Author Topic: Production Volt  (Read 47536 times)

Offline EV Dan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #140 on: August 06, 2009, 03:40:37 pm »
A little off topic, but still along the lines.

 Ontario invests $16.7 million in battery company

Toronto, Ontario - The Ontario government is investing up to $16.7 million in Electrovaya, a battery and clean transportation company in Mississauga, Ontario. The investment is part of an expansion that will include a $94.8 million investment by Electrovaya.

The government said that the expansion will help create 240 jobs and support 50 existing positions. The company’s patented battery technology lets cars drive further on a single charge than electric vehicles that use other batteries.

Electrovaya has already signed several deals with automakers in Europe, Asia and North America. Its Lithium Ion SuperPolymer battery is currently used in the Maya 300, a low-speed electric vehicle that is part of a new share-and-rental electric car program in Baltimore, Maryland.

Ontario wants one in 20 vehicles driven in the province to be electric by 2020.


http://www.canadiandriver.com/2009/08/05/ontario-invests-167-million-in-battery-company.htm
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Offline EV Dan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #141 on: August 09, 2009, 10:24:46 am »
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/08/09/what-is-230-gm-knows-but-isnt-say/



"The graphic above has been appearing all over the place -- television, billboards, elevators, baseball games, even people's shirts. It has a blog, Flickr and Facebook pages, and a YouTube channel. What it doesn't have is an explanation. Ad Age lined up the perps behind the online assets and discovered they all have a GM connection, and GM has a news conference scheduled for August 11.

The question is what that news conference will be about and how will the number 230 factor into it? Guesses so far range from the Buick PHEV announced yesterday (doubtful) to the Chevy Volt's mpg number (uhh, no) to, oddly enough, the Aptera. Feel free to add your own guess to the mix in the comments below... or to wait unti Tuesday for the 230 wizard to speak.
"

It seems pretty straight forward to me. GM will announce a new charging station for the Volt with something like 30min 80% charge capability.
Other ideas?

Offline airbalancer

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #142 on: August 09, 2009, 10:36:02 am »
you need a 230 v connect, but is that 3 phase or single phase  mmmmm
How many people know the difference between  single phase and 3 phase?

Offline G35X

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #143 on: August 09, 2009, 01:23:24 pm »
Ontario invests $16.7 million in battery company… “ – DanYanoff


That’s too little to be a major player…  another tax money wasted.

Take a look: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/recovery/pdfs/battery_awardee_list.pdf

Private sector is also spending a lot of its own money in battery production:
Nissan… $1 billion in U.S.
             $300 million in U.K.
Mitsubishi/GS Yuasa… $370 million
Toyota/Panasonic… $300 million
Hitachi… $300 million

Offline mmret

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #144 on: August 09, 2009, 02:53:52 pm »
you need a 230 v connect, but is that 3 phase or single phase  mmmmm
How many people know the difference between  single phase and 3 phase?


117 / sqrt(2) * cos (60*t)


OR


117 / (3 * sqrt(2)) * cos(60*t+0) + 117 / (3 * sqrt(2)) * cos(60*t+2*pi/3) + 117 / (3 * sqrt(2)) * cos(60*t+2*4*pi/3)


;D
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Offline airbalancer

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #145 on: August 09, 2009, 09:15:02 pm »
 :laugh:

Offline EV Dan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #146 on: August 11, 2009, 12:53:03 pm »
well, it was about MPG:
PRESS RELEASE:

Chevrolet Volt Expects 230 mpg in City Driving

* First mass-produced vehicle to claim more than 100 mpg composite fuel economy
* Tentative EPA methodology results show 25 kilowatt hours/100 miles electrical efficiency in city cycle
* Plugging in daily is key to high-mileage performance

WARREN, Mich. - The Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric vehicle is expected to achieve city fuel economy of at least 230 miles per gallon, based on development testing using a draft EPA federal fuel economy methodology for labeling for plug-in electric vehicles.

The Volt, which is scheduled to start production in late 2010 as a 2011 model, is expected to travel up to 40 miles on electricity from a single battery charge and be able to extend its overall range to more than 300 miles with its flex fuel-powered engine-generator.

"From the data we've seen, many Chevy Volt drivers may be able to be in pure electric mode on a daily basis without having to use any gas," said GM Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson. "EPA labels are a yardstick for customers to compare the fuel efficiency of vehicles. So, a vehicle like the Volt that achieves a composite triple-digit fuel economy is a game-changer."

