MS Protege = 170 ft
then you have the RX-8s, S2000 and 350Zs that stop in the 160ft range, Dodge Viper shortests at 153 ft

So winters (15%) and 4-wheel disc (10%) will give you approximately 25% reduced braking distance in the winter   

How much of that is tires.

170ft in a Mazda 6i vs 160ft in a S2000, with stickier rubber, bigger brakes, much lighter...I'd say the Mazda is doing damn well.

Both have 4-wheel disc brakes.

I think the most "honest" comparison would be the Protege LX vs the MS Protege 195 ft vs 170 ft
LX is disc/drums
MS (Mazdaspeed) is 4-wheel discs

I think the majority of that difference is due to tires.  The MS has summer tires while the LX has all seasons.  I'm willing to bet if both cars had the same tires on them that the distances would be close to identical.

I think drums (in the rear) do a good job for most cars for most drivers.  It's only if you're doing a lot of hard driving where you may get a bit of fade.   I know that the rear drums on my old car were lighter than the discs that were available as well.

Conclusion? If you really want better braking performance, get better tires before you get a set rear discs.

[Honda Owner]

I think the majority of that difference is due to tires.  The MS has summer tires while the LX has all seasons.  I'm willing to bet if both cars had the same tires on them that the distances would be close to identical.

Of course it is due to tires. Sport models have stickier rubber than base models do. All auto makers skimp on tires. The ones that came with my Fit were junk. I had an aftermarket wheel and tire picked out before I bought it.

Drums also need service, cleaning them out once a year will improve stopping significantly as well as prolonging drum life. For the average driver, rear drums do the job just fine.

As for caliper replacement, that is a Midas scam. They sell calipers on everything that comes in the door. Here in Lotus Land it is rare to replace a caliper on anything less than ten years old. This comes from someone who has sold about a bizzilionteen brake jobs. It tends to be a bit hilly here.