Topic: Michelin X-Ice Xi2 vs Blizzak LM-25 vs Nokian WRG2

[Traum]

I'm looking for some winter rubber for my NC Miata in Vancouver, and I've more or less narrowed it down to the following 3 choices:

1) Michelin X-Ice Xi2
2) Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25
3) Nokian WRG2

As you probably know, the Michelin and Bridgestone are winter tires, while the Nokian  is an all-weather (but not 4-season) tire. If I go with the Michelins or Bridgestones, I'll have a set of summer and winter tires. If I go with the Nokians, that'll be my year-round tire.

I'm asking for opinions b/c as much as I'd like to have dedicated sets of summer and winter rubber, tire storage is a bit of an issue for me. It can be arranged, but it's a little troublesome. On the other hand, if the Nokians are not grippy enough to tackle snow / slush / ice on Vancouver's hilly terrain (I live and work in the hilly part of town), I'd bite the bullet and keep 2 sets of tires.

For the record, price is not a major concern because they all cost around $180 to $200 per tire.

Any suggestions / comments would be very much welcomed and appreciated.

-Lik

[Subie-Ex-Camry]

See the post "Nokian Hakkapeliita" on the same page as yours. TJSask says the WR wears out fast in summer.

I have used mine for four winters and find they are excellent on dry, wet, snowy & icy roads in Southern Ontario.

[Traum]

See the post "Nokian Hakkapeliita" on the same page as yours. TJSask says the WR wears out fast in summer.

I have used mine for four winters and find they are excellent on dry, wet, snowy & icy roads in Southern Ontario.

Hey Subie/Camry,

It seems to me that TJSask has mistakenly listened to his tire shop and used the Hakka (a snow/ice tire) year round, and thus the summer conditions grounded the tires down in no time.

The WR/WRG2, on the other hand, are supposed to all weather tires that are acceptable for summer duty. So most likely, they won't wear down nearly as fast as the Hakka.

-Lik

[UmroAyyar]

I live in Toronto and drive a 2007 Toyota Camry. Mild winters here, not too much icy (some city roads were encountered), mostly slushy, wet pavement due to salt used.

Using Nokian WR G2 since september last year.

These are very adequate tires all round the year, v.v. sticky in summer, v.good grip on wet hot/cold pavement, decent in snow and adequate on icy roads. Its still a compromise, since these are performance winter tires.

If you can run two sets of tires, please do so. If you think you are not going to drive your car in extreme conditions WR G2 works pretty well.

[morty]

These are all very different tires. Xi2 is softer compund and will give you the best winter performance, but softer tread means more tread squirm and quicker wear. Michelin claims that this tire lasts longer, b ut when compared to the LM25 or WRG2 they will wear quicker. Blizzak LM25 is a performance winter that will not give you as good deep snow and ice performance, but will give you reasonable and better high-speed stability, handling and wear. WRG2 is a compromise and will give you decent in all catagories, but not excellent.

[Traum]

Thanks for the info on the tires, Morty.

My daily commute consists of around 50% city driving and 50% freeway cruising. The city driving is not all stop-and-go, but the area where I work is quite hilly, and I'll have to do quite a bit of standing starts and complete stops going both up and downhill. The stretch of freeway would take me up to anywhere between 60km/h to 100km/h on a good day, but naturally, I'll slow down when road conditions are poorer. Of course, when road conditions are good, I'd like to stretch the Miata's legs a bit more even when it's cold out.

Given these requirements, which of the three tires would you recommend?

-Lik

[Dave L]

Have you been to www.miata.net ? there's a review section there. I'm on the miata forum a lot because I've had 5 miata's...no NC (yet ;-)  )

Morty's advice is gold. Just suggesting another source. If it were mine I would like optimum tires for summer, and optimum tires for winter. The Miata is so much fun to drive. And it's great in the winter with 4 snows (and a hardtop in my case.)  I've been a ski instructor for 35 years. Ice worries me more than snow, so that would skew my choice....ymmv

DaveL

[rsg]

See the post "Nokian Hakkapeliita" on the same page as yours. TJSask says the WR wears out fast in summer.

I have used mine for four winters and find they are excellent on dry, wet, snowy & icy roads in Southern Ontario.

I have 110,000km on a set of WR's.  From the hottest weather to 40 below. 

I'm fairly conservative when it comes to driving the car, as the suspension and tire size 185/65/15 do not lend themselves to aggressive driving.

I'm currently in the market for some 205/55/16 for a mazda, and I wouldn't expect that mileage.

The michelin and blizzak are going to be a bit better than the WR's when conditions are really bad.  For me it was a convenience factor as I leave the WR's on all year long.  Prior to these, I used dedicated Nokian Q's which worked better.

