Topic: Is this oil okay or a concern for my car?

[johngenx]

Uh, oh, the old dino v. sythetic dust up.  Let's post the steps:

1. Some debate about synthetic vs. dino oil with some folks voicing opinions.
2. Steve posts about how most synthetics are not really synthetic and how those of us buying synthetic oils are being scammed.

Most "synthetic" oils sold (Mobil 1, etc.) have much lower pour points than conventional oils, and in Canada, do provide extra engine protection in cold start situations.

More important than the oil itself however, is changing it at reasonable intervals.  We use synthetic in all our internal combustion engines with excellent results.  I use 8000km change intervals in both cars, and the oil is in good condition when it comes out.  Probably could go longer, but a few extra changes in the life of the car is cheap insurance...

[UmroAyyar]

john, valid points.

I get the dino oil changed every 6000kms. I've noticed the car is a bit more noisy and not as smooth running after 6000km.

My car is still young at 69000km, thats why I'm wondering if its worthwhile to switch over to synthetic. Dealer said, don't do it. I am going to find out how much they'll charge for oil change if I bring my own oil and filter. How would I know they did put that particular oil in the car?

[PJungnitsch]

I'd suggest the 0w synthetic oils as well, for low temperature flow gains. When I did my little 'freezer test' only the 0 weight synth was noticeably better at cold temperatures, the regular weight stuff was no different than dino.

Not sure there is much of a gain otherwise with a regular synthetic and regular (shortish) oil change intervals.

[safristi]

.JohnX what is the LOGIC of changing your Synth OIL @ an arbritrary 8,000KM? when as U SAY "IT IS STILL GOOD!!!"........ .........Planet GORE to EARTH..... yeah i know ya live inna 300sq Foot cave.....

[johngenx]

Toyota recommends 8000km, Subaru 6000km.  I used to change it every 5K, but that seems pretty extreme, so I went to 8K.

I bet it's possible to go longer, and I should, but I personally can't afford to gamble on engine life to do so, so I play it conservative.

[rrocket]

^^^^If you use the same type of oil for most oil changes (as I do) you can get a Blackstone oil analysis and they will tell you how much "life" is left in the oil...and recommend a oil change interval....

[articsteve]

Uh, oh, the old dino v. sythetic dust up.  Let's post the steps:

1. Some debate about synthetic vs. dino oil with some folks voicing opinions.
2. Steve posts about how most synthetics are not really synthetic and how those of us buying synthetic oils are being scammed.

Most "synthetic" oils sold (Mobil 1, etc.) have much lower pour points than conventional oils, and in Canada, do provide extra engine protection in cold start situations.

More important than the oil itself however, is changing it at reasonable intervals.  We use synthetic in all our internal combustion engines with excellent results.  I use 8000km change intervals in both cars, and the oil is in good condition when it comes out.  Probably could go longer, but a few extra changes in the life of the car is cheap insurance...

2. Steve posts about how most synthetics are not really synthetic and how those of us buying synthetic oils are being scammed.

PPL should just refrain from using the word synthetic when describing their brand of motor oil.  Instead just use the appropriate groupings:  1, 2, 3, or 4.  Group 3 are "severely hydrocracked" and comprise most of the "synthetic" retail market in North America.

[articsteve]

john, valid points.

I get the dino oil changed every 6000kms. I've noticed the car is a bit more noisy and not as smooth running after 6000km.

My car is still young at 69000km, thats why I'm wondering if its worthwhile to switch over to synthetic. Dealer said, don't do it. I am going to find out how much they'll charge for oil change if I bring my own oil and filter. How would I know they did put that particular oil in the car?

How would I know they did put that particular oil in the car?

No way to really know.

BTW, Toyota oil filters, at least the ones that they use on the Camry 4 banger, are crap.

You should dump and fill your tranny fluid every 30K km from new.  Change your antifreeze every 3 years or more exactly, a simple drain and refill.  I US gallon does it mixed with water.

[airbalancer]

tranny fluid every 30K km from new 
I had my truck done at 160,000 km (4x4)
I had have a van & truck (2wd) will over 300,000 km and never had a problem

[UmroAyyar]

Toyota's manual says for Canada change transmission fluid at 96000km, Coolant at 128,000km.

Anyhow, the routine driving is short in-town trips. Fall next year it should have around 90,000km, time for severe maintenance then. ECP expires at 100,000km, after that I can do the oil changes myself.

[mrthompson]

You should dump and fill your tranny fluid every 30K km from new.  Change your antifreeze every 3 years or more exactly, a simple drain and refill.  I US gallon does it mixed with water.

Is this why Toyotas last so long?  Change the fluids often enough in a Hyundai Pony and it will last a long time too.   

[EV Dan]

Short trips would benefit from a synthetic oil; I would even suggest a 0W- oil both because the oil does not warm up very well within 7 km, and just in case Toronto ever sees lower than -40'C.  You might have a hard time finding a 0W-20 oil, but 0W-30 can be found and can be substituted until 0W-20 becomes less exotic.  I use 0W-30 in all our cars, and the basic Petro Canada synthetic costs $5.50/L from a distributor (cases of 4x4 L).  I don't see a need for you to run the more expensive HDEO synthetic, unless you're going for extended drain intervals, which would have questionable results because of your short trips.

"I use 0W-30 in all our cars, and the basic Petro Canada synthetic costs $5.50/L from a distributor (cases of 4x4 L)."

Are you sure you are not talking ESSO. Where is that magic 5.50 place?