According to U.S. Department of Transportation data, nearly eight of 10 Americans commute fewer than 40 miles a day http://tinyurl.com/U-S-DOTStudy .

"The key to high-mileage performance is for a Volt driver to plug into the electric grid at least once each day," Henderson said.

Volt drivers' actual gas-free mileage will vary depending on how far they travel and other factors, such as how much cargo or how many passengers they carry and how much the air conditioner or other accessories are used. Based on the results of unofficial development testing of pre-production prototypes, the Volt has achieved 40 miles of electric-only, petroleum-free driving in both EPA city and highway test cycles.

Under the new methodology being developed, EPA weights plug-in electric vehicles as traveling more city miles than highway miles on only electricity. The EPA methodology uses kilowatt hours per 100 miles traveled to define the electrical efficiency of plug-ins. Applying EPA's methodology, GM expects the Volt to consume as little as 25 kilowatt hours per 100 miles in city driving. At the U.S. average cost of electricity (approximately 11 cents per kWh), a typical Volt driver would pay about $2.75 for electricity to travel 100 miles, or less than 3 cents per mile.

The Chevrolet Volt uses grid electricity as its primary source of energy to propel the car. There are two modes of operation: Electric and Extended-Range. In electric mode, the Volt will not use gasoline or produce tailpipe emissions when driving. During this primary mode of operation, the Volt is powered by electrical energy stored in its 16 kWh lithium-ion battery pack.

When the battery reaches a minimum state of charge, the Volt automatically switches to Extended-Range mode. In this secondary mode of operation, an engine-generator produces electricity to power the vehicle. The energy stored in the battery supplements the engine-generator when additional power is needed during heavy accelerations or on steep inclines.

"The 230 city mpg number is a great indication of the capabilities of the Volt's electric propulsion system and its ability to displace gasoline," said Frank Weber, global vehicle line executive for the Volt. "Actual testing with production vehicles will occur next year closer to vehicle launch. However, we are very encouraged by this development, and we also think that it is important to continue to share our findings in real time, as we have with other aspects of the Volt's development."

About Chevrolet
Chevrolet is one of America 's best-known and best-selling automotive brands, and one of the fastest growing brands in the world. With fuel solutions that go from "gas-friendly to gas-free," Chevy has nine models that get 30 miles per gallon or more on the highway, and offers three hybrid models. More than 2.5 million Chevrolets that run on E85 biofuel have been sold. Chevy delivers expressive design, spirited performance and provides the best value in every segment in which it competes. More information on Chevrolet can be found at www.chevrolet.com. For more information on the Volt, visit http://media.gm.com/volt/.

General Motors Company, one of the world's largest automakers, traces its roots back to 1908. With its global headquarters in Detroit, GM employs 235,000 people in every major region of the world and does business in some 140 countries. GM and its strategic partners produce cars and trucks in 34 countries, and sell and service these vehicles through the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall and Wuling. More information on the new General Motors Company can be found at www.gm.com.

Offline Leviathan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #147 on: August 13, 2009, 02:08:36 am »
Chevy Volt is the real deal
Quote
Motor Mouth

David Booth, National Post  Published: Wednesday, August 12, 2009

I inadvertently played a small part in one of the most notorious conspiracy theories ever perpetuated on the automotive industry. If you're more than 40 years of age and therefore remember when cars were actually powered - or, more accurately, fuelled - by strange devices called carburetors, you probably remember the myth of the 100-miles-per-gallon carburetor.

Invented by Charles Nelson Pogue, a self-schooled Canadian engineer, the basic theory was that by atomizing the fuel entering the engine more completely, the Pogue carburetor was claimed to "unlock" hidden energy in the gasoline, rendering an otherwise profligate internal-combustion engine miraculously efficient.

When Pogue's carburetor failed to produce the revolution in motoring promised by 200 miles per gallon (the numbers kept escalating), conspiracy theories sprang up like so many sightings of Elvis working as a checkout boy at every Piggly Wiggly south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Depending on the exact source of your paranoia, either the government, Detroit's Big Three or the ever notorious "money men" - always in conjunction with Big Oil, I might add - either bought the patents/stole all of Pogue's working carburetors/threatened his life so that Exxon and Mobil could continue to fleece us of our petro dollars.