[AVToller]

I finally broke down and replaced the Toyos on my Yaris. With half of the usable tread life remaining (7/32) they had become utterly useless in the wet, and I was not about to even try to get through another winter with them.

I went with Nokian WR G2s and am thrilled with them so far. Amazingly quiet and comfortable riding for such an aggressive tread pattern, even at highway speeds, and they are super in the wet. They also are much more responsive to driver input than the tires they replaced. I got them at the local Kal Tire dealer, and the purchase process was great. They were $37 LESS than the price quoted at 1010, and the installation/balancing fee was waved. The manager was very knowledgeable, friendly, and eager to please. Best tire buying experience I can ever remember. The other local shops were all terrible in various ways. 

[Trainman]

I finally broke down and replaced the Toyos on my Yaris. With half of the usable tread life remaining (7/32) they had become utterly useless in the wet, and I was not about to even try to get through another winter with them.

I went with Nokian WR G2s and am thrilled with them so far. Amazingly quiet and comfortable riding for such an aggressive tread pattern, even at highway speeds, and they are super in the wet. They also are much more responsive to driver input than the tires they replaced. I got them at the local Kal Tire dealer, and the purchase process was great. They were $37 LESS than the price quoted at 1010, and the installation/balancing fee was waved. The manager was very knowledgeable, friendly, and eager to please. Best tire buying experience I can ever remember. The other local shops were all terrible in various ways. 

Ross, I am glad you had good experiences with Kal, 'cause I sure have not with our local shop.  I would have looked very hard at the Nokian WR SUV if they had not been so uniformed and.......well, enough of that.  I really like the idea of the WR series, keep us informed of how the do when (IF  ) you get snow.

[rsg]

See the post "Nokian Hakkapeliita" on the same page as yours. TJSask says the WR wears out fast in summer.

I have used mine for four winters and find they are excellent on dry, wet, snowy & icy roads in Southern Ontario.

Hey Subie/Camry,

It seems to me that TJSask has mistakenly listened to his tire shop and used the Hakka (a snow/ice tire) year round, and thus the summer conditions grounded the tires down in no time.

The WR/WRG2, on the other hand, are supposed to all weather tires that are acceptable for summer duty. So most likely, they won't wear down nearly as fast as the Hakka.

-Lik

I've been using Nokian WR's all-year round, and have 110,000km out of them.  Bought them at 52,000 and I'm at around 162,000.   They're now at the stage where they need to be replaced.  The ride is rougher now and the noise from them as gone up - but I cannot complain about the mileage.

warranty is as follows: 30/35/40/45/50 Series - 50,000km, 60/65/70 Series - 100,000km

So just based on the warranty, there is a big difference in what mileage to expect.   And of course, theres your driving style which will be a huge factor.

I had Q's before the WR's and you obviously give up some performance by using the 'all-weather' tire.  They tend to get pretty noisy as they wear down.

 

[AVToller]

I've been using Nokian WR's all-year round, and have 110,000km out of them.  Bought them at 52,000 and I'm at around 162,000.   They're now at the stage where they need to be replaced.  The ride is rougher now and the noise from them as gone up - but I cannot complain about the mileage.

warranty is as follows: 30/35/40/45/50 Series - 50,000km, 60/65/70 Series - 100,000km

So just based on the warranty, there is a big difference in what mileage to expect.   And of course, theres your driving style which will be a huge factor.

I had Q's before the WR's and you obviously give up some performance by using the 'all-weather' tire.  They tend to get pretty noisy as they wear down.

Thanks for the information. The Toyos got MUCH noisier and harsher as they wore - to the point that they were unacceptable with 7/32 tread left even if they HAD provided any traction. The Nokians are whisper quiet and smooth as silk by comparison. I do expect them to get nosier and harsher as the wear, but it's nice to know that such good mileage is possible with them. Mine are 60 series, but I'll be very satisfied if I can get 60,000 with good traction and moderate comfort. Now that they are getting broken in, I've tried a few more spirited maneuvers in the Port rain, and I am completely impressed. Bring on the snow!! 

[Calbrez]

I finally broke down and replaced the Toyos on my Yaris. With half of the usable tread life remaining (7/32) they had become utterly useless in the wet, and I was not about to even try to get through another winter with them.

I went with Nokian WR G2s and am thrilled with them so far. Amazingly quiet and comfortable riding for such an aggressive tread pattern, even at highway speeds, and they are super in the wet. They also are much more responsive to driver input than the tires they replaced. I got them at the local Kal Tire dealer, and the purchase process was great. They were $37 LESS than the price quoted at 1010, and the installation/balancing fee was waved. The manager was very knowledgeable, friendly, and eager to please. Best tire buying experience I can ever remember. The other local shops were all terrible in various ways. 

