Author Topic: Production Volt (Read 47536 times)

TopGun · « **Reply #540 on:** November 30, 2009, 03:48:13 pm »

Autoblog takes the Chevy Volt for a spin.

"Now that we have driven the car in both charge depleting and charge sustaining modes, we can say that this car is definitely not vapor. The Volt is real and it certainly appears to work. Whether it can actually hit 40 miles on a charge, what mileage it will get in charge sustaining mode and how long the battery will last are questions that remain for another day."

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/30/2011-chevrolet-volt-quick-spin/

Oh...BTW...if you don't subscribe to the AutoBlog podcost, you're missing out. These guys give a balanced, real enthusiast's perspective on the cars they get to drive on a weekly basis.

rrocket · « **Reply #541 on:** November 30, 2009, 07:23:35 pm »

Yea, I read a test driver from InsideLIne. You can see it here: http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/2011-chevrolet-volt-first-drive-and-video.html

What stood out to me was "Volt chief engineer Andrew Farah makes it clear. "The Volt's [battery-only] range is up to 40 miles. Most people will get less than 40 miles. A few people will get more than 40."

Once the gasoline engine is fired up to sustain the charge, Farah reckons the Volt will run completely out of fuel — again, assuming you drive in a way that's similar to the EPA's city driving cycle — in another 300 miles. Since the Volt's fuel tank is presently 8 gallons in volume, this overall mileage expectation equates to more than 38 mpg when driving in this "charge-sustaining" mode."

So it seems unless you have less than a 40 mile round trip (who knows how much less that 40 miles it will get on EV mode) that means it's pretty much useless to everybody else, since it only gets ~38 MPG, roughly 12MPG less than a Prius, other frugal car. Did I read that correctly? That once you burn through the EV portion this thing only gets 38 MPG?

Other than that issue, seems like progress is progressing nicely on the test mules.

Juke1 · « **Reply #542 on:** November 30, 2009, 08:35:33 pm »

Ok, if I travel 40 miles on battery my Volt has gone this far without using gas, at this point let's say I need to travel another 20 miles to reach my destination and the car is let's say capable of 40 mpg. I will require 1/2 a gallon to complete my trip, so 60 miles on 1/2 a gallon = 120mpg. If I would have need to do another 40 instead of 20, that would equate to 80 miles for 1 gallon= 80mpg. I guess my question is, how much recharging can the small engine do so I could tip the scale back in my favor or will this decline continue on until I can do no better than 40mpg. The car is very sharp looking IMO.

rrocket · « **Reply #543 on:** November 30, 2009, 08:39:39 pm »

Quote from: Altima1 on November 30, 2009, 08:35:33 pm

Ok, if I travel 40 miles on battery my Volt has gone this far without using gas, at this point let's say I need to travel another 20 miles to reach my destination and the car is let's say capable of 40 mpg. I will require 1/2 a gallon to complete my trip, so 60 miles on 1/2 a gallon = 120mpg. If I would have need to do another 40 instead of 20, that would equate to 80 miles for 1 gallon= 80mpg. I guess my question is, how much recharging can the small engine do so I could tip the scale back in my favor or will this decline continue on until I can do no better than 40mpg. The car is very sharp looking IMO.

Yea it looks nice. Not offensive in the least. Yea....my questions sorta mirror yours. It didn't really say what the re-charge rate was, just that it had a charge sustain rate. Perhaps more info will come out as they work the bugs out?

At which point would one benefit more from having a standard gas car (or hybrid) than having a Volt? I suppose if you live really close to work, or the city and most of your trips are ~40 miles, it would be awesome. But in that case, you might buy the Leaf (if and when it ever comes out) and save yourself $15,000 USD. Or if you DO need the extra range, you might be better off with a Prius/Insight which ring in roughly $10,000 less (after the government cash back). That $10,000 difference buys ALOT of gas.

Man...get out yer calculators if you're on the fence about a Volt/Prius/Leaf/Insight/Whatever....!