[Squishy]

Definitely not ESSO.  The Petro Canada distributor in Toronto doesn't deal with lubricants & greases, so you will have to find the next nearest one that does.  From past dealings, the Rexdale distributor seems clueless about some of their products, but should know about oil.  Petro Canada recently changed the name of their 0W-30 from Arctic to Supreme Synthetic, although my order last week was still listed as Arctic.  The rest of the synthetics in other weights are more expensive; maybe 0W-30 needs the least VI improvers or pour point depressants, I don't know.

But it's definitely Petro Canada oil.

[Squishy]

You should dump and fill your tranny fluid every 30K km from new.  Change your antifreeze every 3 years or more exactly, a simple drain and refill.  I US gallon does it mixed with water.

Is this why Toyotas last so long?  Change the fluids often enough in a Hyundai Pony and it will last a long time too.  

A dump-and-fill is easier to do than a complete fluid exchange, and safer if your mechanic likes to do a power flush with the exchange.  Most pans hold roughly 30-40% of the transmission fluid, so it should be done slightly more than 3x the manufacturer recommendation.  Same with coolant - most radiators will hold 40-60% of the coolant, so go by twice the manufacturer recommendation unless you want to pull the freeze plugs.

I do 30,000 km drain-and-fills on the MDX and Escort.  25,000 km on the Escape, and 15,000 km on the Lancer.

The GM 4T60-E transmissions seem to fail almost consistently at 260,000 km if the original fluid is kept in - I have known three such transmissions that remained unserviced, and all three went to car heaven at 240,000-260,000 km.

[barrie1]

If the GM trannys are serviced about every 65,000 miles or 100 thousand klicks then they will run for years with great dependability. It usually runs around $100. to $139. depending on who does the work for a complete filter and fluid service. i would recommend useing distilled water in the anti-freeze as well as it does not promote the white guck that forms in rads. Its about $1.99 a gal jug at the drugstores. I always have some in the shop here at home. Good for low batteries as well if you have the type that can be added to. 

[EV Dan]

Definitely not ESSO.  The Petro Canada distributor in Toronto doesn't deal with lubricants & greases, so you will have to find the next nearest one that does.  From past dealings, the Rexdale distributor seems clueless about some of their products, but should know about oil.  Petro Canada recently changed the name of their 0W-30 from Arctic to Supreme Synthetic, although my order last week was still listed as Arctic.  The rest of the synthetics in other weights are more expensive; maybe 0W-30 needs the least VI improvers or pour point depressants, I don't know.

But it's definitely Petro Canada oil.

Thanks.
Found 1: http://www.online.petro-canada.ca/bulkplants/Bulk-Details.asp?l=E&site_id=04048

also more details here:
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/en/products/594.aspx

So which do you think would be best for the Sonata? It says 5w20 on the "7I0" lid and 5w20 or 5w30 in the book.

[articsteve]

Toyota's manual says for Canada change transmission fluid at 96000km, Coolant at 128,000km.

Anyhow, the routine driving is short in-town trips. Fall next year it should have around 90,000km, time for severe maintenance then. ECP expires at 100,000km, after that I can do the oil changes myself.

Toyota's manual says for Canada change transmission fluid at 96000km,


I know what the service manual says.     No manufacturer would dare publicly state a dump and fill at 30,000 km.  However it's done all the time at the dealer for customers who intend to keep their cars or pass them on to family.  At 96,000 km, which is usually 5 years, that Toyota tranny fluid is more than completely degraded and my experience is with highway cars.  City run cars must be worse (stop and go in high heat).

A dump and fill in a 4 banger Camry is 3 1/2 litres out of approx. 12 litres.  Essentially all it does is replenish SOME of the tranny fluid additives.  Cost is approx. 28 bucks tax in.

Bought a used 98 S70 Volvo off a Toronto dealer for the wife many moons ago.  It was off lease, but had full service history.  Tranny service at 48k on an automatic.  It had 80K on it at time of sale and I did it soon after again.  That kind of sealed the deal for me.  I wasn't going to buy an automatic Volvo with no tranny service in 4 years or 80K km.

 Coolant at 128,000km.

Long life coolant starts to go south after year 3.  Should be changed by year 4 for sure.

[Squishy]

If the GM trannys are serviced about every 65,000 miles or 100 thousand klicks then they will run for years with great dependability. It usually runs around $100. to $139. depending on who does the work for a complete filter and fluid service. i would recommend useing distilled water in the anti-freeze as well as it does not promote the white guck that forms in rads. Its about $1.99 a gal jug at the drugstores. I always have some in the shop here at home. Good for low batteries as well if you have the type that can be added to. 

Oh, I agree.  For the GM transmissions I siphon the fluid every 100,000 km and change the filter every 200,000 km.  They all get converted to Dexron VI.  They are bulletproof if you keep up with maintenance.

Thanks.
Found 1: http://www.online.petro-canada.ca/bulkplants/Bulk-Details.asp?l=E&site_id=04048

also more details here:
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/en/products/594.aspx

So which do you think would be best for the Sonata? It says 5w20 on the "7I0" lid and 5w20 or 5w30 in the book.

Toronto doesn't get as cold as some of the surrounding, less developed areas (windchill doesn't count), so 5W-20 should work well.  However, if you want the Petro Canada stuff or just added cold-start protection, 0W-30 "Arctic" is the cheapest one.  I think the other grades of synthetic are $1.50 more per litre.

[SkiBunny]

so I play it conservative.

are you actually conservative or neo-conservative?     

[shawcross]

5w20 its perfect for any weather