Even when faced with the devastation wrought to their businesses by the fuel crisis of 1973, the domestic automakers were still accused of suppressing this mythical technology. Of course, what possible advantage GM, Ford and Chrysler could achieve by filling the coffers of Exxon and Mobil was never fully explained.

My own part in the saga was largely coincidental. It just so happens that my very first job in the auto industry was technical editor for Canadian Automotive Trade (once the very tome of things automotive, now just so many ashes in someone's spring cleaning bonfire), which, in May, 1936, broke the story of Pogue driving 1,879 miles on just 14.5 gallons of liquefied dinosaur dung. I got a first-hand lesson in the power of mythology when, upon discovering the offending article in our archives, I wrote a long overdue mea culpa debunking the myth of Pogue's technology. Of course, what happened is that I awoke the latent paranoia of every tinfoil-toque-wearing UFO junkie, who wrote in to condemn my "selling out" to Big Oil. Or was it Big Auto? They never could keep their stories straight.

All of this is a long-winded musing brought on by General Motors' announcement this week that its upcoming Volt extended-range electric vehicle will get 230 miles per U.S. gallon (one litre per 100 km) and how it played in the media. The Volt, as you may know, is essentially an electric vehicle with a small 1.4-litre gasoline motor that acts like a generator if the Chevy's 16 kilowatt-hours lithium ion batteries should run out of juice (around the 64-kilometre mark, says GM).

Of course, GM is ecstatic about the news. Until now, the company had been limited to saying that many people may never use the gas engine at all. Remember, it operates on electricity alone for those first 64 klicks. This was a dramatic claim to be sure but fairly nebulous for most people for whom a quantifiable number is more meaningful than claiming you might never have to use gasoline again. But a number such as 230 miles per U.S. gallon in the urban driving cycle (the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has yet to rate highway mileage) dramatizes for even the General's most ardent skeptic that the Volt is no mere hybrid - plug-in or otherwise - with fuel economy that borders on the unbelievable.

Therein lies the worry. The news from the General is almost too good to be true. Indeed, it actually gets better, with the technocrats at GM's Pre-Production Operations (PPO) division claiming those first 64 km of electric-only operation will cost but US40¢ should you be charging in off-peak hours.

That this kind of miracle is coming from General Motors and not Toyota or Honda is sure to cause much consternation among Detroit's many detractors. Surely GM can't make lithium ion batteries work if the titans of Japan couldn't. Indeed, many skeptics have simply dismissed GM's entire Volt program as a public relations gambit meant to garner public interest, which would, at the last minute, fail to materialize.

I think those skeptics will eat their words. Certainly, the 20 pre-production prototypes I saw being assembled seem to point to the Volt being the real deal. Ditto the 60-plus other prototypes being crash tested, cold-weather tested and otherwise evaluated just like any other vehicle GM is about to bring to market in a short time.

Of course, it could all just be some massive conspiracy plot.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #148 on: August 13, 2009, 02:17:21 am »
I don't hear many gripes thinking the Volt isn't the "real deal"......
How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....

Offline Leviathan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #149 on: August 13, 2009, 03:29:22 am »
I don't hear many gripes thinking the Volt isn't the "real deal"......
You must have AS on ignore  :P

Offline drederick

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #150 on: August 13, 2009, 10:13:02 am »
Here come the batteries........ and something I'm not sure I read anywhere before at the bottom of the article......

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090813/AUTO01/908130435/GM-Volt-battery-plant-in-Brownstown-Township-will-create-jobs

GM Volt battery plant in Brownstown Township will create jobs
Alisa Priddle / The Detroit News
Brownstown Township -- Production of battery packs for General Motors Co. electric vehicles will begin at a new facility here in the fourth quarter of 2010.

More than 100 advanced technology jobs will be created, packaging the battery cells that will power the Chevrolet Volt and other electric vehicles in GM's lineup.

Company officials and politicians gathered here Thursday morning, in an almost-empty 160,000-square-foot warehouse in an industrial park 14 miles southwest of Detroit to confirm this as the location of the plant.

Advertisement

 The facility will be part of a wholly owned subsidiary of GM called GM Subsystem Manufacturing LLC.

This is where GM workers will weld together T-shaped packs for the lithium ion batteries that will come from LG Chem in South Korea. Eventually LG Chem's U.S. subsidiary, Compact Power Inc., also will build cells in the U.S.