Juke1 · « **Reply #544 on:** November 30, 2009, 08:58:43 pm »

One would assume that cash backs would be offered here as well. Personally I have 57.5 km to work one way, so at 115km daily the Leaf would work for me. I'm a civil servant and let's say the Gov't would come out with charging stations and we would pay by swiping a credit card in the machine or maybe an ID card and payroll deduction, that would be cool.

rrocket · « **Reply #545 on:** November 30, 2009, 09:05:21 pm »

Quote from: Altima1 on November 30, 2009, 08:58:43 pm

One would assume that cash backs would be offered here as well. Personally I have 57.5 km to work one way, so at 115km daily the Leaf would work for me. I'm a civil servant and let's say the Gov't would come out with charging stations and we would pay by swiping a credit card in the machine or maybe an ID card and payroll deduction, that would be cool.

I agree with you. For sure it would work for you, and many like you. But the Leaf is $25K before rebates and the Volt is $40K before rebates. If it comes down to money (and presumably saving on fuel costs is a partial reason to buy an EV) than GM may have an uphill battle competing on price.

airbalancer · « **Reply #546 on:** November 30, 2009, 09:19:16 pm »

Quote from: rrocket on November 30, 2009, 09:05:21 pm

Quote from: Altima1 on November 30, 2009, 08:58:43 pm
One would assume that cash backs would be offered here as well. Personally I have 57.5 km to work one way, so at 115km daily the Leaf would work for me. I'm a civil servant and let's say the Gov't would come out with charging stations and we would pay by swiping a credit card in the machine or maybe an ID card and payroll deduction, that would be cool.

I agree with you. For sure it would work for you, and many like you. But the Leaf is $25K before rebates and the Volt is $40K before rebates. If it comes down to money (and presumably saving on fuel costs is a partial reason to buy an EV) than GM may have an uphill battle competing on price.

Have you included the $150/month of the battery in a Leaf. Also I not believe the Leaf has a gas engine to produce electricity once the battery is dead
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/19/nissan-to-lease-leaf-battery-for-150-month/

Sir Osis of Liver · « **Reply #547 on:** November 30, 2009, 11:08:46 pm »

One of the nice things about Regina, all of the parking spaces typically have receptacles in front of them. All set to charge up during the day!

I'm 5.5km from work. Bus pass is $59/month. So $40k would buy me 56 years and 6 months worth of bus passes. Not even counting the tax credit.

articsteve · « **Reply #548 on:** November 30, 2009, 11:24:57 pm »

To date GM's proclamations on the VOLT's mileage is all aSSumption.

Assumption: is a proposition that is taken for granted, as if it were true based upon presupposition without preponderance of the facts.

Volt may travel up to 40 miles on single charge.

At what ambient temperature? How about San Fransisco or similar topography? Traffic jams?

A majority of the US population drives in summer temps of 90 degrees F. AC is an absolute must in those places. Did not GM base Volt operation at an ambient temperature of 60 - 65 degrees F? What about bumper to bumper traffic with an AC unit running full tilt or conversely with a heater and defroster running full tilt?

Here is what "Nick" had to say on the matter :

Nick explains that the test cycles include “a standard set of accessory loads,” but that “air conditioning is not included.” He says the testing “also assumes a 60 F to 65 F degree temperature.”

rrocket · « **Reply #549 on:** November 30, 2009, 11:30:14 pm »

^^Ok...I had wondered at what temp they had determined the 40 mile range. And without A/C...though to be fair I'm not sure other cars MPG figures use the A/C. But like you said...I wonder how much the A/C chops the load down? Or would the gas engine power the A/C or heater??

articsteve · « **Reply #550 on:** December 01, 2009, 12:14:26 am »

I suppose we should ask Bobby Orr.

From all I have read in this thread the Volt uses battery only until it reaches a certain level of depletion then the motor comes on as a generator.

So the million dollar question is how much juice does an AC unit use to cool a car the size of the Volt when the outside air is 80 to 90F standing on a LA freeway or in New York City rush hour inching along.

