Is this oil okay or a concern for my car?

[SkiBunny]

Just took my old car in to Green & Ross for an oil change.     

It's a 10-yr-old Ford Escort with 168,000 km on it.  Use it mostly just to commute 5 km daily.

The owner's manual says use 5W30 only.  That's what I requested.

They put it 5w20 (non-synthetic castrol gtx), and when I protested, they said they "put in what's right for the car".

Should that oil be a concern or is it okay?  I've searched the threads so I realize the 5w20 is newer & thinner etc, but what I don't know is if 5w20 is indeed "right for the car", or whether I should go back and insist they put in the 5w30 the manual recommends.

 

[rrocket]

It's fine.  They are trying to push 5W20 because it's a bit more fuel efficient.  The only situation where 5W30 would be better is in VERY high operating temps.....Or very hot outdoor weather.

[EV Dan]

Ok First thing you do before the engine seizes up is pour in some what my mechanic calls "honey" which is a 500ml bottle of gooey stuff sold in walmart or crappy. With that you are perfectly fine till the next oil change.
2. Find a mechanic, not a high school student.
3. Buy your own oil. For my other car, Pontiac GrandAm, with almost 300 clicks I figured it was the happiest with either 10W-something High Mileage oil or 15W-40 can of ESSO sold at gas stations or walmart.
4. Have fun 

[rrocket]

Ok First thing you do before the engine seizes up

Very misleading thing to say....bordering on stupid....

[EV Dan]

Yeah, thanks. I know whats good for Supra is good for everything else. Why do you think they sell oil additives to make oil thicker. Have you never heard how older engines start knocking when a youngster decides its a smart thing to switch to synthetic? You have your opinion, I have mine, so unless you can link to something saying 5w20 is best for a worn out engine, no point to call any advise "misleading"

[SkiBunny]

Ok thank you rrocket,
twice

[SkiBunny]

Yeah, thanks. I know whats good for Supra is good for everything else. Why do you think they sell oil additives to make oil thicker. Have you never heard how older engines start knocking when a youngster decides its a smart thing to switch to synthetic? You have your opinion, I have mine, so unless you can link to something saying 5w20 is best for a worn out engine, no point to call any advise "misleading"

Hmm, now I'm confused 

I don't think the engine is worn out yet... Or is every gas engine with 168k kms basically worn-out?
I don't have to top-up the oil between changes (but it doesn't get driven far anymore, and also it's only had 5w30 not 5w20 before, lol)

[EV Dan]

Yeah, thanks. I know whats good for Supra is good for everything else. Why do you think they sell oil additives to make oil thicker. Have you never heard how older engines start knocking when a youngster decides its a smart thing to switch to synthetic? You have your opinion, I have mine, so unless you can link to something saying 5w20 is best for a worn out engine, no point to call any advise "misleading"

Hmm, now I'm confused 

Should have made it a poll 

[rrocket]

Yeah, thanks. I know whats good for Supra is good for everything else. Why do you think they sell oil additives to make oil thicker. Have you never heard how older engines start knocking when a youngster decides its a smart thing to switch to synthetic? You have your opinion, I have mine, so unless you can link to something saying 5w20 is best for a worn out engine, no point to call any advise "misleading"

I don't run it in the Supra FWIW.  I run 0W50.  However, I've read 2 papers (One of them might be at BITOG) that says 5W20 actually lubricates BETTER than 5W30 because it's able to get into the top most part of the piston ring area better than 5W30.  The slightly (if at all) better fuel economy was just a bonus of sorts.  I also saw a TSB from Lexus/Toyota that says 5W20 is ok to switch to from 5W30., and IIRC Ford is doing the same now.

Further, many of the cars from the Far East run 5W20 in their domestic market.  Sold outside of the country, those same cars HAD to run 5W30 because of the (previous) lack of 5W20 oils available in North America.

Go look at the data sheets on 5W30 vs. 5W20 engine oils, and you'll see there are nearly identical...

To say a 5W20 oil would seize an engine IS misleading...

[SkiBunny]

I see.  But this is an older ford with a ford engine, not a newer toyota.   
Maybe it's like comparing a fine sewing machine (new toyota) with knitting needles (old ford)? LOL

Thanks for the advice to look up the data sheets of the respective oils.  I never knew data sheets existed for oil, so I'll search around.

[EV Dan]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,56147.0.html

- some more on oil for you, SkiBunny.

"To say a 5W20 oil would seize an engine IS misleading..."
Ok, I agree. It may or may not. However most of independent mechanics I spoke to all agreed that thicker oil is better for older engines. 300,000 km on GrandAm is just another proof.

[rrocket]

As I said...Ford also has/had a TSB saying 5W20 was OK to replace 5W30 with.  I'm wondering if that's why the garage chose the 5W20??

[rrocket]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,56147.0.html

- some more on oil for you, SkiBunny.

"To say a 5W20 oil would seize an engine IS misleading..."
Ok, I agree. It may or may not. However most of independent mechanics I spoke to all agreed that thicker oil is better for older engines. 300,000 km on GrandAm is just another proof.

Actually, the opposite is often true.  A thicker oil (in a car designed for thinner oil) often won't lubricate as well.  It also increases heat and can cause "hot spots".  Additionally, if the engine was originally rated for 5W30 and you now run 10W30, there's a chance of lesser cold start protection, especially in the winter.  Back in the day (old mechanics) DID go with thicker oil in older engines because, at the time, engines didn't have the same tight tolerances we have today and would get sloppy as they aged.  So they ran a thicker oil to "plug" any leakage that may occur.  Today, we have oil that are "high mileage" oils that have swelling agents for seals and additional detergents.