Until the Brownstown facility is operational, Compact Power has been providing battery packs for the prototype Volts GM has been building for testing.

The Volt is slated to go on sale in November 2010. It is an extended-range electric vehicle that can run for 40 miles on electricity, after which a small gasoline engine kicks in to recharge the batteries and allow the car to continue for another 300 miles.

The Volt will be assembled at GM's Hamtramck plant that currently makes Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne large sedans, and the gasoline engines for the car will come from Flint.

GM has said it expects to make about 10,000 Volts in the first year of production and the car is expected to cost about $40,000.

"Developing and producing advanced batteries is a key step in GM's journey to become the leader in electric vehicles," said GM Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson

GM will invest $43 million in the plant and also received $105.9 million in federal grants, part of the $787 billion U.S. economic stimulus measure passed this year.

The investment includes renovation and lease costs, new machinery and equipment and special tooling.

Specialized battery machinery will be all-new -- this will be the first U.S. lithium-ion battery manufacturing plant in the U.S. -- but the rest of the equipment will be transferred from other GM facilities.

Equipment installation is now under way.

The plant will be divided into three areas. The first is battery module pre-assembly where the cells are put in one of three modules that comprise a single battery pack.

The second is the final assembly and testing area.

Finally the battery pack main line is where straps, hoses and electrical connections are attached to the pack and final testing and packaging takes place.

GM also got funding for Volt demonstration fleets, and for a second-generation, rear-wheel electric drive system.
blah blah blah Toyota blah blah blah I feel your pain; you've got a GM, it's worth squat and you owe on it. 

Dude, if the displacment is EXACT, it's not "all new".  The intake is different, the VVT is now on both sets of valves  In the automotive world "all new" often means somewhat different

Offline Leviathan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #151 on: October 10, 2009, 02:05:24 pm »
Chevy celebrates Volt's final pre-production run
Quote
By MARK PHELAN
FREE PRESS AUTO CRITIC

The Chevrolet Volt moved significantly closer to America’s driveways as the last pre-production version of the extended-range electric vehicle rolled out of General Motors’ test-assembly facility in Warren Friday.

Gliding so silently through the factory aisles that quality auditor Shelia Asunto beeped a discreet pedestrian-alert horn to let workers know it was coming, the Volt’s next stop is GM’s Milford proving ground and a career in hostile environments to make sure its electric drivetrain functions in extreme temperatures.

After more than a year of testing cobbled-together car bodies that made the revolutionary Volt look like any other development vehicle, the Volt’s advanced and aerodynamic body gives a hint of why GM thinks it will reshape the automaker’s image and establish Chevrolet as a world leader for advanced technology and environmentally friendly vehicles.

Its spacious interior included novel features like gauges the driver can reconfigure to display different sets of information, a spinning, three-dimensional “Volt” logo on a touch-screen panel, and a green charging light for when it’s plugged in between drives.

Things can change in a year, but it would be very surprising if all those features on the 74th and final preproduction Volt don’t make it to the model that will be sold at Chevrolet dealerships.

“This is our shining moment after all we’ve been through with the bankruptcy this year,” said Andy Pawlaczyk, chairperson of UAW Local 160, which will build the Volt with Local 122 at GM’s Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant. About 20 UAW workers from Detroit-Hamtramck worked alongside the preproduction workers at Warren.

The Volt, which aims to cover 40 miles on battery power alone and travel longer distances with a small onboard gas-powered generator, should reach dealerships in November 2010.

“This is the same kind of work we do on any new car, but it’s got a different purpose,” said Keith Brown, who assembles new vehicles in the preproduction facility. “We want to get off foreign oil. I hope everybody buys the Volt and loves it, and we can push the industry in that direction.”

Recent visits from the British minister of industry and Australia’s prime minister — both of whom want GM to build the Volt in their countries as well as the United States — demonstrate interest far beyond Detroit.

“This gives us so much hope for the future of our plant and General Motors,” said Patrick Marano, an assembly team leader from the Detroit-Hamtramck plant.

An upcoming three-day test drive by GM engineers and senior executives will help identify final issues to resolve before the Volt goes on sale, chief engineer Andy Farah said.


Contact MARK PHELAN at phelan@freepress.com or 313-222-6731.

