Topic: Should the Saturn Astra have been a Cadillac instead?

[Zoo]

I know this might sound a bit odd considering Cadillac's return to RWD cars over the past 5 years or so.

The thing is I passed a beautiful Audi A3 on my way to Hamilton today and I thought to myself how well the Saturn Astra stacked up to this car in proportions and in many ways in driving dynamics also.

Considering Lutz's recent whining about how they are losing money on the Astra then perhaps having this car be a Cadillac would have made more sense. They could have loaded it up even more the turbocharged 2.0L mill and adding navi as standard. This would have made a great intro into Cadillac and would allow them to bring this car in at a profit.

Just some weird musings on my part. What say you?

[rrocket]

Take a couple more tokes, and pass.  Puff, puff, pass!   

[sailor723]

No,I can see his point. As people start turning to smaller,more fuel efficient cars it makes sense for the luxury marques to move in the same direction.

[Zoo]

Exactly!

Audi has the A3, MB has the "B" class now and so on. Just a weird thought that came into my head that would have made an interesting scenario.

As it is I fear that the Astra might become an orphan in a few years and it will have been a wonderful opportunity that was lost.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

 

[rrocket]

Exactly!

Audi has the A3, MB has the "B" class now and so on. Just a weird thought that came into my head that would have made an interesting scenario.

As it is I fear that the Astra might become an orphan in a few years and it will have been a wonderful opportunity that was lost.

But GM/Caddy people are the same one's who call the Lexus ES350 "just a Camry".  Could they live with themselves knowing they're driving "only an Astra"? 

[Zoo]

I guess I'm out of whack on this one. Too bad GM couldn't have brought this vehicle in with lower landed costs. If the vehicle proves fairly reliable it could be like a "poor man's Saab" with some fun quirkiness to it (e.g. 24 hr clock) while being fairly reliable.

Might make a great used car deal for me in a few years when it is time to replace the Civic. 5 door XR please! Maybe mod the engine a bit to get the HP over 150 and away I go!

[vdk]

Exactly!

Audi has the A3, MB has the "B" class now and so on. Just a weird thought that came into my head that would have made an interesting scenario.

As it is I fear that the Astra might become an orphan in a few years and it will have been a wonderful opportunity that was lost.

I want a bimmer.... 

[random006]

Anybody remember the "Cadillac Cimaron"?  OK, now ask the thread's title question again.  

[Zoo]

Not a a fair comparison. The Cimaron was the awful Pontiac J2000 with some doodads on it. I am talking about bringing a European car over and putting an upmarket engine into it (e.g. 2.0 L turbo) with navi, leather, etc. Make the car compete against the Audi A3 amongst others.

[APSCORADIALES]

"...Should the Saturn Astra have been a Cadillac instead?..."

Nope.
Should have remained an Opel Astra.
And Saturn should be killed off.

[random006]

Not a a fair comparison. The Cimaron was the awful Pontiac J2000 with some doodads on it. I am talking about bringing a European car over and putting an upmarket engine into it (e.g. 2.0 L turbo) with navi, leather, etc. Make the car compete against the Audi A3 amongst others.

It is a fair comparison.  To make an Astra - or any other transplant - a Caddy would require sufficient work both under and outside the hood as to make it not feasible.  To be a Cadillac requires that the whole look and feel meets the Cadillac mold, not merely performance.  The Cimarron was an example of failing to meet that burden.  The Astra just doesn't fit.  You're better off starting from scratch with a new design.

[Zoo]

Well,

 I guess my idea was half baked. A lot of us whine that we don't get the cool European cars enough and that GM and Ford should bring their Euro products over. Here is a car brought over pretty much intact (a diesel would have been cool) and it is dying on the vine sales wise.

  The Astra is a decent car (a friend of mine has one) and deserves a better fate. Oh well, it will make a great used buy in the coming years and will be a car fondly remembered by some.

 Is the Saturn Astra the next Merkur?

[Calbrez]

Most of the "luxury" cars in europe would be considered sub-compacts or compacts here in gas-guzzling NA

[toolatecrew]

First I agree with most that the answer is no and also remeber the Cimmaron. Also they had anoth transplanted Opel sedan as a Caddy that also was a sales flop. Its pretty difficult to have a FWD subcompact under a luxury brand especially one that's as long established as Caddy. They want to compete with BMW 540 etc with the CTS. The Astra doesn't compete with the A3 overseas does it? If you were to soup up an Astra you would compete with GTI maybe the CSX but not an A3 (BTW as much as I like the A4 I think its a poor value ).