[EV Dan]

As I said...Ford also has/had a TSB saying 5W20 was OK to replace 5W30 with.  I'm wondering if that's why the garage chose the 5W20??

They chose it for the lack anything else  Does it actually say on that TSB that older cars will benefit from 5w20, besides achieving better mileage?

[rrocket]

^^^^I have an EXTREMELY hard time believing a garage had harder-to-find 5W20 on the shelf but not the readily available 5W30 on the shelf.....


As far as the switch in the TSB?  It doesn't even say anything about the extra mileage (but that's why people are supposedly using it now).  It just stated that 5W20 was an acceptable replacement for 5W30. 

The ONLY advantage to 5W30, like I said is in VERY high temperatures.  I THINK it had about a 20-30 degree advantage.  Not much IMO.


I'll see if I can dig up the TSB.

[wing]

I ran my stratus with no oil, still works great

[EV Dan]

Many garages have a big plastic barrel with oil, and in many cases it is Castrol. They use one viscosity in summer and another for winter (if that) no matter what car.

[EV Dan]

I ran my stratus with no oil, still works great

That pretty much settles it    What colour is the smoke now? 

[SkiBunny]

Does it actually say on that TSB that older cars will benefit from 5w20, besides achieving better mileage?

Yeah I dont care about mileage or benefits...
I just don't want to kill the car engine by using an oil that's not the 5w30 in the manual.
As before we (actually the b/f) killed the engine on our old Talon Turbo by using too-thin oil or something, it was his fault not the technician's so he was peeved at himself haha.

[rrocket]

Found the TSB.  The garage is correct.  Ford now recommend 5W20 for her car.

TSB
02-1-9
   

    * ENGINE - ENGINE OIL - RECOMMENDED APPLICATIONS FOR SAE 5W-20 AND SAE 5W-30 MOTOR OILS - GASOLINE AND FLEXIBLE FUEL VEHICLES ONLY

Publication Date: JANUARY 14, 2002

FORD:
1992-2002 CROWN VICTORIA
1993-1994 TEMPO
1993-1997 THUNDERBIRD
1993-2002 ESCORT, MUSTANG, TAURUS
1995-2000 CONTOUR
1998-2002 ESCORT ZX2
2000-2002 FOCUS
1993-1996 BRONCO
1993-1997 AEROSTAR
1993-2002 E SERIES, F-150, RANGER
1995-2002 WINDSTAR
1997-1999 F-250 LD
1997-2001 EXPLORER
1997-2002 EXPEDITION
1999-2002 SUPER DUTY F SERIES, SUPER DUTY F-53 STRIPPED CHAS.
2000-2002 EXCURSION
2001-2002 ESCAPE
LINCOLN:
   1991-2002 TOWN CAR
1993-1998 MARK VIII
1993-2002 CONTINENTAL
2000-2002 LS
1998-2002 NAVIGATOR
MERCURY:
   1992-2002 GRAND MARQUIS
1993-1994 TOPAZ
1993-1997 COUGAR
1993-1999 TRACER
1993-2002 SABLE
1995-2000 MYSTIQUE
1999-2002 COUGAR
1997-2001 MOUNTAINEER

This article is being republished in its entirety to update the vehicle models, engines and years affected.

NOTE:    PLEASE REFER TO THE VEHICLE APPLICATION LIST LATER IN THIS TSB FOR A COMPLETE LIST OF VEHICLES AFFECTED BY THIS TSB.

ISSUE:

Ford Motor Company now recommends SAE 5W-20 viscosity grade for servicing most gasoline and flexible fueled vehicles.

ACTION:

All 2001 and 2002 vehicles where SAE 5W-20 is specified should be serviced at the recommended oil change intervals using SAE 5W-20. This oil is an improved formulation to improve fuel economy. Testing has validated this viscosity grade can be used in many previous model year vehicles. It is recommended ALL vehicles on the following Vehicle Application Listing be service with SAE 5W-20.

All 2001-2002 vehicles other than those listed in the "Exception 2001 Vehicles" or "Exception 2002 Vehicles" chart are being filled with SAE 5W-20 motor oil at the factory and should also be serviced with SAE 5W-20 oil.
Vehicle Application Listing Approved For SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil

    * 1993-1996 1.9L Escort/Tracer
    * 1995-2000 2.0L Zetec Contour/Mystique
    * 1999-2002 2.0L Cougar
    * 1997-2002 2.0L Escort/Tracer
    * 1998-2002 2.0L Escort ZX2
    * 2000-2002 2.0L Focus
    * 2001-2002 2.0L Escape
    * 1993-1997 2.3L Ranger
    * 1993-1994 2.3L Mustang
    * 1993-1994 2.3L Tempo/Topaz
    * 1998-2001 2.5L Ranger
    * 1995-2000 2.5L Contour/Mystique
    * 1999-2002 2.5L Cougar
    * 2001-2002 3.0L 4V Escape
    * 1996-2001 3.0L 4V Taurus/Sable
    * 1993-2002 3.0L (Vulcan) Aerostar/Ranger, Taurus/Sable (Flexible Fuel and Gas)
    * 1995-2000 3.0L (Vulcan) Windstar
    * 1993-1994 3.0L (Vulcan) Tempo/Topaz
    * 2000-2002 3.0L 4V Lincoln LS
    * 1995-2002 3.8L Windstar
    * 1993-1997 3.8L Taurus/Sable, Thunderbird/Cougar, Continental
    * 1994-2002 3.8L Mustang
    * 2002-2002 3.9L 4V Lincoln LS
    * 1997-2002 4.2L (SPI) F-150 (under 8500 GVW only), E-Series