Offline Leviathan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #152 on: October 12, 2009, 02:36:51 pm »
Transition From Integration to Pre-Production Begins Now: Thousands of Chevy Volts to be Built Early Next Year
Quote
October 12th, 2009 | Posted in: Engineering, Production

As was reported on Friday October 9, GM completed building the last of a total of 74 pre-production Chevy Volts, which were built in the modest-sized pre-production operations facility in GM’s Warren campus. I had the chance to discuss with Volt vehicle line engineer Tony Posawatz what happens now.

Now that these cars are finished what happens next?
Interestingly enough this is probably where the intense work begins. From a build perspective, we won’t build again until early next year in Hamtramck. What we do now is we take the production intent designs that were built up in the integration vehicles and we test the living daylights out of them and continue to do iterations and iterations. A lot of it is software. A lot of it is taking some of the crudeness in fit in the body fits and tighten them up. Although we do it on math, variations occur and flushness and fit come out a little differently then they do on paper.

So we’re now tuning it. And between that time from October of this year and March of next year, we test the vehicle to confirm the production design works, tweak and fix things, and as we tweak and fix things those changes have to be incorporated in the production tooling and those things typically have a longer lead time.

Then the production tooling is in place. Those are the big heavy expensive dyes to stamp the sheet metal. Those are more significant molds and cavities and processes to manufacture plastic parts in high volume. That’s kind of what happens right now. Right now is the testing, problem-solving, refining and putting all that learning into the production tools. Come the March timeframe and we’re running Volts with production tools. And that is still an iteration process or learning process to refine it for what’s going to happen later in the year.

Are you beginning to put hardware into the Hamtramck plant?
Oh yeah, the Hamtramck plant and the battery plant are on a project plan to upgrade themselves to be ready to build in the early 2010 timeframe. So right now there are tools in toolshops being produced and as we find out, we need this or that, we’ll change it on a production tool. That’s the process we’re in.

When you first start building in March what are those vehicles called?
We call them PPVs, pre-production vehicles or validations. We have a couple more “flavors” but those are all flavors of production vehicle that we work through. This is fairly state of the industry, our terminology is a little different, but every manufacturer does these iterations or flavors of vehicles that have the next phase of software.

At some point in time for example the interior parts have a certain graining to them that you do as one of the last things. You put in a little grain into the tool, but once the tool is grained and they have this nice little texture to the plastic parts it’s very hard to change the tool if you have any functional dimensional changes. Later in the Spring we’ll actually grain the parts so that they really look like production and piece the cars together.

Right now things are actually going pretty well.   We have certainly a lot of issues but that’s standard for this type of project and where we are at in the program. Issues are actually a good thing. We know no one is that good to get it spot-on or if the issues don’t properly surface they somehow surface later. If you have a lot of variation in some of the parts, and you don’t see it early enough to try to control it, to get thefir finsihs and execution elements perfect.

PPVs are not saleable?
No, they’re not saleable yet.

So you will build a few hundred of those?
No we build in the two to three thousand range. We’re finalizing that number right now. A lot of that is practicing the processing of that. Ultimately their will be a line rate of many jobs per hour when we do this so you want to get the guys actually practicing in the production environment.

Offline safristi

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #153 on: October 13, 2009, 10:12:07 am »
..Hope those Big ,expensive "DYES" they say they are gonna use to stamp out body parts are ALL GREEN.............with envy......... :rofl:
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline Leviathan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #154 on: October 13, 2009, 12:53:05 pm »
Clarification: GM’s Chevy Volt Build Schedule for 2010
Quote
October 13th, 2009

Some recently published numbers about Volt prototype production volume are inaccurate.

First, though the Detroit Press reported the 74th car was the final Volt prototype built at GM’s pre-production plant in Warren, according to Bob Warner, GMs Director Global Pre-Production Operations, it was actually the 80th.

“The 80 vehicles we built are now entering the next stage of development, which includes a series of crash tests, developmental drives, battery checks, climate tests and other measures we take to make sure the production vehicles meet our high standards,” he said.

Also, we reported that GM is preparing to begin building the next phase of Chevy Volts called pre-production or validation vehicles at the full scale production plant in Hamtramck Michigan next quarter.

Volt vehicle line engineer Tony Posawatz told us GM will build cars in “the two to three thousand range” of volume.