As for the people asking for the cool Euro cars and then seeing the Asta fail.

I don't rember people asking for the Astra. I know people have asked for the Euro Focus. I think what would have been good would be to make the Astra a Chev or Pontiac if need be. Put it in the mainstream mass market. Problem is they couldn't price it like  Cobalt. Price is key in this segment.

1. The Saturn is about 1000 more to start than a comperable Civic DX or Mazda 3 GX. Add to this GM getting out of leasing and Saturn's fixed pricing it adds up to more money in a class where cost is key.
2. That extra 1000 plus dollars gets you essentially 3 extra features a block heater, cruise and heated mirrors. Simply not high profile items.
3. While it has many positve qualities in terms of ride and drive it is the heviest of the 3, has the weakest engine and the worst fuel economy. Not exactly anything to brag about.

I have not driven 1 but I've also read it is very short geared and very buzzy on the highway.

If you have a higher price people expect more performance and they don't get it. People also don't associate Saturn with a european car. they assoociate it with plastic panels and no haggle price.

Probaly what they should have done is turff Saab and Saturn (which are often in the same building) and turn them into Opel dealers with the Astra as the entry level car.

[initial_D]

Caddy rebaged an Opel Omega a few years back, called it Catera, the Caddy that zig zags. Think it was a failure. Doing the same thing again won't work.

[Mitlov]

I know this might sound a bit odd considering Cadillac's return to RWD cars over the past 5 years or so.

The thing is I passed a beautiful Audi A3 on my way to Hamilton today and I thought to myself how well the Saturn Astra stacked up to this car in proportions and in many ways in driving dynamics also.

Considering Lutz's recent whining about how they are losing money on the Astra then perhaps having this car be a Cadillac would have made more sense. They could have loaded it up even more the turbocharged 2.0L mill and adding navi as standard. This would have made a great intro into Cadillac and would allow them to bring this car in at a profit.

Just some weird musings on my part. What say you?

Great idea.  Wrong brand.  I mean, you want an upscale FWD turbocharged hatchback from GM?  It's a no-brainer.  SAAB.  Let Cadillac stick with RWD sedans and blingin' SUVs.

In fact, you're a half-step behind GM.  GM has already announced that the next-generation 9-3 will be built on the Astra platform, as opposed to the larger Vectra platform used by the current 9-3.

Here's how I'd configure the next-generation 9-3.  Three trim levels:

(1)  Saab 9-3 Eco:  FWD, 3-door or 5-door hatchbacks and 4-door sedan, 140-hp small-displacement turbocharged engine from the upcoming Chevy Cruze.

(2)  Saab 9-3 Aero:  FWD or optional XWD, 3-door or 5-door hatchbacks and 4-door sedan, 260-hp 2.0L turbo from the Solstice GXP and Cobalt SS Turbo.

(3)  Saab 9-3 Black Turbo:  XWD, 3-Door, 300+ hp twin-turbo engine with as many cylinders fit in an Astra.

As for how to make the Saturn Astra profitable as an economy car, they should follow the Jetta model.  Design it in Germany but build it in Mexico.  And offer the sedan version (already available in Europe) to boost US sales.

[random006]

Well,

 I guess my idea was half baked. A lot of us whine that we don't get the cool European cars enough and that GM and Ford should bring their Euro products over. Here is a car brought over pretty much intact (a diesel would have been cool) and it is dying on the vine sales wise.

  The Astra is a decent car (a friend of mine has one) and deserves a better fate. Oh well, it will make a great used buy in the coming years and will be a car fondly remembered by some.

 Is the Saturn Astra the next Merkur?

You're confusing two issues.  Just because the Astra is a great car and a great idea does not mean it's a great car and idea for every brand in the GM stable.  I like the Astra - as a Saturn.  I don't see how it fits as a Cadillac.  Let's be clear on that particular point.

[Zombie]

This is GM we are taking about. The Astra can be both a Cadi and a Saturn!! All you have to do is move the body panels around and ta-da a new model.

[Mitlov]

Saab, people, Saab.  GM should, and is going to, sell the next-generation Astra in tarted-up form as a 9-3.

This is GM we are taking about. The Astra can be both a Cadi and a Saturn!! All you have to do is move the body panels around and ta-da a new model.

Yeah, as opposed to the Camry/ES, Land Cruiser/LX, 4Runner/GX, Accord/TL, Highlander/RX, Fusion/MKZ, GTI/A3, etc...lots of companies tart up mass-market models and call them luxury cars.