Topic: CD Article: 2009 Porsche 911

[Autos_Editor]

         
First Drive:


Key changes to the 2009 911 include new engines with direct fuel injection, more horsepower and better fuel economy; and a wonderful new double clutch, seven-speed manual/automatic "PDK" transmission that replaces the Tiptronic S, reports Senior Editor, Paul Williams.
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[1TSX]

 

[TopGun]

I'm surprised that I see way more 911s than Caymans.

Surely, the 911s don't deliver a 50% better driving premium ($64K vs $95K).

Then again, doing a price comarison on Porsches may be silly.

[Mitlov]

I'm surprised that I see way more 911s than Caymans.

Surely, the 911s don't deliver a 50% better driving premium ($64K vs $95K).

Then again, doing a price comarison on Porsches may be silly.

But then one could say "is a Cayman really twice as good as a Miata?  Is a Ferrari Enzo really ten times as good as a 911 Carrera?  Etc.  Those sorts of cold, number-crunching analyses don't generally work with higher-end enthusiast cars.

[kevlar]

agreed.  but it is funny sitting back and watching a company hobble their mid range car so it won't out run their ill handling "big gun". 

[The Mighty Duck]

agreed.  but it is funny sitting back and watching a company hobble their mid range car so it won't out run their ill handling "big gun". 

This is a good point.  I'm reminded of Top Gear testing the Boxster a few years ago, and Clarkson's contention that "the only reason people buy a Boxster is they can't afford a 911".  :/  The Boxster/Cayman are fantastic, but they could be even better...

I wonder if Porsche would find it worthwhile to push the 911 more upmarket (i.e. kill the Carerra and just leave the Turbo and GT models), and offer a better Cayman to fill the void?

Then again, they tried replacing the 911 with a more "modern car" once, and it never really took off.

[TopGun]

But then one could say "is a Cayman really twice as good as a Miata?  Is a Ferrari Enzo really ten times as good as a 911 Carrera?  Etc.  Those sorts of cold, number-crunching analyses don't generally work with higher-end enthusiast cars.

I agree they generally don't work...I'm just applying them to these two Porsche (or is that Porsches?) with the back-drop that the Cayman may be the superior car.

I'll add to Demosthenes X's post ...Georg Kachar of the publication CAR has driven some awesome machinery...and when he first drove the Cayman, he stated that Cayman was the furture of Porsche is was THAT good.

Railton's post of AutoExpress Performance Car of the year has the Cayman S in second...and the GT2 in 10th.

[Mitlov]

I agree they generally don't work...I'm just applying them to these two Porsche (or is that Porsches?) with the back-drop that the Cayman may be the superior car.

Is a Vantage "superior" to a DBS?  It's certainly more agile.  Is a Gallardo "superior" to a Murcielago?  I suspect it's more agile.  The Cayman may be the superior car for you.  The 911 may be a superior car for someone else (i.e., MDX5, wherever he went).  I'm not sure either is superior, full stop.

By the way, I once read a review in some magazine where they put one of the more powerful engines in the Cayman.  If I recall correctly, the handling went to .  Smaller lighter engines are part of what makes a Cayman a Cayman.

[The Mighty Duck]

I think the point is, it should (in theory) be inherently easier to make the Cayman into a great car than a 911, because it starts life as a mid-engine car.  Remember, Porsche used to hang weights off the front bumper of the 911 to achieve the desired weight distribution...

If Porsche really wanted to, I'm confident they could make the Cayman a better car than the base 911.  They might even be able to make it a better car than the GT3, who knows?

[safristi]

I'm prepared to sell my soul to the devil fer a Cayman...but either he has them ALL stashed in HELL(aka California) or my SEOUL is part KIM Jon whatsisfeathers....

[Giant Dwarf]

But then one could say "is a Cayman really twice as good as a Miata? 

Owning an MX-5 and having driven a current generation Boxster a number of times, I can tell you:  Yes.  Yes it definitely is. 