"Nick" also says this:

“When we do our calculations we include parasitic loads,” he says referring to computer modeling. “In mule development we are trying to bring those to a minimum because they take away from driving range.”

I think that best sums it up; AC, heater, both in stop and start rush hour are not included in the estimates.

So the obvious question is; how many "miles" out of the "40" does AC or heat scrub off. In other words hour many minutes can the Volt run with AC/heat?

Sir Osis of Liver · « **Reply #551 on:** December 01, 2009, 12:37:13 am »

So like every other car on the planet, "your mileage may vary"

rrocket · « **Reply #552 on:** December 01, 2009, 12:56:33 am »

Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on December 01, 2009, 12:37:13 am

So like every other car on the planet, "your mileage may vary"

Agreed. But I think in this case it's a bit more relevant on just how much variance there is. Afterall, the EV capability is this vehicles raison d'etre.

articsteve · « **Reply #553 on:** December 01, 2009, 01:32:57 am »

How long can the current Volt stand still ("idle") with outside temp at 90F in the sun with AC/fan operating keeping the cabin at 70F in EV mode before engine assist ? Not a hard test to complete.

Guess it can't be that good otherwise we'd be hearing all about it.

This AC/heat problem is gonna be a big issue with any EV unit.

rrocket · « **Reply #554 on:** December 01, 2009, 01:42:12 am »

Quote from: articsteve on December 01, 2009, 01:32:57 am

How long can the current Volt stand still ("idle") with outside temp at 90F in the sun with AC/fan operating keeping the cabin at 70F in EV mode before engine assist ? Not a hard test to complete.

Guess it can't be that good otherwise we'd be hearing all about it.

This AC/heat problem is gonna be a big issue with any EV unit.

Yes. In my Insight, there is a switch to over-ride the A/C when in the "auto-stop" mode so it doesn't kill the power when sitting with the engine "off"

Juke1 · « **Reply #555 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:33:23 am »

X2!

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/nissan-to-double-electric-car-battery-power-1831630.html

Shnak · « **Reply #556 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:06:02 am »

I have to say that the Leaf sounds a lot more promising than the Volt. Any ETA in regards to the Leaf coming to market in NA?

airbalancer · « **Reply #557 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:18:35 am »

Quote from: articsteve on December 01, 2009, 01:32:57 am

How long can the current Volt stand still ("idle") with outside temp at 90F in the sun with AC/fan operating keeping the cabin at 70F in EV mode before engine assist ? Not a hard test to complete.

Guess it can't be that good otherwise we'd be hearing all about it.

This AC/heat problem is gonna be a big issue with any EV unit.

Probably longer then a 2010 Prius

drederick · « **Reply #558 on:** December 01, 2009, 10:42:18 am »

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/los_angeles/2009/2011_chevrolet_volt/index.html

First Drive: 2011 Chevrolet Volt

The EV2, err Volt, we had the opportunity to drive today at Dodger Stadium represents a significant step towards the car's eventual production, slated for late 2010 as a 2011 model. And what are the big take-aways from today's limited, parking lot driving experience? One is that its engine/generator's start-up experience (which occurs after its EV-mode's battery charge has depleted to about 30 percent) is far more seamless than I ever would have expected. Two is that despite its other-worldly powertrain, the Volt drives remarkably like any normal car (mom would never know the difference). And three, those Volt skeptics out there are going to be badly embarrassed if they keep doubting the seriousness of this vehicle.

Sir Osis of Liver · « **Reply #559 on:** December 01, 2009, 02:00:22 pm »

Quote from: articsteve on December 01, 2009, 01:32:57 am

How long can the current Volt stand still ("idle") with outside temp at 90F in the sun with AC/fan operating keeping the cabin at 70F in EV mode before engine assist ? Not a hard test to complete.

Guess it can't be that good otherwise we'd be hearing all about it.

This AC/heat problem is gonna be a big issue with any EV unit.

Guesstimating a load of 2hp for the AC and fan, the Volt could power it for 5 hours before it hit it's lower charge limit (16 kWh (8.0 kWh usable) ). Of course then the generator kicks on.