This led some of us to wonder what would become of all those cars if they weren’t saleable, as it seemed a rather high volume for prototypes.

When asked about that, it turned out Mr Posawatz wasn’t referring to PPVs with that number.

“The (PPV) number is much smaller,” he said. “It is easy to get caught up in terminology, certainly less than 100 non-saleable units beginning with PPV’s (will be built).”

Thus once those non-saleable PPVs have been built and the process for building them well understood and the tools for making them completed, GM will begin cranking out final Volts in significant volume.

It is therefore those Volts for sale that GM will build 2000 to 3000 of in the 2010 calendar year.


Offline Roddy

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #155 on: October 13, 2009, 06:26:56 pm »
As a general rule, GM has failed miserably when attempting to pull of anything radically different in the past. I have trouble believing that the volt will be any different from their past attempts but I could be wrong.

Of course even if the volt lives up to the hype GM have created, it still is going to be a money loser for them.

Offline Ice

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #156 on: October 13, 2009, 09:18:36 pm »
I still feel optimistic about this vehicle.  Despite it being GM and despite that this will probably be a low volume vehicle at the start.  Its really about starting somewhere...maybe it'll change their perspective on things.  What GM really needs as a good car is the Cruze.  That has to be competitive and do well... and I don't think its a bad thing that the Cruze and Volt are on the same basic platform.

Long term the Volt is crucial I think... GM has made a lot of hype about it but its a long term strategy (finally) if they can follow it through.  Later on the gas engine gets replaced by hydrogen or something else... but the rest of the powertrain and all of the components are done and by that time probably refined too.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #157 on: October 13, 2009, 09:35:46 pm »
I still feel optimistic about this vehicle.  Despite it being GM and despite that this will probably be a low volume vehicle at the start.  Its really about starting somewhere...maybe it'll change their perspective on things.  What GM really needs as a good car is the Cruze.  That has to be competitive and do well... and I don't think its a bad thing that the Cruze and Volt are on the same basic platform.

Long term the Volt is crucial I think... GM has made a lot of hype about it but its a long term strategy (finally) if they can follow it through.  Later on the gas engine gets replaced by hydrogen or something else... but the rest of the powertrain and all of the components are done and by that time probably refined too.

It might be the price that hurts the Volt more than anything.  $40,000+ USD is ALOT of money for this car..

Offline EV Dan

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #158 on: October 13, 2009, 10:45:00 pm »
I still feel optimistic about this vehicle.  Despite it being GM and despite that this will probably be a low volume vehicle at the start.  Its really about starting somewhere...maybe it'll change their perspective on things.  What GM really needs as a good car is the Cruze.  That has to be competitive and do well... and I don't think its a bad thing that the Cruze and Volt are on the same basic platform.

Long term the Volt is crucial I think... GM has made a lot of hype about it but its a long term strategy (finally) if they can follow it through.  Later on the gas engine gets replaced by hydrogen or something else... but the rest of the powertrain and all of the components are done and by that time probably refined too.

It might be the price that hurts the Volt more than anything.  $40,000+ USD is ALOT of money for this car..

Less $10,000 in Ontario, so if nicely equipped not a bad bargain. On the other hand I suspect the Leaf will cost less to make and with a good battery lease scheme may steal the market from the Volt. Besides the price another reason for that may be that Volt is a one way per charge car, meaning for many ppl around here who drive daily from Toronto to Oakville or similar distances on the way back the car will be just a hybrid, and prolly a noisy one with preset generator RPMs; while Leaf in many cases will be good for a round trip with plenty of juice left. Time will tell.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Production Volt
« Reply #159 on: October 13, 2009, 10:51:01 pm »

Less $10,000 in Ontario, so if nicely equipped not a bad bargain. On the other hand I suspect the Leaf will cost less to make and with a good battery lease scheme may steal the market from the Volt. Besides the price another reason for that may be that Volt is a one way per charge car, meaning for many ppl around here who drive daily from Toronto to Oakville or similar distances on the way back the car will be just a hybrid, and prolly a noisy one with preset generator RPMs; while Leaf in many cases will be good for a round trip with plenty of juice left. Time will tell.

And?  Even with $10K rebate, it's still $15K or so more than a hybrid or good diesel.  Hard to justify the cost IMO....And like you said...if the Leaf is $25K before any rebates...it's already $15K cheaper...again, hard to justify.