[safristi]

...BOXTERS    OR     briefs spells of semi acceleration eh!!!!

[TopGun]

Is a Vantage "superior" to a DBS?  It's certainly more agile.  Is a Gallardo "superior" to a Murcielago?  I suspect it's more agile.  The Cayman may be the superior car for you.  The 911 may be a superior car for someone else (i.e., MDX5, wherever he went).  I'm not sure either is superior, full stop.

By the way, I once read a review in some magazine where they put one of the more powerful engines in the Cayman.  If I recall correctly, the handling went to .  Smaller lighter engines are part of what makes a Cayman a Cayman.

Round and round we go...

A $3,000 Corolla is the superior car for many folks out there.

It's always a personal decision Mitlov...reducing the Cayman/911 discussion to a personal decision seems to fly in the face of many of the fun discussions we have on this board.

I don't see you've offered much to counter the argument that the Cayman is superior to the 911 when you factor price...for all of the reasons stated by Demosthenes X.

[Jameel]

I think the point is, it should (in theory) be inherently easier to make the Cayman into a great car than a 911, because it starts life as a mid-engine car.  Remember, Porsche used to hang weights off the front bumper of the 911 to achieve the desired weight distribution...

If Porsche really wanted to, I'm confident they could make the Cayman a better car than the base 911.  They might even be able to make it a better car than the GT3, who knows?

Of course they could, but that will never happen. Porsche will never make a car that outshines, the iconic, 911.  Although we all know a mid-engine car will always be better handling than an car with engine in the back-end.  They just make way too much money on the 911.

[Mitlov]

It's always a personal decision Mitlov...reducing the Cayman/911 discussion to a personal decision seems to fly in the face of many of the fun discussions we have on this board.

I don't see you've offered much to counter the argument that the Cayman is superior to the 911 when you factor price...for all of the reasons stated by Demosthenes X.

The 911 offers 345 horsepower and four seats (though two are best suited to kids or cargo) while offering the same fuel economy as the 245 hp, two-seat Cayman.  How's that for ya?

That remarkable power-to-fuel-economy ratio doesn't come cheap.  Neither does making a four-seater handle as well as most two-seat sports caras.

[The Mighty Duck]

That remarkable power-to-fuel-economy ratio doesn't come cheap.  Neither does making a four-seater handle as well as most two-seat sports caras.

   The 911 is a four-seater in name only.  The rear seats are useful only if you lack legs.  Porsche did not "make a four-seater handle as well as most two-seat sports cars", they just shoehorned a parcel shelf into the back and called them seats.

There are many, many reasons to adore the 911.  It's rear seats are not one of them.

Of course they could, but that will never happen. Porsche will never make a car that outshines, the iconic, 911.

Which is why I suggest they retain the remarkable 911 Turbo and GT3/GT2 variants.  Replace the base Carerra/Carerra S with an enhanced Cayman.  They could make as much money on a Cayman as they do on a Carerra if it was priced at the same point (likely more, since development costs would likely be lower).

I don't think it will ever happen - 911 fans would mutiny - but it's an interesting thought.  Porsche has tried to replace the 911 (remember the 928?  Fantastic machine - better than the 911, in many respects), but fans simply would not have it.  And I think that remains the case.

I'd still love to see a Cayman "let of the leash", as it were.  In looks I actually almost prefer the Cayman to its bigger brother...

[Mitlov]

  The 911 is a four-seater in name only.  The rear seats are useful only if you lack legs.  Porsche did not "make a four-seater handle as well as most two-seat sports cars", they just shoehorned a parcel shelf into the back and called them seats.

There are many, many reasons to adore the 911.  It's rear seats are not one of them.

Remember MD?  His kids had legs, didn't they?

[tpl]

IIRC his kids legs still fitted into kid seats.

[The Mighty Duck]

Remember MD?  His kids had legs, didn't they?

And the number one demographic Porsche caters to is dads with infant children? 

[tpl]

Really? I thought is was dads with trophy girlfriends