I also had an excellent experience with Kal in the Toronto area.. Good to know they are located on the west coast, too.. 

I bought my WR Nokians from them and the tire and the experience with Kal was great. They balance and rotate  for the balance of the ties life..

I am about to buy an Outback and will need to make a similar decision - dedicated winters or something like the WR again... i wonder what is more economical?

[AVToller]

I also had an excellent experience with Kal in the Toronto area.. Good to know they are located on the west coast, too.. 

Kal Tire started in Vernon, BC. 

http://www.kaltire.com/corporate/about_us/history.php

[Calbrez]

I also had an excellent experience with Kal in the Toronto area.. Good to know they are located on the west coast, too.. 

Kal Tire started in Vernon, BC. 

http://www.kaltire.com/corporate/about_us/history.php

CONGRATULATIONS TO VERNON, BC   

[Noobee]

I think I'm going with the Xi2's. Costco has the best price on them right now and if you need steelies, some Costco locations have rims as well.

[Noobee]

Just an FYI. I returned my X-Ice i2s shortly after buying them. Although they are probably the best NONstuddless tire out there, they perform rather poorly on wet or deep snow. Their tread is not aggressive at all.  I reckon the positive reviews about them are those comparing the X-Ice i2s with all seasons or have a vehicle that performs well in snow in general.  Dont forget, the X-Ice i2s are marketed as an ice tire.  You may have to read the promo material a few times to realize it.

Any how, I was at Kal-Tire today and I was suggested I go for the WRG2s.  I need some new tires in the spring and I just bought some cable chains from them today. I figure with the WRG2s and the Shur Z chains, I shall be able to handle any situation.  However, I am concerned on how fast the WRG2s will wear.

[rrocket]

Just an FYI. I returned my X-Ice i2s shortly after buying them. Although they are probably the best NONstuddless tire out there, they perform rather poorly on wet or deep snow. Their tread is not aggressive at all.  I reckon the positive reviews about them are those comparing the X-Ice i2s with all seasons or have a vehicle that performs well in snow in general.  Dont forget, the X-Ice i2s are marketed as an ice tire.  You may have to read the promo material a few times to realize it.

Any how, I was at Kal-Tire today and I was suggested I go for the WRG2s.  I need some new tires in the spring and I just bought some cable chains from them today. I figure with the WRG2s and the Shur Z chains, I shall be able to handle any situation.  However, I am concerned on how fast the WRG2s will wear.

I disagree completely.  I've owned almost every brand of winter tire here over the years.  And flat out..the Xi2 is the best winter tire I've used.....and on a car I'd generally consider not the most winter friendly...I actually swapped out LM-25 when I put the Xi2 on...and did back to back testing prior to the fitment of the new Xi2.  In every way the Xi2 outperformed the LM-25

However...your results may vary...

[wing]

The Xi2 is the best tire (equivalent with Nokia RSi and Bridgestone WS60) I tested all three in various conditions, deep deep snow, ice, packed snow, the Xi2 was on par with the best.

[Noobee]

Just curious.  Have you owned the Blizzak WS-60?  These are fairly new tires. Perhaps you're comparing old technolgy with the new technology so you feel the X-Ice i2s are great?  I've also been doing inquiries and it's really a mixed bag about these tires. People either love them, or they hate them.  Their effectiveness has a LOT to do with your snow conditons (I'm in Vancouver, with wet deep snow) and they were almost useless during the nasty snow we've had over the last month. It also depends on the vehicle and model.  All things being equal, the X-Ice i2s are not the best snow tire but they are probably the best "studless ice tire". Even Michelin doesn't really dispute what I've been saying about the X-Ice i2s.  Here is an excerpt from their ad which I agree with:

Winter Control With Confidence
A wide tread contact patch generates acceleration and braking power, as well as cornering traction, for outstanding winter maneuvering. Supporting knobs help provide stability on wet and dry roads in the winter, helping the X-Ice Xi2 tire deliver the best overall winter traction, along with superior ice performance.2

wing, perhaps back east.  Even most local tire retailers, Kal-Tire for example, say the RSIs beat the crap out of the Xi2 in the Vancouver deep wet snow. The Blizzaks are the best, but also wear the most. BTW, what you wrote is like a carbon copy of the Tire Rack road test review.   

The Xi2 is the best tire (equivalent with Nokia RSi and Bridgestone WS60) I tested all three in various conditions, deep deep snow, ice, packed snow, the Xi2 was on par with the best.